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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/27/2007 2:26:47 PM   
MisstressNboytoy


Posts: 34
Joined: 5/6/2007
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I think the bottom line is that you can always find someone who is going to disagree with your point of view. If it's something you enjoy doing (as long as it is safe and consensual) then don't let someone else tell you it is "wrong". I don't agree at all that switches think it is all about them and can't really get into sessions as either submissives or dominants. It's almost like saying you can't be bisexual...and I think the vast majority of people find themselves somewhere inbetween heterosexual and homosexual and not just strictly 100% one or the other (though maybe some of us don't admit it).

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/27/2007 4:12:26 PM   
Suleiman


Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
 It would be unkind to keep him in my collar and insist he choose one (SUB or DOM) over the other.  I'd be a poor partner.  I don't think submissively and I can't fake it (for me, I would HAVE to fake it- do not take this as me saying switches fake it).  Neither are a "role" for me.  I can't drop one and be another.  I'm a control freak, plain and simple.


Then you concede that in fact there is perference, and then there is the way a person is? From your earlier posts, I rather had gotten the impression that it was all a matter of preference. Isn't that your objection to switches?

To me, everything is simply a role, a fact which I have stated time and again. As I said before, I don't truly understand monosexuality. Except as a role-playing experiment, I can not concieve of being locked absolutely into one mode of being. I am who I am. I can not deny my nature any more than you can. What offends me is the bull-headed insistance that I occasionally encounter that I am not in fact wired this way, that it is a choice, a preference.

Now, please keep in mind, I do not use the term role to signify unreality. More often then not, if someone is offended by my perspective, they appear to think i have somehow declaired what they do, how they live, what they feel and experience to be 'fake'. It is an easy mistake to make. I try to use very precise semantics, but the nature of the English language is intrinsically imprecise, utilising poetic allusion rather than technical description. I simply reiterate, time and again, that the role is not the person. In my peculiar and chimerical state of being, whom I relate to is far more important that what the nature of the relationship is. Relationships change. Given a long enough span of time, all things change.

I am a control freak. Personally, I feel it makes me a better submissive - although, of course, the nature of the submission does not appeal to all. Nothing any of us do appeals to everyone, as you yourself has stated. I am strong enough, sufficiently in control of myself, that I can will myself to do things that are distasteful. I am strong enough to serve, even if my dominant is too weak to command. By the same token, I have had so many long term relationships with dominants who were, by my perspective, intrinsically weak, incapable of controling themselves, that i feel I am now a very good dominant, if perhaps not so exemplary as a sadist. I am very good at reinforcing another person's emotional state, lending them the strength and security they need to do whatever it is that is required of them. Once again, it is not a style that appeals to everyone, but it works for me, and it works for my partners.

The argument that irks me more than anything else is the insistance some monosexuals cling to that I don't know who I am. If I did, they posit, I wouldn't keep switching sides. It's a very monosexual viewpoint. I have encountered similar arguments from gays who claim I'm really straight because I'm married, or who claim that I'm in the closet because I'm married. Straight people say I'm confused because I occasionally snuggle up with guys, although thank god no one has been sufficiently gauche to claim that it's just a phase recently. I think the few strands of grey in my mustache and hair disabuse them of the idea that it is a passing fancy, so the only other equation they can come up with is that I don't really like girls at all, but I'm too scared to come out of the closet yet.

This difference in perspective is, I think, at the core of the OP's initial comment, and why your initial insights were met with some antagonism, both from myself and others. For the most part, I have no problem with other people being convinced that I am confused, or that I am lacking in self-awareness, or that it is just a phase, or that I'm just some party boy out for a good time. I have no problem with these attitudes because I'm not going out and trying to get laid. I don't need validation from the rest of the local community. I'm quite happily set up and don't expect that to change any time soon. For many of the people who come here to complain about the lack of support they recieve in their community, they do need that support, and they do need that validation. Even if you've made a conscious decision to fly your freak flag openly, it still is a hurtful thing to turn to what is supposed to be your peer group and face rejection and possible ostracism, unless you toe some indefinable line and cease to be yourself.

You can't switch. I can't fix myself in one state of being. I don't mind your lack of interest, but I do mind if you tell me that I am wrong for being who I am. thick skin or not, no one likes that sort of rejection.

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/27/2007 6:36:52 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
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From: Domme Emeritus
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Dear Suleiman.

What you should have noted and taken from my initial post was this taht I wrote:

Everyone has needs and desires.. and some needs and desires just don't mesh with other'sI don't feel that one should NOT switch, by all means, switch you little hearts out, but please be upfront about it.  I say this because, what if you are in "dom" mode one evening and a submissive (who is not a switch) you are playing with falls hard for you and you decide you want a collared slave.  Then she might see you (whom she believed to be a Dom) subbing to a Mistress, would she be entitled to be disillusioned?  Can she depend on you to perform as her dominant outside of play activities?  Could she bear watching her Master be on his knees and humiliated by a Domme or drinking her piss or even simply begging for a beating?







_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to Suleiman)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/27/2007 7:47:37 PM   
sadomasokisti


Posts: 221
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Iceland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Dear Suleiman.

What you should have noted and taken from my initial post was this taht I wrote:

Everyone has needs and desires.. and some needs and desires just don't mesh with other'sI don't feel that one should NOT switch, by all means, switch you little hearts out, but please be upfront about it.  I say this because, what if you are in "dom" mode one evening and a submissive (who is not a switch) you are playing with falls hard for you and you decide you want a collared slave.  Then she might see you (whom she believed to be a Dom) subbing to a Mistress, would she be entitled to be disillusioned?  Can she depend on you to perform as her dominant outside of play activities?  Could she bear watching her Master be on his knees and humiliated by a Domme or drinking her piss or even simply begging for a beating?



I totally agree with you LotusSong about being upfront with who you are.  But there are lot of submissives (even here on collarme.com) who have no problem with their Mistresses or Masters submitting to other partners or even them selves on occations.  I have swithced roles many times on the same evening, even with the same partner in the same session.  It all depends on the nature of the relationship and the people involved.

_____________________________


Pain is good. Extreme pain is extremely good

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/28/2007 2:22:52 AM   
ExquisiteFeline


Posts: 124
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phin

The comment was made at a social I attended that that particular dom did not understand how one could switch. he seemed quite condesinding toward switches. Why are we looked upon with such negitive light in a community where understanding is preached so loudly?


< Message edited by ExquisiteFeline -- 6/28/2007 3:02:57 AM >

(in reply to Phin)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/28/2007 2:39:50 AM   
ExquisiteFeline


Posts: 124
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opps, just learned the site...
"Why are we wrong?"

Dont be so self disrespecting, that is silly...
If you feel you are right about who you are why are you questioning it?
This is supposed to be a community where one can feel free about who they are with out judgement, am I right?
Human nature, sexuality, psychology works in a multitude of ways... some people prefer to be in the extremes, whether they are hardwired that way or conditioned. Like Straight/gay, Dom/sub, vanilla/twisted... I like to control my equalizer, depending on the tunes, while others use a pre-set. Some people find a role they feel safe in, while others want to step outside the safebox, and some just completely understand who they are, if they be Dom, Switch, sub, or slave. There is no right and wrong in the world, it depends how you limit yourself. Having said that, I personally am on this planet to explore every aspect of my being... why would I limit myself?
What are the infinite possibilities of who I am?
Of course that would challenge a Dominant, and of course some of them are condescending, you have submitted to him by questioning yourself!
Take pride in yourself and dont beat yourself up over it, I get the feeling you may actually be a sub and I would be happy to give you a good flogging over this if that is what you need ;)
Goddess

< Message edited by ExquisiteFeline -- 6/28/2007 3:01:00 AM >


_____________________________

Below every Good Man is a Dominant woman, willing to fall at his feet.

(in reply to ExquisiteFeline)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/28/2007 10:01:11 AM   
Suleiman


Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
Dear Suleiman.
What you should have noted and taken from my initial post was this taht I wrote:
Everyone has needs and desires.. and some needs and desires just don't mesh with other'sI don't feel that one should NOT switch, by all means, switch you little hearts out, but please be upfront about it.  I say this because, what if you are in "dom" mode one evening and a submissive (who is not a switch) you are playing with falls hard for you and you decide you want a collared slave.  Then she might see you (whom she believed to be a Dom) subbing to a Mistress, would she be entitled to be disillusioned?  Can she depend on you to perform as her dominant outside of play activities?  Could she bear watching her Master be on his knees and humiliated by a Domme or drinking her piss or even simply begging for a beating?


Dear Lotussong - I apologise for missing that point in your initial post (there is an awful lot of material to keep track of in this thread now), but it does return us to our original topic, does it not? Again, I can only speak from my own personal perspective, just as you yourself can only speak from your own experience. I never had a problem, when I was an owned and collared slave, seeing my Mistress being beaten, or knowing that she was going to some party and would be subbing for the majority of the evening. I did gleek a little when she asked me to top her, but that was more from inexperience and the insecurity that comes with it than an unwillingness to make the attempt. Even so, I happen to have the rate good fortune to have come into my own in a small subset of the SF community that actively embraced switching as a lifestyle choice. Many people do not.

While it is true that one needs a thick skin in life, one also needs to feel as if there is some community to offer support. Many switches find that if they are open about their preference, they are marginalized. This is at the core of a great many of the gripe threads that crop up on this particular forum. The OP wanted to know why we are looked upon in such a negative light. You did your best to shed light on how switches are viewed, and the rest of this debate came up from that. The difficulty comes in the second part of his question - why does this happen in a community that makes such a big deal about open-mindedness?

In your second post, you made the comment (which of course drew immediate inflammatory ire from others in the forum) about how switches take so much offense that they are not everyone's cup of tea. Once again, I submit, that is not actually the source of the ire. I have never taken umbrage at not being considered a suitable partner or bedfellow. I take umbrage at the idea that, because I am a switch, I am somehow incapable of having a meaningful relationship. That is, and remains, the center of my argument, and I believe it is indicitive of a great many other's outrage as well. You decry the "obvious" 'it's all about me' attitude that you percieve switches to have. Frankly, "Its all about me" covers the vast majority of the human race. As Sadomasokisti points out, there is just as much egotism coming from the monosexual viewpoints, but they are not immediately decried for it. In fact, when a submissive is upbraided by some would-be dominant for acknowledging that they have needs, including needs of the ego, which need to be met (A terribly un-submissive stance, in some people's books), the rest of the forum promptly shouts down the offending dominant, and tells the poor little frail that it is okay to have wants and needs. I have thus far never seen the same opinionated troll get told off for telling a switch that he or she is deluded, that they are running from their true nature, or that their prior dominant was weak (or else the submissive would never have acquired delusions of beind dominant themselves) - save, of course, by any switches in the room.

It is this rampant marginalization to which I object, to which I have objected, and to which a great many of us object. If you find your insights arousing ire from others on this forum, it comes from the fact that you seem to suggest, in a most reasonable voice, that perhaps the troll in question was right. You seem to suggest that perhaps we are wrong, that we can not have a stable relationship, that we are only in this for a quick fling, a little party time, and nothing more.

I know that I am not unique. I have had rare good fortune to have found a community which not only pays lip service to diversity, but actually embraces it. My rare fortune comes only from an accident of providence - My family moved to the bay area, and so I came of age within spitting distance of San Francisco. If my family had remained in New Mexico or Oklahoma, where I spent my childhood, I would most likely have blown my brains out years ago. How many switches have been forced to live a lie because of this social marginalization? How many left the leather scene behind because, despite their deep-seated need for dominance AND submission, they were convinced by some opinionated ass that they could never have a stable relationship until they pick a side and stick with it? How many have given up in disgust and just walked away?

This outrage has a point. So long as switches remain silent, we remain marginalized. Every time some ass opines sagaciously on the inherent inferiority of switching, we are honor-bound to stand up and defend ourselves, if for no other reason than to remain a visible presence, so that other switches know that they are not alone. The human being is an inherently social animal. We instinctively form tribes. Ostracism and isolation are two of the most devestating punishments that can be leveled against any human being. I'll keep flying me freak flag proudly, and occasionally make an ass of myself in the doing, so that other switches don't succumb to the despair of solitude.

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/28/2007 10:08:43 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phin
Why are we looked upon with such negitive light in a community where understanding is preached so loudly?

There are men out there who dont understand how a woman can be Domme. There are men out there who dont understand how a man can be sub. Its always something.

For me, I do not like to play with switches for one simple reason. I know they are not going to be completely fulfilled with what we share.  If someone is happy switching and can find a partner that does the same, then I am happy for them.

It isnt for everyone, but there are always those that will look down on someone that does things differently than they do.

Ignore them, and find what you want.
DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Phin)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/28/2007 10:50:21 AM   
Trampler


Posts: 580
Joined: 12/31/2006
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I consider myself a Dominant switch. Meaning that while most of the time I prefer being dominant, I sometimes enjoy submitting.  I always tell people that I chat with (especially from here, so they can check out both my profiles.) about my switchyness.  I always ask if they are ok with that idea.  I make it clear to them that if it is a problem we won't be playing much if at all.  And also if they switch themselves, doesn't necessarily mean I will let them dominate me.  I am searching for a Mistress.  I do not want to top my Mistress,( If I am ordered to do so, I will, but would prefer not to.) could I handle seeing her be topped or Dommed by someone else? I like to think so. 

_____________________________

I want to step ALL over you!

Our Community may be openminded as a whole, BUT it is made up of indivduals who bring in their own baggage,perceptions and agendas

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/28/2007 12:05:03 PM   
Suleiman


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Joined: 9/9/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire
There are men out there who dont understand how a woman can be Domme. There are men out there who dont understand how a man can be sub. Its always something.


Yes, exactly. It's always something. The point is, while you can't stop the idiots from being idiots, if you are a male sub in a predominantly femsub community (for instance), you will feel marginalized, and anyone who steps forward and asserts that it can be so helps to ward off that sense of isolation. The argument itself is a helpful act, in that some people need to know that they are not a unique anomaly, and that there are other people looking for the same sorts of thing.

Okay, so my radical queer roots are showing, but I feel it's true: Silence equals Death. If you remain silent, you may be able to live your own life free of adversity, but you will also help to encourage the destruction of someone else's well-being. By keeping silent, you are tacitly subscribing to the idiot's viewpoint, and that may prove to be the psychological downfall to some other person who is not so secure as yourself.

Not being interested in a switch is one thing. Declairing that switching is wrong, or misguided, or self-deception, is something else entirely. You don't have to be turned on by it, just accept that someone else is, and every so often, offer a little support to someone who might otherwise be alone, confused, and hurt by all the idiots out there who would place themselves upon the grand pedestal of absolute authority, fallacious though that pedestal may be.

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/28/2007 3:14:06 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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Question:
 
When I was in the club scene.. I noted the Het FemDommes and het male subs were on the bottom of the feeding chain so to speak.  My solution was to take the initiative and create a group just for that faction    I was a lot happier to be out of the "great lie" (i.e. Kommunity is all accepting and all wise).
 
What keeps the switch community from forming their own alliance?  I know when I'm not happy I do something about it.  You can't change human nature but you can take care of each other and  educate by example.  Make people curious about you enough to where they want to interact with you more.  Lamenting your situation and $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee in Phoenix,

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to Suleiman)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/28/2007 7:39:43 PM   
Suleiman


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Like I said - I more or less came into my own in a community much like that. However, once again, a visible presence is helpful for folks just coming into the scene. Out here in the bay area, these days at least, pangender omnisexual type groups are easy to find, and there are informal kaffeklatsche type affairs as well. That wasn't always the case. Back when I was coming into the scene, our little group was very much running contrary to the status quo of the time. Brave souls opted to stand up and refuse to be marginalized by the traditional leather community. I am as laughably well adjusted as I am because somebody stood up and asserted their switchiness, and got together with other switchy types.  

I agree that sitting around lamenting the situation isn't very helpful, but for some folks, it's all they can think to do. Its why we need fora like this one - so that someone can come here, plunk down their two-fiddy, and find out they're not the only ones. And yeah, it means that the same thread is going to be repeated ad nauseum. It needs to keep being repeated so that the folks on the fringe can find out that they're not alone, and maybe even get the chance to hook up with some like minded folks.

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/29/2007 12:16:41 AM   
themischievous1


Posts: 151
Joined: 4/3/2005
From: San Antonio, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

For me, I do not like to play with switches for one simple reason. I know they are not going to be completely fulfilled with what we share.  If someone is happy switching and can find a partner that does the same, then I am happy for them.


Why couldn't a switch individual be completely happy with what you share? Are you thinking that because the switch has the capability of being both dominant and submissive that they can't settle down with someone they fall in love with and live happily ever after with said individual? Are you thinking they couldn't be happy in a long term or even temporary relationship with one who was only either dom or sub?

Therein lies the problem with these many stereotypes switches have to contend with. Switches simply cannot be sterotyped into the box anymore than bisexuals, submissives, dominants, tops, bottoms, slaves, masters, or anyone else for that matter. There are too many exceptions to the rule to stereotype a whole group into a box. It's a problem whenever you label and stereotype any group. There are just too many people who aren't going to fit, who color outside of the lines!

I'm one such person. I can be quite happy in a relationship with a submissive or a dominant, depending upon how accepted I am for who I am (which is one with dom and sub characteristics, traits, and tendencies.) As long as that is accepted, we're good. It doesn't mean I have to act out as a domme if my significant other is a dom and isn't comfortable with being dommed. If they're not okay with that, so be it. I can be completely monogamous and remain happily submissive in that relationship if that individual is whom I've chosen to commit and submit to. No big deal. It's the person I value and what we can share together I care about most.

Unless I'm mistaken and perceiving this wrong I'm reading you to be saying that a switch can't really be happy with just one orientation that a sig other desires they embrace in a ltr. I disagree. I bet most switches could be happy if they were just accepted and respected for who they are in general and allowed to just be that without all the supposition and assumptions.

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/29/2007 10:46:40 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: themischievous1

Unless I'm mistaken and perceiving this wrong I'm reading you to be saying that a switch can't really be happy with just one orientation that a sig other desires they embrace in a ltr. I disagree. I bet most switches could be happy if they were just accepted and respected for who they are in general and allowed to just be that without all the supposition and assumptions.

 
(Note:  I really hate this thread's title.  I don't feel it's wrong and my posts here are for discussion of the "other" sides thoughts)
 
Maybe I can help. When we hear switches say "I can be both, I enjoy both, being both is what I am and it fullfills me", those of us with a single orentation feel that we could not do you justice (so to speak) unless we have an open relationship for you, at least that is how I feel. 
 
Some of us are wired that way.  We aren't "ignorant and closeminded", we just aren't interested. 
 
I like switches (I hear they taste like chicken).  I just don't want to own one :) 
 
Somewhere down the road you might start to miss the old days where you were able to "go the the buffet", so we just avoid that possible and heartbreak.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to themischievous1)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/29/2007 6:25:25 PM   
nydeviant


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interesting conversation! thought I'd jump in here and give a bit of my own experience...

I came into the scene as a bottom. (I personally differentiate between bottoming and submitting..YMMV)  My top at the time had other, submissive partners, and let me try my hand at topping them...I found that I get just as much satisfaction from being the one weilding the whip as I do from being the one on the receiving end. 

I can definitely see how a dominant (or submissive) person might not like to own/play/whatever with a switch as there could be the feeling of not being able to fulfill all their needs, or that they are only sometimes in that role, especially if it's more than just a single scene or session.  I for one, could never happily see myself with someone who couldn't at least be comfortable with my need to beat AND be beaten (I'm much more an S/M person than a D/s person)  I think, ultimately, it would be a very unsatisfying relationship for everyone.

Happily, for me, my partner is a switch as well.  Sometimes he beats me, sometimes I beat him, sometimes we co-top to one of our friends, sometimes we co-bottom.

Of course, since I'm bisexual and non-monogamous, maybe I just can't make up my mind afterall....that, or I'm just really fucking greedy :D

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/29/2007 7:58:30 PM   
Suleiman


Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong 
Somewhere down the road you might start to miss the old days where you were able to "go the the buffet", so we just avoid that possible and heartbreak.


May as well say that a person is incapable of monogamy at all, then. Anybody can miss the buffet - only some of us like to range through every table, while others stick to the prime rib or the salad bar.

There comes a time when a person decides that they have met the one for them. That person is more important to them than all the cheap thrills and fast dates (and in some cases hot, kinky sex) that they could have had - but which were, and are, completely unfulfilling because they lack that depth of intimacy that comes with a true partnership.

My wife is, at best, only marginally kinky. When we first met, she believed herself to be kinkier than she really is, because she was one of the kinkiest people she knew. What she was, and is, is very open-minded. Well, that, and pretty thoroughly non-monogamous.

I am, by my nature, in equal measure sadistic and masochistic, dominant and submissive. I am not, by my nature, promiscuous or even polyamorous. I have had to make concessions to nearly every lover I have ever had in this regard, but at best, I am barely poly-fidelitous.

My wife, on the other hand, hasn't got a monogamous bone in her body. After years of experimentation, she has been forced to concede that she is in no way shape or form masochistic, and not very dominant, either. She has discovered that she enjoys bondage and submission, and can be coaxed into occasional light sadism.

So, if our marriage were based on any of these things, it would not work. By your (all too common) logic, I could not find my marriage to her very fulfilling. She hasn't even got a penis, for crying out loud! (Well, okay, that at least can be taken care of).

Marriage is more than that. Partnership is more than that. One person for ever and ever amen is a crappy arrangement if all that's involved is a sexual dynamic. There has to be something more - and if there IS something more, some true underpinning that forms the basis of a real partnership, then the exact nature of the relationship dynamic becomes an almost secondary consideration.

Yes, if your tastes vary widely from your partner, you may have to make some concessions to them. Any partnership requires concessions - whether it's the grudging acknowledgement that your partner has a professional career that takes them away for fourteen hours a day six days a week, or the realization that your partner has needs that you can not entirely fulfill. The partnership stands, because the person is more important than the role they play. Husband, wife, slave, owner, lover, trainer, whatever - who they are is more important than what they are. Cupid's little joke on humankind is that you love whom you love, and there is no way around it.

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/30/2007 12:04:28 AM   
Tenebrious


Posts: 101
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: right behind you
Status: offline
I'm just going to pop in and add my two cents, hopefully without getting dragged into a lengthy debate.  :)

I like the idea of polyamory, I'm not exclusively attracted to women and my preference for either the dominant or submissive position varies all the way from one extreme to the other, depending on what kind of mood I'm in.

However, I was able to be happy in (of all things) a strictly monogamous, vanilla relationship for almost 4 years before she decided that she couldn't ever be truly happy, because I was "just too weird" and she was embarassed by it.

Just like kinky doesn't mean unscrupulous, bisexual doesn't mean confused and polyamorous doesn't mean promiscuous, switching doesn't mean one is incapable of happiness in a single specific role.  Sure, there are some switches that feel that way, but there are also some that feel the person is more important than the position.

(in reply to Suleiman)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/30/2007 12:44:44 AM   
satyrne07


Posts: 19
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
Have you noticed that the only folks who could "reasonably" and passionately believe that allowing gays to marry would destroy the institution of marriage is that small portion of the population who are so scared to death of even considering the possibility that being gay might be okay with society, because if it was they know deep down they wouldn't be in a heterosexual relationship?  They have to block the possibility absolutely for everyone in order to stabilize their own position.

That's what I immediately see whenever I encounter some absolute claim of pure and innate dominance.  Everything is on a continuum and it's a circle to boot.  If a Dom/me claims pure invincibility, it must be what they need, if they get in my space and claim it makes them inherently superior to live a strict and uniform life I think three things: #1 if You were worth revering, I would already respect You, if You have to convince me, not so much #2 If You can't imagine anything or anyone in the world You would recognize and fall to Your knees to celebrate then Your Universe is too small and petty and #3 Anyone who claims that they are purely Dominant in every relationship and would prefer to sever the relationship or die before relinquishing power is ALREADY A SWITCH, having come from some experience of being so powerless they have had their fill of a lifetime and can't bear to go near the thought.

All of which is just fine. I personally don't understand chosing roles before meeting the person...Seems like showing up to a game where you decide the final score before you play.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/30/2007 4:52:35 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: satyrne07

Have you noticed that the only folks who could "reasonably" and passionately believe that allowing gays to marry would destroy the institution of marriage is that small portion of the population who are so scared to death of even considering the possibility that being gay might be okay with society, because if it was they know deep down they wouldn't be in a heterosexual relationship?  They have to block the possibility absolutely for everyone in order to stabilize their own position.

That's what I immediately see whenever I encounter some absolute claim of pure and innate dominance.  Everything is on a continuum and it's a circle to boot.  If a Dom/me claims pure invincibility, it must be what they need, if they get in my space and claim it makes them inherently superior to live a strict and uniform life I think three things: #1 if You were worth revering, I would already respect You, if You have to convince me, not so much #2 If You can't imagine anything or anyone in the world You would recognize and fall to Your knees to celebrate then Your Universe is too small and petty and #3 Anyone who claims that they are purely Dominant in every relationship and would prefer to sever the relationship or die before relinquishing power is ALREADY A SWITCH, having come from some experience of being so powerless they have had their fill of a lifetime and can't bear to go near the thought.

All of which is just fine. I personally don't understand chosing roles before meeting the person...Seems like showing up to a game where you decide the final score before you play.



This post elicits a Scooby-DO  WTF "ah..roooooOOOO???  But I have to admire your tap dancing :)
 
Aren't you glad I'm not on your list of options? Just be happy with your preference as I'm content with mine.  I'm not saying anyone is WRONG.  The poor guy who posted the OP wanted to know whatssup with it all and as usual, the switch community gets huffy and makes everyone who doesn't switch "wrong" and pat each other on their backs because they feel they are so "special". 
 
People come to forums like this to ask questions and get different opinions.  I gave him mine from my experiences. 
 
BTW, the group I started with was approximately 80% switch.  I was totally saturated with the concept for 3 years.  I was not for me.  Plain and simple.  If it's for you- be happy and stop being so damned defensive people.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to satyrne07)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/30/2007 6:13:23 PM   
Tenebrious


Posts: 101
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: right behind you
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
The poor guy who posted the OP wanted to know whatssup with it all and as usual, the switch community gets huffy and makes everyone who doesn't switch "wrong" and pat each other on their backs because they feel they are so "special". 

Haven't you heard?  It's not a "community."  
Hell, 90% of the switches here (myself included) "only refer to themselves as switches, because they don't totally fit any other classification"

I know I never said that I was "special" or that anybody else was wrong, just because I'm a switch and they're not.

The OP issue, as I understood, was curiosity about why switches were generally regarded with such distain.  Personally, I don't experience such outside of the "ask a switch" forum.  Of course, I look kinda intimidating, so it may be that people just don't want to offend me in person...
quote:


People come to forums like this to ask questions and get different opinions.  I gave him mine from my experiences. 

and some of us do actually appreciate that you were able to be so candid about your views.  There is a point, though, when exchange of ideas becomes arguing - that goes for the switch respondents as well. 
quote:


BTW, the group I started with was approximately 80% switch.  I was totally saturated with the concept for 3 years.  I was not for me.  Plain and simple.  If it's for you- be happy and stop being so damned defensive people.

Who's being defensive here? 

If you want to decide that switches aren't for you, that's fine.  You don't have to defend your position.  I think the main issue is that people inherently feel the need to be accepted by others and you swearing off an entire pseudoclassification makes them feel unwanted.  That and some of us just hate being packed into a neat little box based on a word that we use only for lack of a more accurate term...

Ultimately, you're the one that has to decide what's best for you.  As long as you're happy with what you're doing, who really cares if some people lump you in with a group and question your motives for the choices you make about your own life?  The positive side to that is, all you have to do to prove that you're more mature than them is to not do the same in return.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 40
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