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RE: Why are we wrong? - 7/5/2007 8:31:19 PM   
thetaboosun


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Joined: 2/21/2006
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The problem with humanity is that our tendency is to become slaves to dogma that is based on our own selfish observations of how things ought to be.  A top that hates the switch likely does so because of their tunnel vision as to how a sub should be.  A lot of tops (especially the females dommes I've come to know) are very insecure when it comes to switches, because of their narrow view that a bottom needs to be subservient at all times, weak, etc- all of the things that this particular breed of top has spent a lifetime trying not to be.  The idea that a person they could be dominating could have a stronger and potentially overwhelming constitution just doesn't fly with those kinds of people.  Its "my way or the highway" instead of  "I'll drive halfway, you drive the rest".

On top of that, it is my personal preference, as a switch, to date or scene with other switches.  I have found that, at least in my scene in L.A., the female dommes aren't worth the words they use to compliment themselves.

(in reply to ExquisiteFeline)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Why are we wrong? - 7/6/2007 3:24:05 AM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
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(Fast reply)

Phew! I think what irked me most in what Lotus Song said was her statement that switches do it "only for their amusement". That is SO not me! But then, I don't call myself a switch now, but a Duality ... I am best living both sides of my persona simultaneously. And if current negotiations come to fruition, that may be 24/7 with both Master and My sub sometime in the future. I don't flip-flop back and forth, it just isn't my nature to do so, both responses ... "yes Master" and "please fetch this slave" just flow naturally from me in the same breath without a sense of flip-flopping. And while Master and I did originally start out the other way around, that was situational and once we switched ... it's set now, He Master, me slave! But I do respect the switches who are able to do more whole scale changes and with the same person.

As far as needs not being met ... well, for one thing, it's a rare partnership where ALL the needs of both partners are met by the other. Secondly, Master meets most of the needs of violet (my sub persona) ... no, He's not totally perfect, He's human, so i can't say all. My sub should meet most of the needs of Jay (My Domme persona). Living with both should then make me one very happy person! I don't think Master has the ego that demands that He should meet all the needs of all of me ... He's quite happy knowing that He's gonna get some help! And because He's a contented person in His own right He is not so insecure as to demand all of my time and attention ... He can share with My sub, knowing that He will get priority as that is what the sub agrees to when joining U/us. Obviously I need a sub who is content to be "third" and who is also capable of getting on with things without My constant attention ... I am deliberately seeking one with an appropriate level of self-sufficiency.

In My experience (and I've had previous subs while i've been with Master) ... they have not had a problem seeing me sub to Him. They've mostly been male subs ... and their reaction has usually been "shock and awe" ... when i've taken >100 strokes from Master's large hand ... and they were saying "orange" at 50 from My little paddle! They've appreciated seeing that i can take more than what I dish out ... and that i can obey as well as command their obedience ... if anything, respect has increased, not decreased. I'm not expecting this experience to be any different with My potential sub, though as a lesbian female, the dynamic will be new to Me (I am a closet bi LOL!). she is actively looking forward to seeing how i serve Master so that she learns from example as well as instruction in terms of serving Me. It might help that neither Master nor I are into humiliation play, so she won't be witnessing me grovelling or begging, that's just not a turn-on for Us. (No offence to those for whom it IS a turn-on btw, enjoy it if it's your thing!).

The take-home message is please don't judge all switches as the same ... there's a lot of diversity in this "group". And while I respect that we may not be everyone's cup of tea, coffee or hot chocolate ... I'm used to that, being a BBW ;-) ... please try to avoid making sweeping generalizations about our motivations, our needs, our ways of exercising our switch etc etc! If you must take that tack, wording it as "all the switches I've encountered in My area seem to have been into it for their own amusement etc etc" ... that's a whole lot less offensive!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

< Message edited by MaamJay -- 7/6/2007 3:25:00 AM >


_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to thetaboosun)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Why are we wrong? - 7/7/2007 8:13:05 PM   
Tenebrious


Posts: 101
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: right behind you
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay
neither Master nor I are into humiliation play

Phew!  I was beginning to think I was the only one that didn't get off on that. 

(in reply to MaamJay)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Why are we wrong? - 7/8/2007 12:30:31 AM   
solitudesmiles


Posts: 807
Joined: 8/19/2006
From: my thoughts
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The submissive heart bleeds and grieves. It grows with the strength of dominants and fades with the lack of attention. It withers in isolation and blooms in the arms of love. It glows under observation and dims when ignored. When thrust into comparison with other submissive persons it fades, it bleeds, and it slowly dies. The submissive heart is fragile, yet in many ways strong. It can take many beatings in its evolution, continue to bleed and grow. Nevertheless, it does evolve. The tender submissive heart hardens, until the soul of the submissive either dies away and evolves into something not submissive. It may turn into a switch. It may even turn to the opposite, becoming a dominant heart. This is not done out of desire, for the true heart of a submissive wants to be a submissive, yearns to be a slave. The best dominants come from experiencing submissiveness mainly due to the fact they treat submissive persons in the way they wanted to be treated. Dominants often deal with their own insecurities, unsure of how to revive the wilting submissive heart. Far too often, the ability and chance slips through their fingers. The experienced dominant may tend to live in the past, looking to relive past events and emotions and not realize that he or she is letting the potential bright future in the submissive heart before him or her slip away. Inattention, lack of physical contact, absence of appreciation will cause the submissive heart to retract from view. In its place is often born the ability to take care of itself on its own, struggling to grow and strengthen, to cover the vulnerable spots out of protectiveness. Once again, the submissive heart bleeds and grieves.  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~to be happy doesnt mean things have to be perfect it means that you have desided to look beyond the imperfections~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Why are we wrong? - 7/8/2007 12:35:49 AM   
ExquisiteFeline


Posts: 124
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tenebrious

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay
neither Master nor I are into humiliation play

Phew!  I was beginning to think I was the only one that didn't get off on that. 


OMG No way! Objective humiliation, definately not, I had my first introduction to BDSM like that and I tell you what I nearly ran away thinking :What the fuck was I thinking getting into a violent and disgusting scene like this? I would have been gone for good but for these dam'd fetishes that I just can't get rid of ;)
I have been super duper weary of Male Dominants, to the point where there is obvious violation of trust and a level of fear associated with all Doms in general. Slowly I am coming around to the idea of allowing myself to be Dommed again... it is hard for me to not have someone to serve, I need someone to serve in order to be served also, unless I have a Dom, I am asexual....

Tenebrious, *sighs* so far away on the otherside of the world. Your profile rocks! You sound rather interesting indeed, "Strong and silent." mmm nice its like the image of the all prevailing God, magnetic, allows the goddess to come in surrender, opens like a flower and falls to her knees before him....
...anyway I will stop dreaming now... aside from that your pic is hot! I am not trolling BTW, just merely paying a due complement...

< Message edited by ExquisiteFeline -- 7/8/2007 12:44:10 AM >

(in reply to Tenebrious)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Why are we wrong? - 7/14/2007 9:24:48 PM   
BlackWolfSwitch


Posts: 40
Joined: 4/4/2007
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Came across this thread a few days back.. kinda got a twitch from it. Took time away and looked at it again, twitched again. So I think I'll post anyway.

We are not wrong, of that much I can assure you. As one stated, we are a 'whole' as a community, but made of individuals that bring their own things to the 'whole'. Too true. Though...
That does not take away from those that look down on a part of the community, individuals or not. Now, that said.. that would give light to the thought that one takes offense to the group instead of the guilty... but no worries on that, as I only think less of the individuals that are the guilty.

I looked through here, and noticed that there is a female that has a distaste for switches. That's fine, by all means we all have our preferences... but I can safely say that just because of a few, doesn't mean we all think the same. It's not "All About ME", it's "All About EVERYONE ELSE". We're not switches (At least I hope most of us) because we have the "Me me me" attitude, looking to hit any target we can because we're in the middle. Screw that. We are as we are because we like it all.

Still.. there are individuals that spell out bad things for the rest of a group... so I am not speaking badly of said female (Lotus Song), before anyone jumps me for such an assumption. I'm only saying, the few do not make the many.

Off that, another reason that people dislike switches... is because they fear switches. Yes, deny it all they want, they fear the fact that we are not in our own little box with the rest of the world.
One labeled "Sub", one labeled "Dom" .. yet here we are kicking back on both of them with a smile. Generally those are the old style types that only see things in a linear PoV. Black and White.. no gray, because what's gray? Switches.

End note... Switches are not the most awesome thing since sliced bread, but we're not the bottom of the barrel. We are just... flexable. ;)

Happy thoughts,
Wolf
~HAPPILY a switch~


_____________________________

"Command of the collar, or submission to wear it. It's your choice. My choice is to know what I like from both."

(in reply to Phin)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Why are we wrong? - 7/18/2007 6:30:30 PM   
AdventurousLife


Posts: 72
Status: offline

Those who proclaim loudest how tolerant they are -- such as the "community" generally aren't.

I have a tendency to always be in the sub-group--- probably because I'm an individualist...but the gay community "preaches tolerance" but its intolerant to bisexuals (this has gotten better in recent years)... liberals proclaim their tolerance but are intolerant to capitalists, polyamorous people proclaim quite loudiely their tolerance but are intolerant to anyone who does it differently-- swingers or polyfi.... and of course the "BDSM community" proclaims how supportive and tolerant they are-- but is extremely judgemental towards people who engage in Ds, choose not to exhibit their subs in public, are switches, have kinks they don't approve of (like toilet play), are bisexual, etc. etc. etc.

Of course, the community is a bunch of individuals so when I say the community, I'm not talking about the individual people, but the culture-- the cultural norms. And the cultural norms tolerate a lot of bad behaviour based on prejudices.

(in reply to BlackWolfSwitch)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Why are we wrong? - 7/19/2007 12:44:46 PM   
sharainks


Posts: 499
Joined: 12/13/2004
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To me being switch is accepting reality in terms of  power dynamics.  No one is dominant over every single person they meet and no one is submissive to every single person they meet.  I think its that some people couldn't admit that they aren't always top dog or it rankles them not to be when they aren't. 

I'm a very strong willed, well centered person.  So much so that many can't see me in a submissive role.  Yet with the right person I'm very submissive.  With others its obvious though they consider themselves dominant they are not capable of being dominant over me.  Its a matter of personal dynamics with it being a case by case basis. 

It has also always seemed to me that with some men the fact that they were born with a penis is the criteria by which they proclaim their domliness.  I have found quite the opposite.  Give me a submissive man who is content and accepting of his role and why he is submissive any day over the penis=dom thing.  There is a strength of will and a calmness around a man who has fought his own demons to realize that being a male switch or submissive is not being a sissy.  Its about making peace with who you are.  The same thing is true of doms who have fought through the cultural things about not hitting women and can be at peace with their desires and needs and still respect and care deeply about women.

< Message edited by sharainks -- 7/19/2007 12:51:27 PM >

(in reply to AdventurousLife)
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RE: Why are we wrong? - 7/20/2007 4:47:03 AM   
wgirl


Posts: 5
Joined: 6/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetaboosun

The problem with humanity is that our tendency is to become slaves to dogma that is based on our own selfish observations of how things ought to be.  A top that hates the switch likely does so because of their tunnel vision as to how a sub should be.


You hit the nail on the head! There seems to be this idea that a 'switch' isn't (in some viewpoints), a perfectly natural thing to be...a former Dom of mine, years ago, became a 'switch'...He was happy and had simply grown into a different feeling, attitude...It did not work out for us as I was uncomfortable 'pretending' to be  Dom, and no matter how I tried, could not be a Top, even in play...but without judgement, I let Him be who he was evolving into to w/ new kinks and desires.

It's interesting to me how so many D/s couples and those in the lifestyle seem to think they have the D/s manual, their way is right, you are wrong, that isn't so, yadda yadda. The wonderful aspect of the lifestyle is that people grow, change, and evolve.

Be yourself. Don't worry what others my think. Those that claim they are right and you are wrong? Well, that's a sign of immaturity, period.




(in reply to thetaboosun)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Why are we wrong? - 7/20/2007 11:55:31 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
(fast reply)

I just checked back in on this thread being it is still going on.  I can't believe my name is still being bandied about.  I went back and read my posts and put them into a word document and read them all IN CONTEXT.  I was respectful and simply presented a personal viewpoint. If one is content within themselves, nothing will upset them.  I'm a Domme.  That has it's detractors also.  I don't get angry I just understand where they are coming from.  Preferences are preferences, folks.    

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to wgirl)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Why are we wrong? - 7/26/2007 10:10:01 AM   
Rockwell


Posts: 63
Status: offline
Nothing intelligent to say right now.
just Thanks.

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Why are we wrong? - 8/9/2007 7:21:36 AM   
sophia37


Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline
Usually by age 48, youre too old to care anymore. lol lolol

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Why are we wrong? - 8/23/2007 6:02:49 PM   
Fizfig8


Posts: 4
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline
We are not wrong, we are different. I find that I am looked upon as very odd... because my partner and i are "total" switches. He is Master and slave, I am Mistress and slave. It works for us, but I do feel that there is a lot of prejudice out there. Again, there is a perception that this is all done in "play". Not in our case, we are our own circle of power flow, both of us sensing and filling the other's needs.

Before we met, both of us were seen as Dominants by those around us, while personally I feel that we are both internally more submissive. I was terribly ashamed of feeling submissive... for lots of boring reasons i won't go into. But now that we are together, we finally feel we've got it "right" (for us!)

But dealing with us, people do feel that each of us has 2 personalities. I think that's why we are so weird... but as he always says... "Our world, our rules".... and you know, He is right!

(in reply to sophia37)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Why are we wrong? - 8/23/2007 8:04:16 PM   
Elea


Posts: 20
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Anywhere but here...
Status: offline
We can always agree to disagree.

^.~

One of my favorite thoughts on when it comes to arguing something like this which is totally dependant on variables (those variables being thousands of individual human beings) is this:

For every single point in space - be it a point in philosiphy, theology, semantics, or any other topic worthy of debate - there are 360 different degrees from which to approach and view it.


So ultimately, I'm happy with where I view my point in space - I do have to wonder though, how unhappy are all the people who are being so vocal to defend their degree of difference from everyone else.

My choices only affect me and anyone who chooses to be involved with me - so, turning it into a huge debate on the CM forums isn't going to change anyone else's mind or alter how the 'community' as a whole views things.

Just try not to take these things personally, folks - its not like anyone is saying YOU are a bad switch, or Lotus is a bad Domme...  These are public forums, so anyone who wants to is allowed to post their opinion - even if it doesn't agree with yours.

Do I think its wrong to be a switch?  No; because I know that most switches do it for the right reason - that being to still serve and love their partner.  Ultimately, that is all that matters to me.


_____________________________

Be well, A/all.

~Elea

(in reply to Fizfig8)
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RE: Why are we wrong? - 8/24/2007 2:51:11 AM   
ROPENHIGHHEELS


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Joined: 3/22/2004
Status: offline
I feel most "old school" people that aren't switches feel that way. The more "current" people in the lifestyle no matter how they identify seem fine with switches and don't judge anyone. The "old school" people can have their opinions. That's all they are...opinions. Doesn't mean they're right. It's just how they were taught and what they believe in when it comes to the lifestyle. Anyone that has a problem with someone that enjoys switching is their problem. Maybe one day they'll learn to get over it. If not, I guess they're going to be upset about it for good as I doubt the title of being a "switch" will be going away anytime soon...lol. We're not wrong. If anyone says we are, then they are the ones that are wrong. Not us. I wouldn't dwell on someone's negative opinion on a switch. I'd find it even more funny that they feel that way over something as silly as someone identifying as a "switch." Be who you are and enjoy it. Who cares what others think about how you enjoy to play in this lifestyle??? I wouldn't.  :)

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Why are we wrong? - 9/5/2007 3:11:49 PM   
weavingeagle


Posts: 1
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline
I think it is in the ability to give and receive energy.  I have been board with an experienced dominatrix and excited with a 1st time Mistress. I domed a guy within two minutes of being dominated by a mistress and he had a moving experience with a non gay guy. I do have an advantages over most, I have learned to move energy through ceremony and healing work.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Why are we wrong? - 9/6/2007 3:17:14 AM   
NawtyNatasha


Posts: 18
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline
Speaking as one Switch to another, my reaction to your post is,"Why do you care?" Right or wrong, we all have our biases and preferences based on preconceived notions or life experiences (in or out of the community), but that doesn't make any of us absolutely right or wrong. Enjoy your switchiness with those who appreciate it and worry less about those who don't.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Why are we wrong? - 9/6/2007 10:13:36 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetaboosun

The problem with humanity is that our tendency is to become slaves to dogma that is based on our own selfish observations of how things ought to be.  A top that hates the switch likely does so because of their tunnel vision as to how a sub should be.  A lot of tops (especially the females dommes I've come to know) are very insecure when it comes to switches, because of their narrow view that a bottom needs to be subservient at all times, weak, etc- all of the things that this particular breed of top has spent a lifetime trying not to be.  The idea that a person they could be dominating could have a stronger and potentially overwhelming constitution just doesn't fly with those kinds of people.  Its "my way or the highway" instead of  "I'll drive halfway, you drive the rest".

On top of that, it is my personal preference, as a switch, to date or scene with other switches.  I have found that, at least in my scene in L.A., the female dommes aren't worth the words they use to compliment themselves.



Are you double jointed?  I sincerely hope so.  I'd hate to see you dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back like that :)
 
So switches, what is your basic problem with those that prefer not to involve themselves with switches?
If I'm not appreciated for what *I*  am, I simply don't seek out people that I know would be disappointed with me.
 
I'm not putting you down.  The OP wondered if they are "wrong"-  I simply stated what it looks like from the viewpoint of one who prefers not to play with a switch is all.  But boy, you guys sure don't hesitate to make everyone ELSE wrong that don't see things your way.
 
(PS:  I'm a DAMN good domme.. you always know where I stand and I make no excuses for the way I am)

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 9/6/2007 10:14:08 AM >


_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to thetaboosun)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Why are we wrong? - 9/6/2007 6:03:04 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire


For me, I do not like to play with switches for one simple reason. I know they are not going to be completely fulfilled with what we share.  If someone is happy switching and can find a partner that does the same, then I am happy for them.

It isnt for everyone, but there are always those that will look down on someone that does things differently than they do.

Ignore them, and find what you want.
DV



That's a very honest answer, and one I can understand. But I wonder, can one person really ever totally fulfill another?

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Why are we wrong? - 9/8/2007 2:59:47 AM   
Dharkeclipse


Posts: 3
Joined: 9/7/2007
Status: offline
I am a bi, pagan, switch.
In my 14 years of experiance I have run across many who say they are switches but few who are switches (meaning true switches). I came into this life as a sub and only a sub but after my first Dom basically order me to top one of his other subs  I found I liked Domming females. So now i'm a sub to Dominant males and a Domme to submissive females. I occassionally want to play hard and my female sub isn't into that so I find a male sub to Top. Takes care of both my sadistic and masochist sides <EG>.
Its like a computer some are programmed to be Doms/Dommes, some subs/slaves and others switches don't ask me why because i have no idea why it just is.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 80
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