RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul

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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/24/2007 3:08:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

We cry out to God when one of our loved ones is taken from us saying life is not fair.

...speak for yourself. In my opinion, those with religious beliefs really ought to stop assuming that we all think the same way as them. When my loved ones died it wasn't to God i turned, it was to my family....oh, and life isn't fair unless we make it so.

(in reply to sub4hire)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/24/2007 3:17:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

We cry out to God when one of our loved ones is taken from us saying life is not fair.

...speak for yourself. In my opinion, those with religious beliefs really ought to stop assuming that we all think the same way as them. When my loved ones died it wasn't to God i turned, it was to my family....oh, and life isn't fair unless we make it so.

Philosophy, correct, that's their beliefs not mine or other peoples'.
I've always been suspicious of people who claim to have "a vision!"
They always *want* something from you (usually money) to fullfill "their"- "vision."
Well I have a "vision" too and it doesn't involve poor people in Calcutta!
To all those religious zealots I say, "those are your beliefs, not mine."
I'm supposed to be "happy" because some nut helped poor people in Calcutta?
Gee, I'm just not getting a warm fuzzy feeling.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to philosophy)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/24/2007 4:55:31 PM

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Some of you are looking at the conditions inside the fly bottle and noting how courageous and pious the woman was in the face of worsening conditions. Others of you are noting how she did things herself to worsen the conditions inside the fly bottle.

Of the two cases I feel sorriest for those that cannot even recognize the conditions of their own lives and instead stick their heads in the clouds and fantasize about some delusion of an afterlife. It's no trick to be pious when you simultaneously deny every moment of your conscious existence and cover it over with foolishness.

Those of us that are ethically discussing the realities of birth rates, family planning, the world's limitations on all manner of resources may not be saints but at least we do the real work that is actually needed. In which case, better to be a sinner than a saint.

Your saints are all fluff and no substance.

(in reply to popeye1250)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/24/2007 5:28:36 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
Of the two cases I feel sorriest for those that cannot even recognize the conditions of their own lives and instead stick their heads in the clouds and fantasize about some delusion of an afterlife. It's no trick to be pious when you simultaneously deny every moment of your conscious existence and cover it over with foolishness.

The poor have nothing else. All things of value may be stolen from them, even their life, by those who are evil, but they cannot steal their spiritual awareness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
Those of us that are ethically discussing the realities of birth rates, family planning, the world's limitations on all manner of resources may not be saints but at least we do the real work that is actually needed. In which case, better to be a sinner than a saint.

We never had such planners before. So what changed that we require them now?
It will not work anyhow. Half a million people have been murdered in Iraq in recent years. Millions of people are dying from HIV / AIDS. The reponse of the survivors is predictable: "Our children are being murdered by the Americans and their disease. Our only possible defense is to have as many children as possible, so that perhaps some of them will survive."

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
Your saints are all fluff and no substance.

At least several first millennium saints were very substantial.

< Message edited by Rule -- 8/24/2007 5:30:00 PM >

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/24/2007 5:30:25 PM

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"MOTHER TERESA : WHERE ARE HER MILLIONS?"
by Walter Wuellenweber, STERN magazine 10 September 1998
http://members.lycos.co.uk/bajuu/

While the Missionaries of Charity have already witheld help from the starving in Ethiopia or the orphans in India -- despite having received donations in their names -- there are others who are being actively harmed by the organisation's ideology of disorganisation. In 1994, Robin Fox, editor of the prestigious medical journal Lancet, in a commentary on the catastrophic conditions prevailing in Mother Teresa's homes, shocked the professional world by saying that any systematic operation was foreign to the running of the homes in India: TB patients were not isolated, and syringes were washed in lukewarm water before being used again. Even patients in unbearable pain were refused strong painkillers, not because the order did not have them, but on principle. "The most beautiful gift for a person is that he can participate in the suffering of Christ," said Mother Teresa. Once she had tried to comfort a screaming sufferer, "You are suffering, that means Jesus is kissing you." The sufferer screamed back, furious, "Then tell your Jesus to stop kissing me."

The English doctor Jack Preger once worked in the home for the dying. He says, "If one wants to give love, understanding and care, one uses sterile needles. This is probably the richest order in the world. Many of the dying there do not have to be dying in a strictly medical sense." The British newspaper Guardian described the hospice as an "organised form of neglectful assistance".

It seems that the medical care of the orphans is hardly any better. In 1991 the head of Pro Infante in Germany sent a newsletter to adoptive parents:"Please check the validity of the vaccinations of your children. We assume that in some case they have been vaccinated with expired vaccines, or with vaccines that had been rendered useless by improper strotage conditions." All this points to one thing, something that Mother Teresa reiterated very frequently in her speeches and addresses -- that she far more concerened with life after death than the mortal life.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/24/2007 6:07:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FootBuddy

Anyone who criticizes Mother Teresa is a dumbass. You might as well criticize the NY firefighters and policemen on 9/11 or anyone willing to give up their lives for the benefit of other people. What have you done that's so important. Exactly.

The NYPD on 9/11? Yeah, what, 34 cops died, when over 300 FDNY members died.

NYPD is riding FDNY's coattails on this one, and it's a sin to even MENTION a fucking chickenshit NYC pig in the same breath with the brave firefighters.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FootBuddy)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/24/2007 9:20:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
All in all a monstrous hypocrite.

Interesting, DomKen. So what happened to the disappeared money? I seems as though she used the poor as a source of revenue, but for what purpose?
It also may be that she enjoyed the sight of people dying. Perchance even made sure that they did?

That's a question a lot of people would like the answer to. What is known is that minimal sums were spent in opening of each convent or hospice then those were required to operate entirely without support from the order.

Testimony of former sisters and volunteers indicate that virtually nothing of the money donated was spent helping the poor and needy.

A lot of effort goes into the myth that the order is destitute. The refusal to use donated computers or other office equipment. The careful banking of donations only in places where public examination will not occur, the order keeps virtually no money in Indian banks for instance. The destruction of all financial records by the orders practice of doing all bookkeeping in notebooks that are erased and reused once they are full.

It is known that a lot of money has gone into the orders coffers over the years but it is unclear where much of it has been spent if it has been spent. The order's main account is in the Vatican's bank which puts it well beyond any investigator's reach.

It is known she spent some of the order's funds opposing the divorce referendum in Ireland in 1995 but what she spent appears to have been trivial compared to the estimates of the order's income.

It is possible that it all sits in the Vatican's bank unspent but I am by nature a cynic and think she invested the money in groups that shared her rather extreme views but I have no evidence in support of that.

(in reply to Rule)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 1:45:04 AM

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To be blunt and to the point: I am still wondering how some who have not one good thing about a woman who devoted her entire life to trying to help the poor and dying, when nobody on this thread has probably done anything with their own life that even comes close to comparing to what she did with hers, can belittle her massive efforts and sacrifice toward those ends - of her her time here in life. I think that even if those who seem to think she is evil, while you do have a right to your opinion, and she wasn't a perfect human being , I think you're way, way off-base.

She won a Nobel Peace Prize - and as someone pointed out abother thread - that takes a considerable amount of vetting to receive - the amount of hard-core scrutiny those considered for one undergo is more than a little considerable. I'd like to see someone explain that away?

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/25/2007 1:50:57 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 2:18:33 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
To be blunt and to the point: I am still wondering how some who have not one good thing about a woman who devoted her entire life to trying to help the poor and dying, when nobody on this thread has probably done anything with their own life that even comes close to comparing to what she did with hers,

I died for you and all of them, my dear.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
can belittle her massive efforts and sacrifice toward those ends - of her time here in life. I think that even if those who seem to think she is evil, while you do have a right to your opinion, and she wasn't a perfect human being , I think you're way, way off-base.

Mesuspects that 97 per cent of the money that you donate to charity is never applied for that purpose, but ends up with another destination altogether. The perfidity of evil is without limit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
She won a Nobel Peace Prize - and as someone pointed out abother thread - that takes a considerable amount of vetting to receive - the amount of hard-core scrutiny those considered for one undergo is more than a little considerable. I'd like to see someone explain that away?

Quote: "The prize was awarded jointly to Arafat, Israel's Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and Foreign Minister Shimon Peres "for their efforts to create peace in the Middle East.""

After that debacle, who can ever take the Nobel Peace Prize seriously? The NPP is awarded only to a select incrowd. If an ordinary person tries to achieve a similar feat, he or she would probably get murdered and / or his organization taken over. An NPP he would not get.

< Message edited by Rule -- 8/25/2007 2:43:02 AM >

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 4:07:29 AM

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Thats still doesn't answer my question, though. No offense, but - sounds like life on Earth turns out not to be perfect - for anyone. What a revelation!? Should this actually be a surprise - to anyone? Because I think anyone who lets it ruin their faith in humanity has as substantial amount of growing up to do.

Nobody has provided any evidence on paper (like a factual business report) that Mother Theresa misappropriated any funds - If they did -then I might raise an eyebrow and get all upset. Show me proof on paper and I'll listen. Until then, I consider all of what I have read to be nothing but defamation of character. All I have read has been speculation. That her religious beliefs do not coincide with those of some here is just too bad. She was a Catholic nun who seemed (to me) to be sincerely working her mission around Catholic beliefs. Is that a real surprise to anyone?

If people weren't so busy turning mere human beings into Icons to begin with, maybe they wouldn't feel quite as seared when these folks turn out to be human beings making mistakes on occasion, like the rest of us.

As for how much people donate to charity is admin. cost vs. goes toward field work - if anyone actually wants to know, all they need to do is read an annual report for the organization in question. Anyone who doesn't do this before making donations is a fool, IMO.

I realize one needs to be famous (at least in their field) before getting an NPP. Ah well, there's the rub - we are not all "equal" there are we? I sense a slight unrealisitc expectation here. Is it really realisitc to expect that kind of equality? No, not IMO. How would you propose "evening the kick-off "playing field?" There are only 10 billion contenders on the planet if we use your formula. That isn't quite what the originators of the NPP had in mind, either, I suspect.

The NPP is an achievement award. The fact not everyone has a chance to qualify, due to their life circumstances (and their energy level and-or desire (or the judgment of pertinent others re: those achievements) is already a given (at least to me). Perhaps it is destiny, who knows?

Those conditions don't make all (or any) of its recipients ipso facto unworthy, at least not to me it doesn't. What did you expect re: Arafat, etc. - for the world to stand frozen in time? For what is now history to stand still? Time moves on, and the world changes. This should not come as a surprise.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/25/2007 4:43:04 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Rule)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 4:25:46 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
To be blunt and to the point: I am still wondering how some who have not one good thing about a woman who devoted her entire life to trying to help the poor and dying, when nobody on this thread has probably done anything with their own life that even comes close to comparing to what she did with hers, can belittle her massive efforts and sacrifice toward those ends - of her her time here in life.

Easy to answer...

She was a religious kook who cared more about someone's supposed salvation in the afterlife than the very real suffering they were undergoing at her hands (either because she gave substandard treatment or altogether withheld treatment she could have provided considering her financial resources).

To me Teresa can be lumped with all these assholes walking around waiting to be carried into heaven as depicted in the death-loving "Left Behind" series. Sorry, but I just can't get behind such apocalypse seeking freaks. They all love death so much, I hope it comes for them soon so they can leave the rest of us alone.

Teresa and her ilk are exactly the kind of people that scare the living shit out of the rest of us that are still trying to have a go at creating paradise on earth. I don't believe in nor care about a possible afterlife.

Now is the only thing that's real.

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 4:43:56 AM

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That still doesn't answer my question. And just what have you done with your life - on that massive a scale - to create a "Paradise on Earth" for the rest of us, may I ask? Your hypocrisy and arrogance are truly astounding.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/25/2007 4:48:55 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 5:05:10 AM

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Just because someone has done "more" doesn't mean that it's been done ethically.
Quantity does not equal quality.

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 5:21:22 AM

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If you're getting an Nobel Peace Prize, you undergo a tremendous amount of scritiny - and the amount sure as heck does count.

Nobody whining about Mother Theresa and what a really awful person she was has 1) Provided any legitimate proof of her so-called financial wrongs - it's all been basically whiny speculation or 2) Answered the question I just posed - in reference to themselves. Maybe they haven't seen it. I think it's a very relevant question, in reference to the topic.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/25/2007 6:00:12 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Aileen68)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 5:25:02 AM

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Under that line of thinking then only a handful of people should be able to criticize the president since only a handful out of millions have ever been in that position.

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 5:26:28 AM

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But we're not talking about the President. Are we? I'm not.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Aileen68)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 5:32:17 AM

Rule

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It appears to me that she sat like a vulture besides the bed of poor people, waiting for them to die, secretly relishing in their pain and suffering and death struggle, and all the while lamenting that good christians should give her more money to fill her bottomless pockets.

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 5:32:27 AM

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Maybe I'm wrong, but you seem to be saying that people shouldn't criticize her since they've never done the type/scale of charity work that she's done. I used the president as an example of how people criticize him all the time without ever having been or ever will be in his position of power.

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 5:37:07 AM

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Is there a full moon or is it the rain (O.o)? This isn't directed to you...people are SO damn touchy all of a sudden. I think we all need to sit on domiguy's couch, eat calorie free doritos and block the hell out of each other.

(in reply to Aileen68)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 5:39:03 AM

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It's the Fall rut. Testosterone is running high.

(in reply to bandit25)

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