RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul

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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 6:53:08 AM

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I cited a source - Stern - in one of my earlier comments. Don't like it, don't care to read it, fine - I don't care either. Sadly, much of this material is offline in your local library if you care to go find it and read it. Personally, I find the online sources sufficient.

But your attitude is pretty lame. You hide behind that Nobel award as if it were the end all and be all of all possible things in this discussion when everyone knows its not. So please just consider that dodge equally kicked to the curb.

Peace be with you.

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 7:02:13 AM

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You can be a hypocrite and fraud and still manage to do "good works" along the way. I've had first hand experience with some who quality for that and run munches.

Regarding the financial aspects - the Church is a "cash" business. The greatest forensic accountant in the world couldn't uncover a fraud. Nobody can know how much of the cash goes to its intended charity. I'll stipulate that I have no first hand knowledge of 'Mother T' however I do have plenty regarding her business organization. I remember serving as alter boy in grade school and having the priest dip into the quarters and dimes given by poor black clad old Italian ladies at the 7:00 a.m. Mass handing them to me and telling me to go to the corner store to buy him some cigarettes.

Mother T is a 'saint' for the Catholic church because she made them money. Her cult is no different than any of the others in that regard. No better, no worse in their actions, goals, or hypocrisy. That she may have helped some people along the way and caused pain and/or killed others doesn't make her 'special'; in fact it makes her just like the rest of us - she 'served' herself.

The same person can be both a positive and negative 'role model' depending on the focus of the biographer. Abe Lincoln's "one true way" had more to do with preserving the union than slavery. If slavery was his focus the day after inauguration he would have abolished it. Instead he used it as tool to re energize the North's willingness to make war.

(in reply to IvyMorgan)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 7:06:38 AM

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Excellent point, Mercnbeth. Since when does anyone who is able to do good have to qualify for sainthood or live up to extra-high standards, even? Humans can do good - and if I don't miss my guess, they also can pretty much screw up on a regular basis. Unless I miss my guess, Mother T was also a human.

Back to the original question: Where's the bona-fide proof? Also how do these allegations on this thread negate an entire life spent living in the hell-holes of Calcutta trying to aid the poor and dying?

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/25/2007 7:31:15 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 7:07:04 AM

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I love how that people seem to be labeling mother Teresa, a hypocrite, as the man said I don't think you know what they word means! Granted, I think the Catholic Church has a LOT that it has to atone for.

Personally, I want reparations for what they did to my family during the reformation!

However, the original thread of this was supposed to be about can we as Christians believe and still have doubt..

I cannot believe in a God that would let me not doubt him. Because doubt makes one's faith stronger.

You look at a chair that you want to sit in, its kind of weak your unsure if the chair will hold you. Its held you before, but there is no guarentee that it will hold you again. we learn two things from this

1) that because we dought and we have faith and the chair holds us then we learn to trust the chair more.

2) if the chair didn't hold us this time, it wasn't because our faith was faulty, it was because the object of our faith was.

God is like the chair, our doughts make our faith stronger. If the chair didn't hold us then we look into why the chair didn't hold us. Was the chair weak, did someone come along and damage the chair. When we go back to "The Chair" then we now know why and our faith is restored.

(in reply to Rule)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 7:16:30 AM

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Excellent post Merc, as usual.

It could also be mentioned that Mother Theresa is one person ... the name that fronts a huge organization. Somehow, I seriously doubt she examines every needle, accounts for every penny, etc ...

When all else fails, the point could be made that she is perhaps a hell of as lot better at being a nun, than she is at running a huge corporation, with global interests. It has to be considered, that the woman may jut be a pawn, and doesn't even know it.

One thing for sure, she didn't spend the money on fancy clothing.

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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 7:20:25 AM

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Excellent point, caitlyn.
Neither did she spend it on luxurious accomodations, or Saturday afternoon rounds of golf, or cars, or dinners at fancy restaurants. Or even air-conditioning for her shabby little apartment. She did, however, spend most of her time since age 25 - that is 62 years of life - trying to help the poor and dying the best way she knew how. *Notice I didn't say: Helping the poor and dying - according to standards of acceptability that satisfy everyone else's standards.

I am referring to one person - and asking about one person. Her.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/25/2007 7:43:04 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to caitlyn)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 7:22:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnSteed1967

I love how that people seem to be labeling mother Teresa, a hypocrite, as the man said I don't think you know what they word means! Granted, I think the Catholic Church has a LOT that it has to atone for.

However, the original thread of this was supposed to be about can we as Christians believe and still have doubt..

I cannot believe in a God that would let me not doubt him. Because doubt makes one's faith stronger.

I agree John

From the news bits, I have seen. She wrote these letters in confidence and almost as a confession of sorts and requested the letters be destroyed.

FAST REPLY^
I did not read the whole thread because frankly I could not stomach it. These were her private thoughts and we all have thoughts, at one time or another, that may go against the grain.
Questioning one's faith just means a person has thoughts outside of the proverbial box.........if one did not question anything, I believe they would belong to a cult or unable to think for themselves. Regardless, of how anyone feels about the Church or Canonization, the fact is Mother Theresa helped millions while living in poverty in Calcutta--she is the poster child and icon of giving for decades. If not her, who else? (rhetorical) However, at least she was honest with herself which is more than I can say for most people or religious organizations. Nevermind, you all are right, we should tear her to shreds--please continue

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 8/25/2007 7:57:12 AM >

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(in reply to JohnSteed1967)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 8:14:33 AM

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SugarMyChurro: Yes. There is a reason for that, too. A Nobel Peace prize committee is not the same as referencing a questionable news source. It requires references and life-time work and achievement equal to commentaries from about a hundred Sterns, vetted over months and months, by many people in as objective a way as they can possibly manage.

A commentary like Stern's, based on extremely subjective opinion, takes minutes to write - based on some reading of highly subjective and-or biased sources, OR if it's a sensationalistic book - based on a lot of innuendo and very little (if any) actual proof or backed-up fact, maybe a few weeks to write. And in the case of the book, the money made from it sure as hell probably ain't going to help the poor in India.

Stern's is the biased commentary of one person. I certainly don't consider that proof - and especially I don't consider it proof that would negate the references required by a Nobel Peace prize committee - or in any case, especially to negate's someone's entire life's work to aid the poor and dying - from someone who did that work for 62 years the best way they knew how, and lived in poverty themselves while doing it. Regardless of their religion - or whether or not they screwed up a few times, as every human being is wont to do in the course of this life, no matter how much they might want to avoid it.

You apparently cannot tell the difference, and thus we have no business conversing on this topic together. But like I said, I am not able to get this across to you - so I am going to bed.

Peace be with you, too.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/25/2007 8:58:44 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to UR2Badored)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 8:28:04 AM

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I just can't get over how much people will base their entire opinion of someone on a source like YouTube, or one sensationslitic commentator - and then have the nerve to tell me that some news media is "for sale" within the same exact post.

Journalism and Broadcasting are competitve fields to be sure, that rely on advertising dollars to stay alfoat. Some outlets definitley have a better reputation for a reason (as I already stated). *But neither requires a vetting like a Nobel Peace prize committee - and that prize is definitely not "for sale", either.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/25/2007 9:21:26 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 9:05:16 AM

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Susan - I wouldn't consider Stern magazine or The New Statesman unreliable sources.

What horrifies me is that I share her birthday. Bad luck.

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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 9:27:15 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
Since when does anyone who is able to do good have to qualify for sainthood or live up to extra-high standards, even?

Never mind what the church calls a saint. Only people who have been specifically appointed by God or by the servants of God are legitimate prophets and saints. A first millennium prophet like Mohammed was one of them - unfortunately his achievement was corrupted and instead of worshipping Allah the muslims have since worshipped the gods of the jews. No second millennium christian qualifies as a saint and the vulture of Calcutta least of all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
Unless I miss my guess, Mother T was also a human.

Why? Because she had ten toes and all the other attributes of a human body? So did the god that made man in his image. T was part of the human species, but that in itself does not make her human.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
Back to the original question: Where's the bona-fide proof? Also how do these allegations on this thread negate an entire life spent living in the hell-holes of Calcutta trying to aid the poor and dying?

A human will consider a battlefield strewn with corpses a dreary place, a hell-hole. A vulture, though, when dreaming of such places will salivate and have drool dripping from its beak. Vulture T was in Calcutta because she relished the misery of her victims; it was her paradise of vultures. May the god of the dead reincarnate her as a carrion eater: as the larva of a fly.

The clothes of a nun do not a nun make.

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 9:28:03 AM

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See my above post, kitttensol. They are still commentaries, usually of one person. Not quite the same as a Nobel Prize committee considering someone's life's work and scrutinizing their qualifications over months and months, and comparing them to others who are strong enough to be contenders who may be up for the same prize.

And certainly not with the same goal in mind. A Nobel committee simply isn't "for sale", and is not a commerical enterprise, regardless of the fact that some journalists or broadcast media might have a better "rep" than others.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/25/2007 9:36:24 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 9:29:34 AM

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Okay Rule, whatever.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/25/2007 9:44:14 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 9:51:01 AM

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_controversies

Seriously, did you really believe the Nobel was unassailable? The prize has been controversial since the very beginning.

For whatever reason you want to cling to the idea that Teresa was a very good person. The rest of us just don't see any persuasive evidence of that. The Nobel doesn't mean shit.

BTW, the one person that could easily replace Teresa as THEE stand up person for the poor and downtrodden in India is Mahatma Gandhi. Satyagraha and all that. Speaking truth to power at the risk of one's life. Guess what? No prize.

Nor for Tesla either. Another near criminal omission.

Teresa begins to look as small as the tiniest pea...

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 9:58:59 AM

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They gave Carter and Arafat Noble Peace prizes. Pretty low standards if you ask me.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 10:00:10 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

That still doesn't answer my question. And just what have you done with your life - on that massive a scale - to create a "Paradise on Earth" for the rest of us, may I ask? Your hypocrisy and arrogance are truly astounding.

- Susan

Hello Susan,

I agree with SugarMyChurro. I have also posted rather voluminously on various threads about what I have done with my life. I do not feel my opinion on this matter is hypocritical, although I imagine there are some who do.

The Xhosa word "Ubuntu" says it all. I find myself in my relationship to other people. It is not about me, it is about what I can do for Us.

Sinergy

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(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 10:01:52 AM

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I am not debating you on this topic anymore, SugarMyChurro. Not to"jump the gun" on the next insult I am sure you will sling in my direction, but for the record, this isn't because I am "scared" to debate you - it is because I consider you an idiot (and an insulting and arrogant one as well). I do not equate Wikipedia with a Nobel Peace Prize committes's scrutiny, either. Its info can be revised by complete strangers at any time. It's hardly comparable as a reliable source. Sorry.

Sinergy: The topic is how one source's opinion negates an enitre life's work. I only said that, because SugarMyChurro suggested in one of his early posts that "the rest of us" were "working on providing a paradise on Earth" - I was merely inquiring how massively, in comparison, he considers himself to have contributed to that end - in comparison (a question which he never answered, either).

Actually, poor Level's original topic was Mother Theresa's work record and belief's and humilty. Without reading any of it, apparently many people immediatley dove in with negative opinions also citing one or two random, biased sources.I am done here.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/25/2007 10:16:36 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 10:09:14 AM

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On a serious note, I have to ask: what's wrong with putting Theresa's massive public acknowledgement as a 'saint' under scrutiny?

Note: I have restrained my natural tendency to boil over.

Note: I still have to share my birthday with hers. And that's gotta suck.

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RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 10:11:06 AM

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Please refute the notion, sourced or unsourced, that Teresa's legacy is somehow more important to the world than Ghandi's. If you can't, and I believe that you absolutely cannot, then you have your answer as to the value of the Nobel.

I mean, Henry Kissinger received the Nobel. Do you have any idea how ass-backwards that makes the prize? Kissinger should be locked up for crimes against humanity, not given an award. This issue has already arisen in the thread once before I think, but I repeat it now because it's indefensible. Anyone with the slightest clue of world history knows that Henry Kissinger is a man that should be locked up rather than lionized.

You have taken to making this personal, which is too bad. I didn't see it that way. You obviously identify closely with the subject somehow. This thread was never about you.

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul - 8/25/2007 10:14:15 AM

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kittensol: She's not a saint. Nothing is wrong with it, but - if someone is going to debate it - be prepared to debate - not merely opinionize, or spout negative opinions without backing them up. If someone wants to answer what I've posted, fine. But I've got a few opinions of mine as well. But I do gotta get going pretty soon, I got to get some shut-eye, and got duties to attend to today.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/25/2007 10:15:07 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to kittinSol)

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