Kimveri
Posts: 783
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
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Hello, taintedgypsy,
quote:
ORIGINAL: taintedgypsy
You say you did not need validation as a victim … yet how did you become a survivor if you never validated what it was you survived?
My experience with the group was not devoid of value. There was validation there, but in some others (not the whole group or it's methods) I saw a refusal to move forward. It was in some of my fellow victims that I saw a clinging to that role of "victim". THAT was what I rejected, not the therapy itself.
quote:
IRIGINAL: taintedgypsy
I am sorry that you see the world like this …
Not the whole world....most assuredly not the whole world. That is actually a part of the point -- there is MORE to life & the world than what can be found in the depths of despair, in the pits filled with pity & victims. I was trying (& clearly not doing a grand job of it ;-D) to describe the profundity of that moment when one chooses to cease being a victim, choosing to become a survivor & move PAST the suffering.
quote:
ORIGINAL: taintedgypsy
I am glad that through this care and safety you were able to move forward from group counseling which did not suit your needs, but I question if you had not had this safe harbor, if you would have had the strength to move on so quickly or with such confidence to the individual counseling and the path of a survivor.
Actually, the group therapy DID help, it just didn't help for very long. I needed more, especially more growth, some sense of moving beyond what had happened & the powerlessness it left within me. In foster parents, I was indeed amazingly lucky. It is one of those things where I still marvel at my good fortune. Most do not have such luck, as you so rightly stated. But let me assure you, it was neither “quick” nor done with easy “confidence”.
quote:
ORIGINAL: taintedgypsy
If they had looked and seen a victim in a pity pit and kept walking if I would still be alive?
While I won't say "never" or "always", I have found, in my personal & professional experience, that one cannot often help those who do not wish to BE helped. It's painful to keep reaching for someone who is in the pit, year after year, letting other things in your life go as you focus on reaching for that person in the pit....only to realize they do not WANT your help. Sometimes it works....often it does not. Each person must choose for themselves if they will reach into the pit, how long they will keep reaching, & when they must stop reaching.
quote:
ORIGINAL: taintedgypsy
{...}they could be detrimental, {…}limiting their avenues by making them feel like “victims wallowing in a pity-pit” if they turn to group help
It was not my intent to suggest that group is NOT a good starting point, or NOT productive. It most certainly is both. It simply may not be sufficient for some, or may entail a recovery pace that is not universal.
quote:
ORIGINAL: taintedgypsy
quote:
Kimveri
...If you have to kick loose a few victims, do so with no regret. Don’t look back & get caught in the trap of the pity-pit. Kick free, & do like me – listen for those faint calls from the survivors as they climb, & answer them whenever possible.
I am sorry but I read this and shiver, this is a price I would not be willing to pay, I will not cease to be a victim by becoming a victimizer.{...}To purchase my own forward momentum at the price of another falling … no
No apology needed, I understand. It is a harsh statement. I wanted it to be harsh, because it was a harsh & hard & brutal moment for me. I had to choose between my own survival or remaining a victim. However, the only one who risks "falling" is the one climbing out. Those standing on the bottom of the pit do not risk falling. They often clutch at their fellow victims, seeking only validation of their own pain & refusing to LET GO of those who have decided it’s time to move forward.
quote:
ORIGINAL: taintedgypsy
… it may take longer {...}I may even fall but I will not be that which caused me to be the victim in the first place … someone with no conscience who damaged another without thought for anything but themselves.
By deciding to move from group to more intensive individual therapy, I was not becoming a victimizer. In my opinion, it was those "victims" trying to KEEP me in the pit that felt like more victimization.
As for not having a conscience or a thought for "anything but" myself...well...I disagree. I needed to move forward in the process of recovery, while some felt they needed me to remain with them & delay my recovery, for their sake. To whom do I owe the highest responsibility? I believe it to be to myself. Surprisingly, in that act of choosing my OWN survival, I provided an example (just one of many possible) of HOW to move onward to survival.
I had to accept the fact that human beings sometimes hurt each other, & when that is done for the most basic purpose of survival, it is NOT the same as the intentional malice of victimization. In accepting that, I found some internal strength to deal with both the pain *I* may cause others as well as the pain others may cause ME, in the natural drive to survive. It is not “ok” to remain a victim simply to avoid the possibility of hurting anyone else, ever again. Pain, suffering are a part of life, & learning to handle that is necessary. HOW each person learns this varies. I won’t apologize for learning it my way.
quote:
ORIGINAL: taintedgypsy
I just feel it is a shame that you can not recognize that there are as many differing paths for recovery as there are many different traumas that create victims. Each needs to find the path that suits their needs, no path is better than another; the one that works for you is the right one for you, but not necessarily for the next person. {emphasis mine}
I am saddened that this piece, harsh as I admit it is, left you with the impression that I felt the path I chose was the ONLY path to recovery. The words you said, which I emphasized with bold, are words that I totally agree with & attempt to convey to most everyone I encounter. I work hard in my job assisting vulnerable people in gaining the degree of independence & freedom that THEY choose for themselves. Freedom & independence from victimization (past or potential) they often face in this world. I do this because I believe those same words to be true.
My whole point was to assure survivors that there need be no shame in surviving, by whatever means they must, including the unfortunate “kicking loose” of those who prefer the seeming “harmlessness” of eternal victimhood, not only for themselves but also for all those in the darkness with them. Difficult as that may be to accept, I can’t apologize for the unrelenting truth of it.
I wish you well, & enough,
~Kimveri
_____________________________
"You get what you accept."
"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_
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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 
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