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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/10/2007 2:44:21 PM   
DiurnalVampire


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I'll add my 2 cents, way back in the line for those of you who care.
I thought I was worthless after I was raped. I thought I had nothing left to live for, becasue my decision onw ho to give myself to had been taken away.  My life was over, and I had even contemplated making sure it was.
Then, I decided to actually visit my rapist in jail.
He told me that he had exactly what he wanted. I might not have died when he tried to kill me, but my life was over. That was good enough for him. And then he laughed at me.

I am who I am in part now becasue it took him laughing at me to realize tat my life wasnt over just becasue someone else had taken away a decision. OK, so I didnt get to pick who I lost my virgiinity to, how important was that really? I learned to live life to the fullest, do good things to make other people happy as well as myself.  I love easily, often and very very deeply.  I do not hate, almost ever. I kow most of you have read some of the things I have done for other people. And I have dedicated a few of my better acts to my rapist. Ive sent him letters (until he died) telling him what a wonderful life he helped me create by showing me that there really was something to live for.  God had something planned, since I should never have survived my attack. My wrists and throat were slit after he raped me. He left me cuffed to a bedframe in an abandoned building, and I should never have been found until way too late. Since then, I have looked at every day as a gift, rather than a chore.

Not sure if this is on or off topic, really. Its getting close to the aniversary of my attack which I never take really well. It fels a little better to get part of it out, and if this helps someone, great. If I get wierd over the next month or so, you will all know why.

DV



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VampiresLair

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/10/2007 3:15:21 PM   
BitaTruble


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dv, absolutely on topic and thank you for allowing a glimpse into you. i started this thread in the hopes of showing others that they're not alone and what i received in return was finding out that i'm not alone either. so, yeah, it helps.. a lot.

you people just blow me away, truly.

celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/10/2007 3:22:17 PM   
BitaTruble


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squeakers,

i wrote to you on the other side, but wanted to say publically, that i appreciate you putting this out there. it makes me think and see things with a differing perspective.

celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/10/2007 6:11:57 PM   
Squeakers


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Thanks Bita.    And thanks for starting this thread.    It has been on my mind for days.     Also thanks to your Master for being there for you.   People like him happen once in a lifetime.   Hold on tight.  

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/10/2007 7:24:06 PM   
desertdancer


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To Bita and the others thanking you for your words of strenght.

I too have known the darkness.  I too have lost myself in endless rounds of self loathing, questioning myself and others.  Some of my very first memories are of being raped and forced to give oral from about the age of 6.  I wont go into the details for that's just what they are to me now, details.

Being so young, I felt broken all through my childhood.  Broken, but yet still somehow trusting and normal.  I lived life like Alice in Wonderland, shutting out the outside and living in a world of my own.  A world where everyone was nice and I wasn't being hurt, where you could still trust people, even while every day I was being hurt.

The darkness can be so different for each person, my darkness was never wrathfull for vengfull, it wasn't self loathing or bitting it was kinder and more genlte, more alluring sweeping me into daydreams, daydreams where I was innocent yet somehow sexy at the same time. 

I locked myself away, letting my dark spin tales and stories, I lived year after year in the rooms in my head, constantly shutting door after door locking myself into a tighter space of making the world a "good place" where everyone was good.  This kept me safe, this kept me untouchable, it also kept me not feeling, not living and not loving.

A few years ago I met someone who made me wake up, made me want to open my eyes and FEEL, feel truth of life, the good and the ugle.  But waking up brought pain, such pain in realizing that the world I created wansn't real, that not all people are good and that sometime they just want to hurt others for their own pleasure.

In waking up I had to feel all those feelings, all the anger and hurt, I couldn't just drift by in my dreams anymore.  I felt each stab of pain, I felt each tear of tender flesh that I'd shut out.  I gave myself permission to lose my soul to the pain, to ride it out, to feel it like I'd felt nothing before.

I felt hate, resentment and true anger for the first time just a few years ago, but what I also found was beauty.  I found a beauty like I'd never known before.

Once I and my Husband fought my soul out of the darkness and I could stand there face to face with the seething I thanked it.

I thanked the dark for it had tried to protect me, tried to keep me safe when I needed it.  YES, it had caused me harm, but it had also showed me feelings and gave me kinder eyes, eyes that let me see more into the hearts of others, it tought me that everyone of us has pain.

Pain can bring beauty, pain cane teach us, and so can our darks, I am not saying to embrace the darkenss, I am not saying that it is healthy, what I am saying is that in those moments where your tummy is roiling with blackness and you feel as though you could grow claws to rip and render, try to stop and listen , listen to what your dark is trying to tell you, because it's there, it's part of you and it has a lesson to teach you, when you've heard it, thank it, thank it for whatever it was trying to show it, then tell it you don't need it anymore.

I told my dark day fater day "Thanking you, but you can go now" and one day it did.  I still hold part of it, it still wants to visit me from time to time, but then I still myself and listen, and when I do I always seem to learn something new.

~Dancer

< Message edited by desertdancer -- 9/10/2007 7:26:42 PM >


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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/11/2007 7:27:04 AM   
liljoy


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 DV,
wow i can't even imagine how bad that was for you. my own rape was in an army barracks and i blocked out much of the detail including who they were. This started a pattern for me that i'm now trying to break. The pattern was not dealing with things but pretending that everything was ok. Since i didn't know who they were and i didn't want them to know how badly they had destroyed me. i had a brave strong mask up at most all times. i hardly cried about it and never in front of someone that might have been one of them.
i carried a lot of issues as a result of my rape. Because it was 3 days before Christmas i refused to have a tree for 20 years. i had phobias that took me over 20 years to overcome.
i finally figured out that i was still letting them control something they they had no right to and that i could take that control back. Ok yeah so sometimes i'm a slow learner lol.
Since i figured that out i have over come the phobias. i have put up a tree. i'm still working on being able to enjoy Christmas instead of just wishing it would hurry up and go by. i am getting better at that though

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/11/2007 9:44:52 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kimveri

Difficult as that may be to accept, I can’t apologize for the unrelenting truth of it.


Excellent post, Kimveri.

There is nothing so victimizing as the perpetual victim stereotype; it drags people down by the way it permeates society, expectations and so forth. And most survivors I know have at one point or another described the victim support groups as being positive in the beginning, then progressing to become parasitic, much as you have described here. The ideal attitude for society to espouse (in order to minimize the unintentional secondary damages) is that shit happens, then one moves on, with some needing a bit of "extra time" to do so. Allowing the stereotype of the perpetual victim to exist as anything more than a personal choice is disempowering and ultimately damaging.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/11/2007 2:51:07 PM   
ownedgirlie


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I believe feeling victimized is part of the healing process.  Recovering from trauma is so very similar to the Five Stages of Grief.  Because in fact, you are grieving in many ways.

Denial and Anger are the first two stages.  You are still the victim here.  This couldn't have happened to me!  Damnit all, why did this happen to me???  This is still victim mentality, and is totally appropriate for what is happening in your mind at the time as you try to process what has occurred in your life. 

Bargaining is the third stage - still a victim, right?  If I do such and such, maybe this will stop happening...

Depression, the fourth stage, can set in - still a victim.  In many cases, this is where that Darkness sets in, which is what Celeste was talking about in her OP.

Only when we reach Acceptance, the fifth stage, can we shed the victimization.  We are able to take a clear look at what has happened, and decide how we want it to affect us.  This is when we become in control of the trauma and the darkness, rather than letting it control us. 

So don't be too hard on victims.  They just haven't reached Stage 5 yet.

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/11/2007 4:34:41 PM   
Aswad


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ownedgirlie,

First, I'm not hard on anyone; the world is.

Second, my point was more to the effect that the attitude itself is damaging. There would generally be no five stages model, and so forth, if prevailing attitudes were more conducive to healing and putting things behind oneself. In most cases, the bulk of the trauma has been inflicted by the responses to the event, rather than the event itself. Most people I know who have been in such programmes still consider themselves a victim afterwards, fully insistent that it will stay with them for the rest of their lives, or that there has been irreversible damage from the event. That is a choice. And I know people who have made either choice. The ones who make the choice to discard the feedback and opt out of the victim role for good are the ones that have done well.

Third, thanks for the feedback anyhow.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/11/2007 4:54:39 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Aswad,

First, I forgot to write my little ~ FR ~ note to indicate Fast Reply and that I was not speaking to you directly, regarding being hard on victims.  My apologies for that.

I agree that those who have decided they will suffer for the event for ever have indeed made a choice to do so, and I also agree that it is not a healthy choice.  I do think, however, that some things just stay with you forever.  But that doesn't mean they have to victimize you forever.  What my neighbor did to me when I was still too short to brush my teeth without a stepping stool has stayed with me, but it no longer damages me.  It stayed with me because it taught me lessons about life, and it added to shaping who I am today.

But I agree that how we handle things is important.  While we might be a victim from an event, we can choose to remain one or not.  Sometimes, though, it can take years to even get to the point of being able to make that choice.

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/11/2007 4:59:52 PM   
Aswad


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ownedgirlie,

No problem. I agree that things stay with you; all experiences do. I merely meant it in the sense you said, that it doesn't have to be a burden, or a defining element of who you are. One can have been exposed to such a thing and not say "I am a victim" as a statement of identity. And I was not saying it cannot take time to get to the point of making the choice, just that much of the reason for it taking that long is related to the kind of response one gets from society. If there was a general attitude that was less inclined toward the mindset of the perpetual victim, then most would recover a lot sooner, and there would be less reinforcement and validation of their own perception of helplessness.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 12:41:45 AM   
taintedgypsy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

ownedgirlie,

No problem. I agree that things stay with you; all experiences do. I merely meant it in the sense you said, that it doesn't have to be a burden, or a defining element of who you are. One can have been exposed to such a thing and not say "I am a victim" as a statement of identity. And I was not saying it cannot take time to get to the point of making the choice, just that much of the reason for it taking that long is related to the kind of response one gets from society. If there was a general attitude that was less inclined toward the mindset of the perpetual victim, then most would recover a lot sooner, and there would be less reinforcement and validation of their own perception of helplessness.

Health,
al-Aswad.



I disagree, I had no real memories of what happened to me, the aftermath of it was so disturbing that I did not speak for months and when I did I was no longer the little girl I was. I was a princess who loved her rag doll and her dresses ... I became a tom boy who played football and never wore a dress as you could not climb in them. I became an extreemly agressive and angry young woman after I was removed from the violence at 22yrs of age. Plagued by nightmares yet no idea why, only a knowledge that something had happened, no memory. In my early 30s I began to recall somethings that matched with the nightmares but never really dealt with it just buried it as deep as I could dig in my mind. In my 40s I began to question, to wonder at why I was different in many ways. One morning 2 yrs ago I woke up and remembered everything, I pretty much lost my mind over the next 12mths and have been all but a recluse for the last 6 mths dealling with everything and putting myself back together with professional help.

What happened to me as a child and a young adult was without doubt a "defining element" of who I became. I knew I had been a victim, yet had no true knoweldge of just how bad it was and that lack of knowledge kept me a victim long after I termed myself a survivor. If I had known the whole story, if I had have sought help at a younger age, would I have been so angry for so many years?, would I have failed in so many relationships if I had understood where this deep mistrust came from?

"One can have been exposed to such a thing and not say "I am a victim" as a statement of identity."

I feel that sometimes one needs to say this, to relise that they were a victim and have been a victim for long after the fact. I needed to validate why I was the way I was before I could move forward. I needed to stand up and say "YES, I am a victim" and "yes I was and am helpless" ... cry and morn and greive all that was lost ... only then was I able to seek ways to arm myself against helplessness and realise that I was no longer helpless ... only then was I able to make a choice on whether I was going to control my life or whether I was going to allow what happened to control what was left of my life. Only after this statement of my identity was I able to work on reshaping and reinventing my identity.

"If there was a general attitude that was less inclined toward the mindset of the perpetual victim, then most would recover a lot sooner, and there would be less reinforcement and validation of their own perception of helplessness." All the king's horses and all the king's men could not put humpty dumpty back together again.

Perception of helplessness ...
I could not understand why no one came to help when I was raped at 23yrs of age, till I realised that I never made a sound, my screams were only in my head, no one heard them so no one came. I spent a childhood where my only defence was to accept in silence, my only retaliation was that he could not make me scream or beg, I had watched my mother scream and beg, it did her no good and somehow seemed to give him satisfaction ... this silence was my strength as a child yet as an adult was my undoing ... does this make me helpless?
My only escape as a child was to tie myself in a tree and sleep in peace, he could not find me, he could not hurt me ... does this mean I was not helpless? A pitiful little girl asleep tied in a tree, yet I was able to avoid a beating, able to escape my mother's pain that I could not stop, does this make me a coward and helpless?

I would rather society was a little more compassionate, that it did validate and reinforce that there is such a thing as a helpless victim, and not make so many people feel guilt and shame that they should somehow of been able to do something to prevent what happened. Perptual victim is never a choice it is a consequence; bad decissions based on corrupted learning can make someone live a pertual cycle that allows them to become a victim over and over, a life that has left them with so little self worth or value that they believe there is no choice, that they deserve all they get, this can make them a perpetual victim, so damaged and weak within themselves that they can not even make a choice not to be a victim? A society that throws them away as so much flotsum because they are a helpless victim, lacking the skills, learning and self esteem to pull themselves out of this cycle.  Arm them with weapons to survive and build them up,show them compassion, validate their helplessnessand provide them with tools to end it but if it is not possible then do not condemn them, just be grateful that it is not you.

I am a survivor, I am no longer a victim, however I will never "recover". I missed so much crucial learning as a child, my emotions are not what is considered "normal" and they never will be. I will never be who I could have been, I will never reach some expected potential. I can how ever live a full and happy life, I can learn to understand how it is I differ and through understanding I will learn to compensate. Humpty dumpty can be put back together ... but he will never look or be the same as he was, he was to badly damaged.

If someone's leg is shattered, they will limp for the rest of their life, they will be limited in what they can do by the new physical boundries imposed by the injury ... victims are damaged and some can recover and do everything that they could before the incident, but some need to learn to live with there new boundries ... this however need not make them perpetual victims, unless society makes them feel that way.



_____________________________

..."Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... It is about learning to dance in the rain."

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warm smiles to all

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 1:10:59 AM   
BitaTruble


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desertdancer,

i needed a day away from this thread to process and get some of my emotions under control. it's just made my heart ache so much to read so much pain. so, forgive me please, for responding so late.

i think you made a really good point about learning even from the darkest parts of ourselves and i think you're spot on that they're trying to tell us something, even when we may not want to acknowledge it. it's so much easier to run sometimes, but, damn if you don't keep looking over that shoulder and, eventually, it catches up anyway. squeakers made a statement in a private email and i won't share what she said but to say that my eyes have truly been opened to how important it is to turn and face it. for me, that's the only way to conquer the remaining demon.

thank you so much for what you've shared here. indeed, everyone has had their darkness manifest in different ways and i think every time someone tells their own story, there's going to be someone out there that can relate to it. 

celeste




_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 2:12:48 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

ownedgirlie,

No problem. I agree that things stay with you; all experiences do. I merely meant it in the sense you said, that it doesn't have to be a burden, or a defining element of who you are.


i'm having trouble relating to this, aswad. how does one prevent their past from defining them? how does one prevent their past from dictating to them a particular course of action whether due to habitual treatment or not having learned coping tools? what i went through as a child and teenager can't be taken away from my past and it is a part of me and what defines me in the present.

the choices i made as a young adult that got me into a very messy life with master a were made because i had absolutely no understanding about how to make any other kinds of choices. i had a childhood filled with physical, mental, verbal and sexual abuse brought on by drugs, alcohol, incest and pedophila, time spent in the custody of the state etc. the first time cps picked up my brother and i, i was only three. my mother had left my brother and i alone for three days and we were taken to a shelter. idon't know what happened with my brother, but i was stripped, put on a metal table that had holes in it and deloused with a sprayer like the ones exterminators use to kill bugs in the garden. shit like that effects you. it's one of my earliest memories. these were adults who were taking care of me, so this was okay, you know? so when master a took me out to the yard and sprayed me down with a hose, that was okay, too. when my mom beat the crap out of me with a metal rod for not eating what she had cooked, that was okay. she was the adult, she was the one who loved me, right? so when master a beat the crap out of me for not eating what he wanted me to eat, that's what someone does who has your best interest at heart.. right? that's the way my brain worked. that's how it was taught to work. it's easy to say it doesn't have to be a burden or to define you. hell, i wish that were true. i'm of the mind it's damn near impossible for that sort of shit to 'not' define you though. i mean, unless you are completely emotionless, you're going to respond, eventually, if for no other reason than maybe you can avoid getting the shit kicked out of you for a day or two.

quote:

One can have been exposed to such a thing and not say "I am a victim" as a statement of identity.


assuming one believes they even have an identity at all.

nothing, nothing, no body.
no one, no where, guess that's me.

i'd have taken on 'i am a victim' over, 'i'm nothing' any day of the week back then because it would have been an improvement.

quote:

And I was not saying it cannot take time to get to the point of making the choice, just that much of the reason for it taking that long is related to the kind of response one gets from society. If there was a general attitude that was less inclined toward the mindset of the perpetual victim, then most would recover a lot sooner, and there would be less reinforcement and validation of their own perception of helplessness.

Health,
al-Aswad.



perhaps. i don't know. i never let 'society' in on what was going on with me. i didn't know that was an option. i never felt like a victim though. i never felt, period. when i got to the point in my life where i began to make choices for myself, i made all the wrong choices because i simply didn't know how to make the right ones. you don't know what you don't know. if you don't know anything different from what's always been done, how do you set about changing things? what do you do when 'normal' is fucked up beyond the comprehension of most of the rest of humanity?

how does change come about in society? how do attitudes get turned?  i don't think it's an issue of society enforcing a victim mentality.. i think the problem is that society doesn't see there's a problem at all because a whole hell of a lot of us are paralyzed by the dark and can't scream and be heard.. and of course, we don't know that it's okay to scream at all.

it sucks

celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Aswad)
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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 4:50:50 AM   
catize


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quote:

 If someone's leg is shattered, they will limp for the rest of their life, they will be limited in what they can do by the new physical boundries imposed by the injury ... victims are damaged and some can recover and do everything that they could before the incident, but some need to learn to live with there new boundries ... this however need not make them perpetual victims, unless society makes them feel that way.  


Exactly!  How ludicrous to tell the person with a shattered leg,  “It’s not the accident that makes you limp, it’s your reaction to the event that is the problem.  You can choose to walk normally.” 

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 4:55:57 AM   
Aswad


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We're talking about different situations for the most part, BitaTrouble and taintedgypsy.

Sorry if the posting upset you. Elaborating on what was said at this point will not be likely to get the point across, so let me leave it at saying you missed it, and that you may not have been the target audience. The posts may make more sense at a different point in time. I certainly hope so. Please realize that they spring from a place of compassion and understanding.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 7:54:48 AM   
taintedgypsy


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oh Squeakers that was beautiful ... I hope you do not mind but I have printed that poem and added it to my wall collection. A collection of writings that keep my outloook positive ... things I read that make sense of life to me.

thank you

_____________________________

..."Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... It is about learning to dance in the rain."

Equal Opportunity Slut (Yeah ... best of both worlds lol)

warm smiles to all

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 8:04:04 AM   
taintedgypsy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

We're talking about different situations for the most part, BitaTrouble and taintedgypsy.

Sorry if the posting upset you. Elaborating on what was said at this point will not be likely to get the point across, so let me leave it at saying you missed it, and that you may not have been the target audience. The posts may make more sense at a different point in time. I certainly hope so. Please realize that they spring from a place of compassion and understanding.

Health,
al-Aswad.



No hard feelings Aswad, I did not for one minute think that you intended upset or hurt anyone. I accept that your coments came from a place of compassion and understanding, I just do not agree with them. It would be a boring world, if maybe a little less turbulent, if we all agreed all of the time. I am sorry that you feel your point was misunderstood and perhaps you are right and I am not the best target audience.

I wish you well.

_____________________________

..."Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... It is about learning to dance in the rain."

Equal Opportunity Slut (Yeah ... best of both worlds lol)

warm smiles to all

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 8:32:44 AM   
domiguy


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Steps in dealing with loss

1) Denial

2) Anger

3) Bargaining

4) Depression

5) Get on a BDSM website.....What therapist could argue with this approach.

_____________________________



(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 10:04:47 AM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline
i really don't understand your issue with this thread. People are here opening up about real things, painful things that we've gone through and you are making lame ass jokes.

Maybe it's your attempt to lighten things up or maybe you really do want to be as insulting as you are comming across?

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Steps in dealing with loss

1) Denial

2) Anger

3) Bargaining

4) Depression

5) Get on a BDSM website.....What therapist could argue with this approach.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 80
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