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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 11:30:09 AM

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i agree with taintedgypsy, aswad. i never for a moment thought you intended to hurt anyone and i've never seen any indication that you've been anything but thoughtful in your replies on the various forum threads. i wasn't upset by your post but you're right, i don't get it. if you don't believe elaboration will help me see the light on it, then i'll trust your judgement and agree that i probably wasn't the intended audience for it either. no harm, no foul and i appreciate the time you took to respond. if there are any posts here that help anyone then, in my mind, the purpose of the thread has been served. it's about fellowship, nothing more, nothing less.

celeste

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 11:44:10 AM

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I thought it seemed rather obvious....I'm not in anyway saying that having an interest in bdsm is unhealthy...However, there does seem to be a rather alarming connection to past trauma and the connection to participating in bdsm....I personally would steer clear of this individual.

This thread did not start out as a rape or abuse thread...It was someone who detested the way she was treated by one particular Dom....She found it offensive, where others might possibly be currently enjoying the same activity that she found degrading.

Here is the deal....If you have problems sort them out...But you have to realize that there are threads about all types of activity out here....From licking up menstrual blood, dining on scat to spending a great deal of your time in chains or in cages.

You really have to think about where you are posting. What brought you here in the first place? I would rather engage a woman who has made a conscious choice to participate rather than be drawn here by the ghosts from her past.

Yep, my post was definitely a tad bit condescending...It was meant to be. Look, no one should feel ashamed or harbor guilt because they were abused as a child or raped...These are events beyond your control...Perhaps it is a cathartic experience to bring them out to the light of day.....But when you step back and look at your post and then realize it has been posted on a bdsm website....It could make someone question not only why are you here but how well you have actually healed and dealt with the painful experiences that life has thrown at you.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 9/12/2007 11:48:14 AM >

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 12:04:09 PM

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You missed the point of the OP entirely. The OP herself said all those things could be done when coming from a healthy place. She also made clear that her point of this was to reach out to those in the same darkness she was once in.

You say, "If you have problems, sort them out." Great advice. Maybe "sorting them out" for some includes seeing a thread like this to give them that start. Help comes from the strangest of places you know, so I would personally suggest you lighten the hell up.

Stay clear all you want of people with problems. But please also stay out of their way when they're trying to work their way out of them. Your posts, while well within your right to write them, seem totally out of place here, and are strangely absent of your usual fan club who enjoys laughing along with your remarks. The thing is, it's really not funny this time.

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 12:10:07 PM

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it wasn't obvious at least not to me to me it just looked like you were making fun of some people that have gone through some horrid things.

As for the OP i think she did a very good job of explaining that it wasn't as much what he had her do that caused her discussed but her motivation for doing so. i can't be sure but i bet her feelings would be different if her motivation was to please the Dom served out of choice and that treated her like the wonderful person she is

Edited to add feel free to steer clear of those of us with painful pasts. Good luck with that because the truth of the matter is there are perhaps more of us with painful past than without either in BDSM or in nilla life

< Message edited by liljoy -- 9/12/2007 12:14:56 PM >

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 12:21:17 PM

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First off as I stated my post was not intended to be humorous....I do wish everyone a healthy body and mind....However, this is a tad bit paramount to explaining how you are no longer an alcoholic on the Jack Daniel's public forum..

I probably was a little off base in my posts....For that I do apologize if I offended anyone.

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 12:24:43 PM

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liljoy your post reminded me of a conversation I had with my Master recently. He said he sees the resentments I'm still working through, re: my ex, and he can't help but wonder if some day I'll view all the "outrageous" things he does with me as wrong, inappropriate, etc.

I explained to him that what I did for my ex came from a place of fear and worthlessless. And what I do for him, my Master, comes from a place of love and joy. Big difference. One person destroyed me. The other helped to build me back up. One person treated me in ways I never asked for, and didn't want, and begged him to stop doing. The other treats me in ways I beg to be treated, and keep asking for more.

It's a perfect example of a healthy vs. unhealthy relationship, and how in a healthy one, a person can do anything and soar. And....that you can come from a really bad place and still shine with happiness :)

Celeste's thread prompted some great discussions between my Master and I, and prompted a lot of introspective thinking by myself. Since I'm still dealing with issues from my ex, I have been able to take a look at some things that are still troubling me, and find clarity with which to deal with them. The process continues....

(in reply to liljoy)

RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 12:30:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

However, this is a tad bit paramount to explaining how you are no longer an alcoholic on the Jack Daniel's public forum..

There was a place in San Jose, CA, called The Julian Street Inn. It was a homeless shelter, and filled with drunks and addicts. My brother, a recovering addict, used to go there fairly regularly, and speak to those folks. He knew they were a bunch of drunks. He knew his message might only hit one in 500. But if his message could pierce the blackness for just one soul, then he made a difference.

The thing is, who cares where you go to spread your message. Seriously. If you can make a positive difference, even a teeny tiny small difference, in just one person's life...isn't that a good thing?

But your messages have been filled with negativity, in a place where someone is trying to shine light. I see that as far worse than anything akin to alcoholics in JD forums.

edited for a typo, and then again to correct a typo in my edited for a typo comment...

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 9/12/2007 12:34:04 PM >

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 12:54:37 PM

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owned,
exactly!! It's not about what we do it's all about why we do it. I once had a Dom after He learned about me having been raped ask me why i was a submissive. i thought about all the emotional and physical abuse i'd gone through and the rape. Then i looked Him in the eye and said i can give You a thousand reasons why i shouldn't want to be a submissive but only one reason why i am. It's what i am.

When Master has had me do something that i normally wouldn't want to do i've done them. i didn't do them because i feel worthless or like a nothing. i did them because i love Him and i do love to make Him happy and proud

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 12:59:13 PM

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if one person that is in that dark place reads this thread and decides to re evaluate thier reasons for being here. If one person that has fought thier way out of hell and wants to be here but thinks they don't belong because of what they've gone through reads this and feels better about being here then i think they opening up we've done is well worth it

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 2:25:21 PM

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domiguy,

D/s is a personal journey of sorts and if you read the orginal post---it had ALOT to do with BDSM, the man she was with was obviously a Sadist and Bita was the ultimate slave because she had not yet found her ability to say NO. Why---because she was abused. It happens and for many abuse has indirectly brought us to this lifestyle. I doubt many want to take a something they enjoy like this lifestyle and admit that they do, because something so horrible happened in their past but it does happen. If you look beyond the horrors and the insanity, these threads have so much to do with BDSM---sorry but much of this lifestyle is mental, it isn't ALL sex, ALL play.
If you would rather engage with someone who has been brought here for a healthy reason---that's cool. Now you have the chance to weed them out. I think it would be much better for you to know up front than to have someone hide it from you and leave you wondering why she can suddenly take a 360 degree turn at the drop of a hat. I personally would rather know up front that someone is an asshole, before I got involved and the threads allow me to weed them out, so for me it is no problem if they put crap out there and allow me to see for myself that they are not worth my time.

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 3:04:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: liljoy

if one person that is in that dark place reads this thread and decides to re evaluate thier reasons for being here. If one person that has fought thier way out of hell and wants to be here but thinks they don't belong because of what they've gone through reads this and feels better about being here then i think they opening up we've done is well worth it

Good post.

I think that sometimes people forget just how much impact words can have on someone.

I know that I've stumbled across words written by others, words that resonated inside of me and changed the way I thought about something in my own life.

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 6:38:22 PM

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He dips His lid to all:

To Domiguy, out of place full stop. Your preference for staying clear of 'tainted' people applies equally to submissives and
Dominants I assume? It would have been more helpful if you have pointed this out for all concerned. I'm not in anyway saying that having an interest in bdsm is unhealthy...However, there does seem to be a rather alarming connection to past trauma and the connection to participating in bdsm....I personally would steer clear of this individual.

Who is "This Individual"? Any person in Lifestyle- Dom, Sub, Bottom Top rah rah rah? And my most important question is; What in your opinion qualifys a person to be This Individual? Do you accept their learning and healing or discard them outright because the Dom or sub may state they once believed they were worthless? It is because of these questions that your post was 'out of line' and I do not have the perceptions that others have 'irked' from your post.

Maybe it was an 'off Domiguy Day'? Well today is a new day to exhibit a fresher perspective?

Warm regards to all. Driver

< Message edited by Driver1961 -- 9/12/2007 7:22:49 PM >

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 7:20:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

aswad. i never for a moment thought you intended to hurt anyone and i've never seen any indication that you've been anything but thoughtful in your replies on the various forum threads. i wasn't upset by your post but you're right, i don't get it. if you don't believe elaboration will help me see the light on it, then i'll trust your judgement and agree that i probably wasn't the intended audience for it either. EDITED

celeste

He dips His lid to all;

ASWAD made a good point here.   For starters I'd qualify that as a child I wasn't exposed to the deep traumas discussed here. (sumtimes mummy made me eat yukky brussel sprouts or go to bed without tea).

However I will try to qualify ASWAD's post with a summary of my life's experiences relevant to this thread.    I was exposed to many experiences of male submissiveness beyond gentleman's manners and was bullied at primary (elementary?)school where the male behaviours I saw in homelife were played out by me. (I gabbled, two people understood me and my speech impediment labelled me an 'idiot, spastic, etc)
Like part (home) n parcel (school) where both were amalglamated in my actions to a form of 'passive acceptance' that placed my self worth beneath others.   There are other mitigating circumstances/influences here but I'm not playing a violin here.

Secondary School (Junior High) was a huge period of self development where my sense of worth increased substantially. I was actively engaged with peers and pushed myself beyond what I had previously considered my expectations. Expectations that I had felt were imposed by others and I reinforced by my behaviour.

I became a police officer, partly due to my domineering mother's rejection of a job offer that I had preferred and was no longer on offer when I rung them back the next day!!! ( I still have a little trouble over my departed mother having done this)

The police force/department broadened my positive experiences far beyond what I think any other occupation could have done for a late teenager-early adult. I learnt about power plays, dynamics. societal, peer and personal expectations.  Personal ethics developed through these experiences that mostly were negative experiences.   It is the lows that I acknoweldge to exalt the highs to sublimeness. This last line was my essential learning that motivated me towards more self-awareness. The sublimeness enables me to challenge myself and move forward in life with positive motivation.

I question where I would be as a person if I had not spent half a lifetime in the Police Force and am grateful for all experiences - neg and positive , that I have endured or rejoiced.

It is difficult to enthuse another out of a quagmire when they are grasping at the edges and you are enthusing the joys of dancing beyond the quagmire.   This enthusing is a nightmare in itself for the 'troubled One' resorts to their rationale which is considerablely less than yours- consequently they throw clodfulls of mud often knocking you out whilst you juxtapose ways to assist them to remove themselves from the quagmire.   Often the stuck One just can't see your perspective (they are in the mud n you are standing remember!) because they have not progressed to the level you are at. The stuck One is however rejoicing at finding footholds/roots etc (not straws!) and are exalting this to their own sublimeness. A sublimeness that you may understand from your perspective of standing away from the quagmire is a real beginning. To them however it is the pinnacle of what life can constitute for them. The stuck One is simply not able to see your perspective cos they simply aren't able to from the edge of the mud.

Aswad has previously acknowledged in his excellent posts that he has difficulty lowering His perspective to us Peasants. Hey, I like the mud, the earth, the squish n the squash, and having an affinity to it will always cling to it! Yes that is how my childhood has shaped me in part however (yes the Dom but/however!) it has been my ability to walk away from the quagmire, cleanse myself, bask lazily in a peaceful sun that motivates and underpinns who I am today.  My foundations have been reworked and are the strongest that I am able to craft at this point in my life (my perspective)   New experiences and learning spring from this and at times some of these learning will not just be acknowledged and put by my side but the essence of an important learning will be 'mortared in' to my foundations to further strength how high I can rise.

All survivours are told they can rise from the ashes and yes, One must add their ashes (past) to their cement in their new foundation. Therein becomes the area that I believe ASWAD has tried to explain.

Warm regards to all Driver .

< Message edited by Driver1961 -- 9/12/2007 7:46:37 PM >

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 8:26:00 PM

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That's quite a story. It takes strength to see and hang onto all the composite parts of yourself and your past. I will pay attention to what you've said.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 9/12/2007 9:02:14 PM >

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 9:51:37 PM

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He dips His lid to Cloudboy:

Thankyou firstly, and secondly.... I posted a bit about myself attempting to explain in 'life experience terms' (or peasant terms!)what Aswad has said. Aswad speaks firmly from the academic perspective. (I personally am in awe of someone that posts so well and uses English as a second language.)
I find ASWAD's posts very thought provoking and he has acknowledged that He finds it difficult to keep some of His posts K.I.S. I used to say K.I.S.S. until it was pointed out that another (not unlike myself during schooling) could have their own concept of being STUPID reinforced!

Warm regards Driver.

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/12/2007 10:22:43 PM

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A very brave post exposing your raw emotion about the past mistreatment you experienced. I just wonder when you were going through all that if you had read or heard someone else say what you have said here would it have made any difference and caused you to leave rather than stay and keep taking it? I wonder how many who might actually identify with what you have said will take a positive step because of it and decide to get out of a bad situation. You can hear lots of stories of women who have spent years in bad relationships and being treated like shit who didnt get out even when others kept telling them how they should get out and they deserved better and how wrong it was for them to stay and be treated so bad. It wasnt until they finally had enough and decided they werent going to take it anymore that they finally did something about it. The thing that a lot of people fail to realize is that we each make our own misery or happiness by the choices we make. Most people in abusive relationships identify as a victim and dont take responsibility for their part in being in that situation. You sound like you realize now that you were in a bad place mentally and emotionally and that was what set you up for being with someone who treated you badly. You are taking responsibility for your part inwhat happened to you. But a lot of people dont look at their lives that way and they just put the blame on someone else. That is the main message that I took from your post. You should feel proud that you got through that ordeal and have accepted responsibility for how your low self esteem made it possible for someone else to treat you bad. It sounds like the experience made you a stronger person. Congratulations on getting yourself out of that mess and being strong enough to expose your pain in the effort to help others.

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/13/2007 2:52:13 AM

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Domiguy,
I can understand you being leary of someone who has been through a trauma and brought them to this side of the coin. However, I find it sad that you would discount them/us , such raw human emotion can and often does bring with it beauty, learning and clearity.

I found that because of my pain, I am able to understand it in others more, I can see into people more, understand reasons for human actions so much more, then if I had just drifted through life unharmed.

Pain can show a person so many things, it can totally destroy you, leave you for dead and you then have to pick yourself up, claw your way out to stand on your own two feet again, and when that happens, the person is so much stronger and yes healthier then ever before, maybe even stronger and healthier then someone who has not undergone so much torment.

One can feel worthless, one can be abused and broken and then rise, stand tall and find a stillness of calm, find a peace and brightness in life that they may never have known otherwise.

I for one am very thankful for the pain I have felt. I am not thankful for the actions that brought me the pain, but for the experence of it, for the truth in human emotion. Without having to go through what I have, without having to walk the steps I've taken, I would not be who or where I am today. I adore the person I am, the person who climbed through the dark and ashes.

I come into life with open eyes and a ready heart, I am not shut up or restriceted, I feel if my life had happened any other way then it has, I would not be have as loving, giving or strong as I am now.

Although pain sucks, it truely can lend itself to giving beauty, and strength.

~Dancer

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RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/13/2007 7:16:09 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NControlofU

A very brave post exposing your raw emotion about the past mistreatment you experienced. I just wonder when you were going through all that if you had read or heard someone else say what you have said here would it have made any difference and caused you to leave rather than stay and keep taking it? I wonder how many who might actually identify with what you have said will take a positive step because of it and decide to get out of a bad situation. You can hear lots of stories of women who have spent years in bad relationships and being treated like shit who didnt get out even when others kept telling them how they should get out and they deserved better and how wrong it was for them to stay and be treated so bad. It wasnt until they finally had enough and decided they werent going to take it anymore that they finally did something about it. The thing that a lot of people fail to realize is that we each make our own misery or happiness by the choices we make. Most people in abusive relationships identify as a victim and dont take responsibility for their part in being in that situation. You sound like you realize now that you were in a bad place mentally and emotionally and that was what set you up for being with someone who treated you badly. You are taking responsibility for your part inwhat happened to you. But a lot of people dont look at their lives that way and they just put the blame on someone else. That is the main message that I took from your post. You should feel proud that you got through that ordeal and have accepted responsibility for how your low self esteem made it possible for someone else to treat you bad. It sounds like the experience made you a stronger person. Congratulations on getting yourself out of that mess and being strong enough to expose your pain in the effort to help others.

First I would like to say thank you to Celeste for this thread. Your words here are priceless. Sometimes we talk or write of our experiences and our motivation for doing so can not foresee the possible impact that may come of it. I am sure that your words will (and have) hit targets that you never imagined as you sat down and let them come forth. I am sure that there will be a flicker of light in some very dark recesses as a result and you have my heartfelt gratitude for having the courage to share such deeply, personal experiences here.

I wanted to touch on some things that NControlofU has said here. Sometimes bad shit can happen to good people....it's how we come out on the other side that stands as testament to who we are. You said "The thing that a lot of people fail to realize is that we each make our own misery or happiness by the choices we make.". I am very glad that you said this. I have said it too and sometimes I have been accused of "blaming the victim" for doing so. There is a huge difference between taking on blame, fault or guilt and seeing and accepting your own responsibility for you part. I believe that when that realization comes into view, it is often the defining moment in the transition from being a victim to becoming a survivor.

I have written many posts here on these boards detailing some very dark and traumatic events in my life. I have also expressed where I have felt my responsibility lay in those events. Nearly without fail, when I have done so, someone has come forward with the intention of support to tell me that "it wasn't my fault and I should not blame myself". One does not have to see fault and accept blame to rationally assess their part. It is from that assessment and acceptance that lessons are learned and growth can occur.

I understand where Domiguy is coming from. I see many people who are searching for something or someone who will "fix" them here. I think that not wanting to become involved with people who are looking for such is healthy and valid. I don't think that he is saying that he doesn't want to be involved with anyone who has ever had anything bad happen to them...I think he is saying that he doesn't want to be involved with people who may be loudly proclaiming that they are a "survivor" when in reality they are still in "victim" mode, even though they may not be conciously aware of that. I have met many people in this lifestyle who are here from that "dark" place....and many who I think are here because on some level they feel they are worthless and deserve nothing more than pain and humiliation. Even an abusive situation can be a "familiar safe place" to some who are not ready or incapable of owning the responsibility for themselves and taking the necessary steps to learn, grow and move forward. It is my sincere hope for them that there will be a moment in their lives when they have that awakening and can successfully make that transition from "victim" to "survivor".

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Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to NControlofU)

RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/13/2007 7:28:58 AM

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Domiguy,

You are well entitled to your feelings, beliefs and preferences, but I have to agree with those who feel your remarks were out of line in this thread. We can't all be perfect and never have made mistakes or been hurt and quite frankly I know the things I dealt with have strengthened me for having overcome them and the fallout from them.

It really bothers me when someone spouts off about abuse victims/survivors finding bdsm and that the abuse is what led them to find it and embrace it. I know it's that way for some, but definitely not all and blanket statements are rarely ever completely accurate.

I know in my case it had nothing to do with me finding and getting into this, if anything it made me very cautious and leary when I did discover this, made me take time to read and ask questions and learn all I could before accepting it as any part of my life. I did a lot of soul searching also to determine if any part of this fit me, was right for me.

My past is my past. It happened. I can't change it, but I sure as hell don't have to let it run the rest of my life. I have fought long and hard to deal with it, overcome it, get past it. It no longer runs my life. It has shaped me into the person I am today, but was not what led me to bdsm. I am a much better and stronger person than I ever was before now, because I chose to overcome my past and live.

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(in reply to desertdancer)

RE: Feelings of worthlessness - 9/13/2007 8:09:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I understand where Domiguy is coming from. I see many people who are searching for something or someone who will "fix" them here. I think that not wanting to become involved with people who are looking for such is healthy and valid. I don't think that he is saying that he doesn't want to be involved with anyone who has ever had anything bad happen to them...I think he is saying that he doesn't want to be involved with people who may be loudly proclaiming that they are a "survivor" when in reality they are still in "victim" mode, even though they may not be conciously aware of that. I have met many people in this lifestyle who are here from that "dark" place....and many who I think are here because on some level they feel they are worthless and deserve nothing more than pain and humiliation. Even an abusive situation can be a "familiar safe place" to some who are not ready or incapable of owning the responsibility for themselves and taking the necessary steps to learn, grow and move forward. It is my sincere hope for them that there will be a moment in their lives when they have that awakening and can successfully make that transition from "victim" to "survivor".

I was going to give this thread a rest....I could have never of phrased my thoughts as eloquently as you have....I am nothing but a bull in a china shop rammed in to a virgin's honey pot.

quote:

mistoferin
I don't think that he is saying that he doesn't want to be involved with anyone who has ever had anything bad happen to them.

Well actually that was kind of exactly what I was alluding too....Hang nail, menstrual cramps, facial hair?...You know where the door is.

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(in reply to mistoferin)

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