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RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/17/2005 11:40:27 AM

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quote:

So, from the human perspective which God gave me, much of the suffering in the world could be prevented by God without interfearing with free will. God is omnipotent. He could stop natural disasters without altering human's abiliyt to choose their own fate. As I see it, that means that he must NOT be omnibenevolent, because he obviously doen't care enough to remove that suffering from the world.

Like I have said before, from my personal view, God is omni - but not benevolent. I think He can be incredibly jealous and selfish. But He also understands the concept of 'if you love something, you will let it free'.

If God intervened - that would take away our free will - because it would condition us. I think that if He was to take all the suffering away - it would be comletely selfish on His part - like trying to 'buy' mans affection - and as much as he loves us - IMO -he isn't going to do that.

Again, just my opinion.

Peace and Love

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RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/17/2005 11:48:19 AM

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quote:

I also cannot imagine what lessons about sin all the infants supposedly learned when they were destroyed by the tsunami. That's not a great way to teach.

Interesting point. But just for a moment - if I can ask - step back from the 'sin' part and then look at say - the Tsunami.

If we allow the earth to degenerate and be effected by our lack of care - more floods, eathquakesa and disatsters will occur. We should learn to listen. To me - trating the earth like humans do, yes, is a sin. What have those children or adults learnt of sin? I can't answer that - but what can WE learn, if anything?

An interesting fact that barely any animals died - many were found on high ground. Why is that? Animal'sense'? Or do they 'listen' to something that humans seem incapable of listening to? Why is it that some humans had the instinct to run away before the Tsunami hit?

Isn't it all about listening?

Peace and Love

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RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/17/2005 1:54:51 PM

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So you mean that the people who knew to run away deserved to survive, and the people who didn't--well, they just deserved to die?

I agree that we are doing horrible and self-destructive things to the environment, but earthquakes are one thing we don't cause. Nothing anyone did caused the tsunami. And even if, for the sake of argument, someone IS guilty of causing a tsunami, I can't respect a God who would make millions of innocent people die because of it.

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RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/17/2005 2:34:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

*snip* Too long to quote.

First. W/we have a finite mind. God has an infinite mind. There is a reason for that. We are not to know the mind of God. It is not O/our business to do so. O/ours is to either believe by faith or pretend that W/we are smart and attempt to wipe it all away with a feeble humanistic explanation.

Quite simply put, W/we can not HANDLE the mind of God. If you were able to comprehend what He can comprehend you would lose your mind. you are in a need to know position and you do not need to know, so please do not presume to impress Me with your "intellect".

People suffer for the greater good. People die for the greater good. I have been through hell in My life and in some cases it has yet to become apparent why, and in other cases it became immediately apparent. God used what I went through for the good of others, and the betterment of Myself, and that made it all worthwhile. I am not sitting here like some people crying the blues wondering "Why Me? If God was so great why would He make Me go through this?" I have instead turned around and made something of it.

Perhaps people needed to die that others might live. Perhaps it is the planet's way of enforcing the natural evolution of things, a population control where the strong survive (after all this has only been going on for millions of years... It is called natural selection). Perhaps people needed to suffer to minister that they might minister to others, as is the case with My mother and the apostle Paul, as was correctly and aptly pointed out.

The point is, that philo degree or no, you really have no clue, so I would stop laughing if I was you. O/our finite minds can comprehend nothing, so it does not bode well on someone to pretend like they can while smugly laughing at others. It does nothing to paint them in a good light. Remember, it is faith, not your pretend intellect, that will make the final decision on Judgement Day.

Just be thankful, as I am, that God did not burden U/us with the ability to think like Him. I could not handle that responsibility and I know for sure there is not one person reading this that could either.

Second. Science.

What I meant was that there were various studies. Although W/we as man identified the studies, W/we did not invent geology per se. W/we did not invent physics, nor math. W/we did not invent the chaos theory (have you ever studied that? Believe Me, it is fascinating). There are so many more natural sciences. Social sciences. etc. W/we invented NONE of them. What W/we DID do was finally figure out how to quantify them and put a label to them.

God does not cause those events to happen. They happen for natural causes that man has since figured out how to quantify. Blaming God is immature and denies sound scientify principles and free will.

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RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/17/2005 2:53:49 PM

perverseangelic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin
First. W/we have a finite mind. God has an infinite mind. There is a reason for that. We are not to know the mind of God. It is not O/our business to do so. O/ours is to either believe by faith or pretend that W/we are smart and attempt to wipe it all away with a feeble humanistic explanation.

Quite simply put, W/we can not HANDLE the mind of God. If you were able to comprehend what He can comprehend you would lose your mind. you are in a need to know position and you do not need to know, so please do not presume to impress Me with your "intellect".

EXACTLY!! That's what I said. We only have the human perspective. God wants us to only have a human perspective. We can only judge from a human perspective and since God has given us that perspective, we are totally justified in judging from it. It's what God's given us to go from. For him to fault us for working from what he's given is a little...well....messed up.

Re: Human suffering
Ok. People die so others live. I'm fine with that. Why doesn't God get rid of the removable suffering that doesn't defy free will?

quote:

The point is, that philo degree or no, you really have no clue, so I would stop laughing if I was you.

No philo degree ;) One philo class. Had fun in it. Am laughing because I'm watching the arguments I studied get played out. It's fun to see the stuff that you study get done, nearly word for word, by people arguing.

quote:

O/our finite minds can comprehend nothing, so it does not bode well on someone to pretend like they can while smugly laughing at others. It does nothing to paint them in a good light. Remember, it is faith, not your pretend intellect, that will make the final decision on Judgement Day.

I believe in God, friend. I'm thinking it isn't exactly the same God you believe in, but I believe in an omnibenevolent, omnitient God that cares for us and is invovled in my every day life. I've sorted the "problem of evil" out for myself and am content with my solutions. Doesn't make me want to stop arguing it. My faith doesn't make me want to stop asking others to explain theirs. God knows I've explained mine enough. I see no reason to defend it, though, because to me it's never under attack. My faith is a personal realtionship between me and the Gods I worship. 's all that matters to me.

Here's what I'm trying to say--our minds are finite, so we can't comprehend the "universal plan" but God must have intended our minds to be finite. However, God has also created humans who want to know everything, and given humans the drive to understand the universe. I don't believe that God, giving us the brains he gave us, wants us to sit back and say 'well, my mind is finite so I'm going to stop looking for answers."

I believe that as finite, fallable beings, we are intitled to learn, and discuss, and yes, judge from that perspective. I don't believe we should be told those judgements are invalid because they are from a finite perspective. I believe judgements are invalid when one has access to another perspective and chooses not to use it. We don't. We go from what we've got, God made us this way. Anyone who says we do not have hte right to continue to question from the perspective instilled in us by God is, in my mind, saying that God screwed up and should have given us a bigger perspective.

quote:

What I meant was that there were various studies. Although W/we as man identified the studies, W/we did not invent geology per se. W/we did not invent physics, nor math. W/we did not invent the chaos theory (have you ever studied that? Believe Me, it is fascinating). There are so many more natural sciences. Social sciences. etc. W/we invented NONE of them. What W/we DID do was finally figure out how to quantify them and put a label to them.

Ok, we were saying the same thing, with different terms. Man -did- make science, because science is a human concept. We discover new things to name, but "science," any science, is not a naturally occuring thing. It's a human expression of naturally occuring things. I think we're agreeing here.

quote:

God does not cause those events to happen. They happen for natural causes that man has since figured out how to quantify. Blaming God is immature and denies sound scientify principles and free will.

So God lacks controll over natural events? Techincally, everything that happens is "God's fault" because God allows it to happen. To say something is other than God's fault states that he could -not- controll it if he saw fit. That's a tangent I have no desire to go on though.

I'm not saying that God needs to step in and stop me from stubbing my toe. I'm saying that events which bring about suffering through no human cause--the tsunami for example--are suffering that is NOT caused by human action/innaction. Rather, it's caused by the natural laws of the natural world. Laws which God set in motion. As such, God could stop those events from occuring, prevent huge amounts of suffering, and never violate human free will.

If, for example, we seeded clouds and created a killer tornado, I'd say that's pretty much our fault, and to step in would be to violate the will he's given us. However, to stop something like the Northridge Quake, which human foces did not set in motion, doesn't violate free will and, again, prevents suffering. How, then, can God be benevolent and allow this to happen?

quote:

Dark~Angel
Like I have said before, from my personal view, God is omni - but not benevolent. I think He can be incredibly jealous and selfish. But He also understands the concept of 'if you love something, you will let it free'.

That definition of God is cool ;) Using such a definition my arguments are pointless. You win. :)

(Incedentally, I rather like your God. S/he seems like a pretty neat diety. Doesn't quite jive with mine, but it seems like you've got your relationship worked out. I like reading your posts because you seem secure in your relationship with God and secure in the understanding that people disagreeing doesn't lessen your relationship. Thank you for your posts.)

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RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/17/2005 3:50:09 PM

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quote:

So you mean that the people who knew to run away deserved to survive, and the people who didn't--well, they just deserved to die?

No, not at all - what I am saying is, we, as humans(collective) seem to have lost the ability to hear. Now, asa religious person, I would obviously say - thats God - but say, someone who is a follower of science - they might say, it's intuition or some sort of sense. Either way, we have somehow lost that ability. If the animals could sense it and run or move out of harms way, why could not humans?

quote:

I agree that we are doing horrible and self-destructive things to the environment, but earthquakes are one thing we don't cause. Nothing anyone did caused the tsunami. And even if, for the sake of argument, someone IS guilty of causing a tsunami, I can't respect a God who would make millions of innocent people die because of it.

Not knowing a huge amount on the cause of earthquakes, I can only speak as I have heard 'second hand' as it were - but if earthquakes occurring due to plates moving - whether that is man made or not - we should be looking into why we insist on putting ourselves at risk.
Why are their no defenses? Why do we allow people to live in such a beautiful place without help? Why do we populate parts of the world that are known for their irratic tornados or fault lines? When animals can 'sense the danger, flee before hand, or just choose not to set up 'home'.

I am not sure if I am making much sense. Lots of people centre on the word 'sin' as though its all adultery and sex (I am not saying you LaM - just saying that sin is generalised into specific forms) alot of that is to do with the church, especially in the past and now, in the present, the fundemental movements - and it's really not even close. Sin is like - just not listening - not helping fellow man - not taking responsibility for ones own action.

Not sure if I am making any sense.

As for not respecting God who would make people die - it's not His responsibilty - nor choice. He had to give over to free will because that is what we chose. It's like a parent - when the child comes of age - you can keep digging them out of trouble and trying to save them - but no child will learn if you keep bailing them out. It would just become like some manipulation. Still not sure if I make much sense here.

Anyway - thanks for the reasoned discussion LaM.

Peace and Love

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RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/17/2005 3:57:20 PM

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quote:

(Incedentally, I rather like your God. S/he seems like a pretty neat diety. Doesn't quite jive with mine, but it seems like you've got your relationship worked out. I like reading your posts because you seem secure in your relationship with God and secure in the understanding that people disagreeing doesn't lessen your relationship. Thank you for your posts.)

perverse - thank you for your kind words - actually 'needed' that today - so thank YOU bigtime. Maybe you and your God 'n' me and my God can all go out for a latte sometime?

Peace and Love, wise one

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RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/17/2005 3:59:06 PM

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See, I get the free-will argument. I don't get how it explains tsunamis.

There isn't a spot on earth where we could live without danger from earthquakes--and volcanos too, incidentally. We are on a living planet, and living planets have earthquakes and volcanos. (Planets that don't, like the moon, are dead.) Come to think of it, it's disturbing that God would force us to live on a planet where it's inevitable that innocent people will be killed.

I'm left with one of these three choices:

1. God doesn't give a shit.
2. God does give a shit, but can't do better.
3. God doesn't exist.

Edited to add: I agree with what perverseangelic said about you:

quote:

I like reading your posts because you seem secure in your relationship with God and secure in the understanding that people disagreeing doesn't lessen your relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

As for not respecting God who would make people die - it's not His responsibilty - nor choice. He had to give over to free will because that is what we chose. It's like a parent - when the child comes of age - you can keep digging them out of trouble and trying to save them - but no child will learn if you keep bailing them out. It would just become like some manipulation. Still not sure if I make much sense here.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 7/17/2005 4:01:33 PM >

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RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/17/2005 4:25:06 PM

perverseangelic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

perverse - thank you for your kind words - actually 'needed' that today - so thank YOU bigtime. Maybe you and your God 'n' me and my God can all go out for a latte sometime?

Peace and Love, wise one

Sounds like a plan :) Thank you, all of us over here appreciate it.

I'm very much enjoying this discussion.

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RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/17/2005 11:12:59 PM

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http://www.booksofthebible.com/p4577.html
hello everybody, I am enjoying this thread immensely. Thanks to everyone for seriously considering my contribution.

LaM;
My whole point was that God uses these events to bring people into relationship with Him. I realize that determining whether all events are His decision to allow or interfere with is a hard thing to do. But determining whether His is the best way to live is so simple a child can accept or reject.

DarkAngelic;
I should correct myself on your point. You are correct, we are to decide whether we want to be in relationship with God, that means using our judgement (common sense) in regard to Him. However, trying to comprehend an infinite Being with finite minds is an exercise in futility. We must decide whether He is for us or against us, not that we have to comprehend what He is.
I can't work on it tonight but thought, if you really want answers, the best source I know of is a book by Gregory Boyd and Edward Boyd, called "Letters From a Skeptic" and can be found at the above link.

This is the letters shared between a retired professor atheist and his Christian son in seminary. (Preacher Training School) Very well thought out questions and answers covering all these topics.

It may be the end of the week before I can contribute again, though I will try to make it sooner.

Bob

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/18/2005 3:19:59 AM

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My belief differs in the fact that my God has shown me that I don't have a finite mind. Scientists already know that we use much less of our brain than is capable anyway, but thats not really the bigger issue. A finite mind depends on the body. But my belief is in being shown that, because I am more than just a mortal body, due to Gods wisdom,, I am spirit, I have soul(cue James Brown) - then I have the capability of infinite thought. The mind of my spirit has the capability to be as infinite as God, when He allows it. Because Man is made in Gods image, that means everything, including the ability to have the possiblity of an infinite mind. Gods gift to me, is the possibility of infinity. Whether I choose to accept that gift is up to me, my free will. That won't ever make it 'mine' because it still belongs to God - but belonging to Him means that I am all He is. Through His will, all is possible and I can be exactly who I am without fear.

I am not sure if this makes much sense to anyone else - I know that I can comprehend this concept, but doesn't mean it will sit right for everyone, it's just my own personal belief.

Peace and Love

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RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/18/2005 8:12:59 AM

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[font="Verdana"]

The immutable question of a believer is not why is there evil in the world (e.g., why did God permit the Holocaust to occur?) but why are there natural disasters that cause so much death and sufferring (e.g., the tisamia.)Hurricane Andrew was bad enough, but at least few deaths were associated with it. i cannot posit any good coming from such events; they do not reinforce my beliefs. Instead, they strain them.

"Science" does not explain their occurence. "Natural laws" or "Natural forces" does; things such as gravity; air pressure; heat; and so forth. They are amoung the occurences studied by meterologists. However, meterology does not create natural disasters.

i have no answers. i do not know.

pleasureforHim

< Message edited by pleasureforHim -- 7/18/2005 8:22:07 AM >

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RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/18/2005 9:23:34 AM

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If W/we were to have an infinite mind and see God and God's plan, then what is the sense of faith? Y/you have just undermined the whole process and negated the entire Biblical concept.

No, W/we walk this earth based on faith. W/we do not have an infinite mind. W/we can not will it to be infinite on O/our commands. W/we can not just flick a switch and suddenly see things as God does. That makes no logical or Biblical sense. There is a reason that things are happening the way they are. I know that science has come up with sound evidence to prove it. I know that God works for the greater good, so I know to some extent why He intervenes in some cases and not others. I know that humans do not have the built in radar for an impending disaster the way animals have. I know humans can not begin to think or comprehend in infinite terms. Hell, humans can not even grasp a God that did not create the world in six literal days. Humans can not grasp an infinite universe. Humans can not grasp anything other than linear time. Most humans can not grasp the Chaos Theory (the real one, not the Jurassic Park one).

Humans want to define these things because they can not possibly handle not knowing. It drives them crazy... Well, give it up and let faith take over. If Y/you do not WANT to believe, no amount of wasting time in this thread is going to change anything.

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RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/18/2005 10:12:08 AM

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I am assuming that your post is directed to me, rather than fille?

(re - your post is replied to her, but I am assuming, maybe incorrectly that due to you speaking about finite/infinite that would be me...lol)

Anyways - I don't see how beleiving in the possibility of an infinte mind, due to Gods will, underminds the bible. For one thing, man is made in Gods image - so therefore if it is His Desire to make my mind infinite, He would. But He would also be able to make it finite - and if He did that He would allow that person to cope with it. Agreed you can't choose it, thats Gods decision. Therefore, I have the possibility of having a finite mind, under the grace of God. People thought that Jesus or a son of God would not have been possible - but it was(if you believe in such) - so therefore, the reality is that you can't say that a person will never have an infinite mind, but that under Gods grace it is possible. It would not be up to a human to deny that which God would want? Most people view 'God almighty' using a finite mind - and cannot fully comprehend Jehovah. Once you see past the finite, then it's different entirely.

Besides, where does prophecy come from? It can't come from a finite mind - it can't come from faith - so where does it come from? Prophecy is God revealing the infinate - a taste of what lies beyond the finte mind.

Anyways - digressing again. You speak of an infinite universe - but that could be discussed that it isn't, speaking in a biblical term and in scientific terms. And the 'not all humans cannot grasp that the world etc = 6 exact days ' isnt true either - alot of people can understand the concept of time and space and realise that six days isn't necessarily 24 hrs x 6.

I don't think this thread is a waste of anyones time - Its fantastic to read such diverse ideas and throw a bunch of thoughts around. Belief or not.

Peace and Love

< Message edited by dark~angel -- 7/18/2005 10:14:21 AM >

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RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/18/2005 11:26:16 AM

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quote:

Good grief. Once again..i ask the question..do You guys always sit around thinking of ways to annoy one another by announcing/trashing one another's beliefs?

Why find this annoying? Debate is essential and healthy. The best debates occur when both sides are adamant in their positions. More is learned in that environment than in one where everyone agrees. If a hell for me did exist it would be filled with people agreeing with me and my beliefs. I know some people can't tolerate an opposing view point. Perhaps it's because they are so unsure in their position they don't want it challenged.

I don't see much "trashing". I see good thought on both sides. "Faith" is to be envied. kisshou's "I don't know", and knees2you's faith are not "blind" they come from a pure belief and confidence. There was and is a legitimate personal reason for this thread. Like LAM, there is still a part of me that craves, as he says; "to see things YOUR way", wants understanding and has a desire to "believe". I see it every day in beth's faith and belief. I don't have it. I can't reconcile it with the world around me in a logical manner. Adding a "devil" to the equation only makes matters worse. Any of his evil "accomplishments" only further denigrates the assumed power of a deity in any religious context.

Giving all the power and knowledge assigned to a deity by any religion it does not make sense that the power is wasted on this concept of "free will" to the point of current world suffering. I see no benevolence or love in the rationalization of the "free will" card. The opposite of love isn't hate - it's ignoring the other party. I'd rather that no god existed than that he did and had such callousness. "God's will" doesn't work for me as an excuse or a protracted rationalization.

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RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/18/2005 12:09:33 PM

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dark, prophecy is not a view into the infinite. There are two types of prophecy. In Biblical times it was God speaking to the prophets, giving them a message, giving them a "cause and effect" scenario to pass on to the intended audience. This no longer happens and will never happen again until the return of Christ.

The other is the prophecy of "studying the past if you would divine the future" as O/our friend Confucius once said.

Infinite, on the other hand, is grasping a God that has no beginning and will have no end. See if you can flick the switch long enough to comprehend that brain-full. lol.

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 7/18/2005 12:10:01 PM >

_____________________________

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RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/18/2005 2:45:57 PM

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A Friend of mine ex-military, ex-navy seal, current lifestyle advocate and partitioner, and VERY sure in the existence of god, sent me this story. Whether it's true or just Navy Seal legend (or just his BULLS--T for that matter) is for another debate. But I'll post it as his proof that - god does exist!

quote:

Two things Navy Seals are always taught:

1. Keep your priorities in order.

2. Know when to act without hesitation.

A college professor, an avowed atheist and active in the ACLU, was teaching his class. He shocked several of his students when he flatly stated that for once and for all he was going to prove there was no God.

Addressing the ceiling he shouted: "GOD, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you exactly 15 minutes!!!"

The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop. Ten minutes went by. "I'm waiting God, if you're real, knock me off this platform!!!"

Again, after 5 minutes, the professor taunted God saying, "Here I am, God!!! I'm still waiting!!"

His count down got down to the last couple of seconds when a SEAL , just released form the Navy after serving in Afghanistan and Iraq, newly registered in the class, walked up to the Professor.

The SEAL hit him full force in the face and sent the Professor tumbling from his lofty platform.

The Professor was out cold. The students were stunned and shocked. They began to babble in confusion. The SEAL nonchalantly took his seat in the front row and sat quietly.

The class looked at him and fell silent....waiting. Eventually, the Professor came to and was noticeably shaken.

He looked at the SEAL in the front row.

When the Professor regained his senses and could speak he asked: "What the heck is the matter with you? Why did you do that?"

"God was busy protecting America's soldiers, who are protecting your right to say stupid crap and act like a jerk!!

So he sent me."

God does work in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform.

I want you all know that he is visiting me and beth sometime in August or September and if beth is posting as a single slave looking for a new Master this thread may be have been the cause. The "lol" or smiley face indication of his "just joking" was noticeable in it's absence on the email.

(in reply to SirKenin)

RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/18/2005 3:54:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I'm left with one of these three choices:

1. God doesn't give a shit.
2. God does give a shit, but can't do better.
3. God doesn't exist.

I wish I were better at analogies (maybe dark~angel will help me out).

In religion God is given a parental role because like a parent , God created us. (us meaning humans)

When God created us , God gave us paradise to live in.

Then God gave us a rule.

We (Adam/Eve) broke the rule.

This angered God. (if omnibenevolent means never getting angry , then God is not omnibenevolent)

Then God said 'you are now being punished leave paradise and suffer . (this explains war, poverty, death etc)

Then like alot of parents God realized we were not learning anything, so God decided to give us a second chance.

So since God really loves us , God sent Jesus to teach us.

If all of us lived like Jesus taught us, we would once again have paradise here.

Like parents with more than one child, God realized this would not be fair to punish both children, in case one child did as he was taught, but another child didn't.

So God gave us a time limit. If we (humans) have not shaped up by that time, God is going to end everything and then judge us all (including those who have already died). If we lived on earth as God taught us, we go to paradise. If not, we are up a creek without a paddle.

You might say that thousands of years is a long time for a punishment or you can look at it as God being really patient and loving by giving us alot of time to live like God taught us and re-establish paradise.

Like alot of parents, God believes in us and has hope for us and so is not giving up easily by just ending things quickly.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/18/2005 5:49:09 PM

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

Infinite, on the other hand, is grasping a God that has no beginning and will have no end. See if you can flick the switch long enough to comprehend that brain-full. lol.

*click*
lol

I can grasp that concept, which is why I know and understand the difference between an infinite God and a finite universe.

quote:

dark, prophecy is not a view into the infinite. There are two types of prophecy. In Biblical times it was God speaking to the prophets, giving them a message, giving them a "cause and effect" scenario to pass on to the intended audience. This no longer happens and will never happen again until the return of Christ.

I would disagree - prophecy happens - not just in the past - but now. Or do you really believe that God just stopped His works through people? Are you in the belief with a certain sect of the church that miracles ended with the end of the apostles?
Have you ever seen a prophecy receieved and given out and/or seen it fullfilled? Seen Angels? Anything? Heard about it? Lived it vicariously? Or is it that your finite mind will not comprehend because you believe in the finite, because to believe in the infinite would mean having to accept Gods works?

quote:

The other is the prophecy of "studying the past if you would divine the future" as O/our friend Confucius once said.

Prophecy takes many forms, not just the spoken word of God. But His works, dreams, visions, and touching the heart of God or rather being touched by God(the infinite), to see something as He sees it. He cannot be constrained to a closed view of who He is or what He does.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to SirKenin)

RE: "Acts of God" Riddle - 7/18/2005 5:57:13 PM

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

I think your analagy is doing fine all by yourself.

One thing I will add though, is that a thousand years, may only be a day in Gods eyes - even a second - similar to Kenins though about some people being unable to realise the concept of the creation not actually being 6 liner days. A lifetime to us maybe nothing more than in inhaling of a breath to God - and the possibilty of the infinate mind allows understanding of such a concept.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to kisshou)

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