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RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 9:34:22 AM   
MySweetSubmssive


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From: Lehigh Valley, PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

When women claim abortion is traumatic, I think they are just fishing for the sympathy vote.


What a ridiculous statement ...


I agree with this.  On what basis do you make this statement, meatcleaver?  This is one of those statements -- like "Some women have abortions like they have their hair done" -- that I find to be clueless and without foundation.

MSS

< Message edited by MySweetSubmssive -- 10/7/2007 9:36:36 AM >


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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 9:39:29 AM   
sexyred1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

When women claim abortion is traumatic, I think they are just fishing for the sympathy vote.


What a ridiculous statement ...


I agree with this.  On what basis do you make this statement, meatcleaver?  This is one of those statements -- like "Some women have abortions like they have their hair done" -- that I find to be clueless and without foundation.

MSS


Agreed. One reason why men should not be allowed to discuss things that pertain to women, like abortion. Until you experience the situation first hand, refrain from your ludicrous statements. You must be out of your mind to think abortion is not traumatic, whatever the reason.

P.S. obviously meant for meatcleaver, not poster above.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 10/7/2007 9:40:42 AM >

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RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 9:57:37 AM   
Level


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Of course, abortion does pertain to men, and as far as "allowing men to discuss" it.......... right.
 
Having said that, I generally disagree with what MC said, regarding trauma, or the lack of.
 
As for the reasons behind abortion, the overwhelming majority are indeed for "convinience".

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 9:58:44 AM   
ChicagoSwitchMal


Posts: 417
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

When women claim abortion is traumatic, I think they are just fishing for the sympathy vote.


What a ridiculous statement ...


I agree with this.  On what basis do you make this statement, meatcleaver?  This is one of those statements -- like "Some women have abortions like they have their hair done" -- that I find to be clueless and without foundation.

MSS


Agreed. One reason why men should not be allowed to discuss things that pertain to women, like abortion. Until you experience the situation first hand, refrain from your ludicrous statements. You must be out of your mind to think abortion is not traumatic, whatever the reason.

P.S. obviously meant for meatcleaver, not poster above.


Although I agree that the statement was ludicrous I have to object with your assertion that "men should not be allowed to discuss things that pertain to women." Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Even if it is a ludicrous one. A man is free to set and discuss his beliefes on this subject as with any other. As are women.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 10:48:26 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

A woman should have ownership of her reproductive rights, with no interference from anyone.  This includes the right to give birth, use birth control, obtain abortion, sterilization.


Since when was murder a right?

I get the whole "it's my body" bit.  I'd like point out that, when the baby is developing, you're "eatting for two" because there are, indeed, two bodies.  I can not see how you can possibly be so cynical as to argue that the second life is so unimportant as to its life terminable at the first life's whim.

To be earnest with you, such a notion is as disgusting as the idea that I should have the rights to do whatever I want with my body.  Such as lifting my arm in a swift fashion, regardless of the person next to me.  Who cares if I punch them?  It's my body!  My right!  Their life doesn't matter.  And, if I'm one who cares so little for others that I don't mind punching them, I should legally be allowed to.


I think you are chasing your tail here....But let's assume that your stance is correct and your view is adopted as law.....I would then insist that every police department would have to do a potential murder investigation for every single miscarriage that occurs in this country....If the woman in question was ordered to bed rest but had to go to work, smoked cigs, drank alcohol, exercised, Took any type of medication that might harm the "manbryo," or indulged in any type of an activity that placed her lil' adult at risk....Then she should face charges of at least  "cell-slaughter" all the way up to potentially murder....I have to admit that the thought of millions and millions of women "lezzing" out in prison is kinda hot....But overall, Tis a ridiculous notion.

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RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 11:54:33 AM   
OrionTheWolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
This also does not take into account any rights the Father may have.

Orion


I hear this argument a lot, but there is a very simple answer -- men *do* have a choice.  They have a choice whether to have unprotected sex.  In my eyes, the central argument of abortion is control.  Pro-choice women want to control what happens with their own bodies.  Men want to control what happens with their spunk ... and some men regretably want to control their partner in a non-consensual way.

If you, as a man, do not condone abortion, then make sure that your sperm doesn't make it's way into a woman.



And if the conception occured during a time of agreement to have the child? Does not the female bear equal accountability?

If the Father is held leaglly responsible, if the child comes to full term, then is it not equaitable to give them equal say in whether an abortion is performed?

What of a female that has unprotected sex, and knows that the man involved will not be their life partmer, nor a good Father, why is it only the male is held accountable and responsible?

I believe these are often complex questions, that many people try to create easy answers to.

I forgot to mention in my original post something I have been saying to Anti-choicers and Pro-Deathers (damn perspective means alot). The problem is not with abortion, but with unwanted pregnancy. Address the real problem, and the symptom will reduce itself.

Orion

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 12:25:11 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

From what I have studied, and I claim to be no expert, nor am I judging anyone here, yes, abortion if murder.  If personality is conceived at conception, then I believe life would start at conception.
Yes, we must have the right to choose because sometimes we make wrong choises in life; however, if we educate ourselves on t his subject when we are young, we may start to realize that abortion is wrong.  You have to go back to the cause of the problem.  It is not in the water.
In my humble opinion, abortion is a personal choice.  So my choice is it is not an option for me.  I have my hystrectomy and don't have to worry.
All I am saying is be responsbile for your actions and we won't have to use it, but we cannot change the law.

It is a personal choice for the woman to make regardless if it is pro or against.


I can't possibly agree with you.. that women should have the right to commit murder; that they'll just have to be consciencous enough not to, and that, if they aren't, oh well- she'll learn.  The act's done, and a woman learning from it doesn't bring back the deceased.

I can't see how this argument is any different from other types of murder.. where killing your own family members is a personal choice that, if you do, you'll probably regret, and that's good enough.  It just isn't.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 12:36:22 PM   
susie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

From what I have studied, and I claim to be no expert, nor am I judging anyone here, yes, abortion if murder.  If personality is conceived at conception, then I believe life would start at conception.
Yes, we must have the right to choose because sometimes we make wrong choises in life; however, if we educate ourselves on t his subject when we are young, we may start to realize that abortion is wrong.  You have to go back to the cause of the problem.  It is not in the water.
In my humble opinion, abortion is a personal choice.  So my choice is it is not an option for me.  I have my hystrectomy and don't have to worry.
All I am saying is be responsbile for your actions and we won't have to use it, but we cannot change the law.

It is a personal choice for the woman to make regardless if it is pro or against.


I can't possibly agree with you.. that women should have the right to commit murder; that they'll just have to be consciencous enough not to, and that, if they aren't, oh well- she'll learn.  The act's done, and a woman learning from it doesn't bring back the deceased.

I can't see how this argument is any different from other types of murder.. where killing your own family members is a personal choice that, if you do, you'll probably regret, and that's good enough.  It just isn't.


So you think that abortion should be banned totally? You think if a woman is raped she should be forced to carry that fetus to full term even though the emotional trauma may damage her?

Making abortion illegal will not stop them happening. They will be forced underground and be a danger to women as they were in the past. What needs to be done is to educate people about the options. That includes men as well as women.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 12:38:53 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
CuriousLord, you make it sound as if this were an easy decision for a woman. Oops I am pregnant, silly me I'll have an abortion. It is not an easy decision for anyone to make and those that do live with that choice for the rest of their lives. I have seen women agonise over the decision knowing that it is in their best interest to go through with an abortion but also knowing that is an almost impossible situation.


susie, wouldn't it be a hard decision for a man to kill his lover if he suspected her of cheating on him?  He'd probably regret it for the rest of his life.  Does that make it right?

It's normally a selfish decision; giving up the child's life so that it won't bother with the mother's life.  Sure, the mother might feel guilty; but isn't the idea that that guilt isn't as bad as the consquence of having to raise that child?  The woman decides she can live with the guilt more than she can with the child.  She's making it for herself- it isn't halfway noble.

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
No man will ever know what it is like for a woman being pregnant so I think for any man to pass judgement is wholly unfair. Pregnancy is not just a carry some object inside you for 9 months, it affects the woman hormonally and emotionally too.


And no woman will ever know the sex drive that I, as a 21-year old male, have.  I don't care how much women get it later in life; it just doesn't compare biologically.  You can't possibly understand the feelings I have.  So don't you dare tell me rape is wrong.  You couldn't possibly understand.

Forgive my sarcasm, but it seems to me that women often find it easy to disregard a man's opinion, just because he can't have the pregnancy himself.  That, just because we can't feel it.  We can't feel the urges, the desires, the pains.  But, honestly.. we can still tell murder's wrong.  Stomping on someone else's rights are wrong.

Perhaps, if I had gone through a morbid preganancy, then my selfish side would incline me further into indulgence.  Perhaps, if you could feel my sex drive for a moment, you'd understand rape more.  But neither's right, and we both know that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
Not one woman I have seen go through with an abortion (I worked in a hospital that speciallised in womens health) ever thought it was "the easy option".


It's the easier option, though, isn't it?  It's easier to kill the baby and live with the guilt than raise it?

Honestly, how can you see it any other way?

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

Whilst I am aware that there are many childless couples out there who would give anything to have a child, suggesting that a woman should carry the child to full term to then give it up for adoption instead of having an abortion is heartless. No man could understand what a woman goes through during a pregnancy and how it effects her.


Please, tell me, how is it heartless to want both people involved to come out alive?  Would it be nicer if I said that I felt for the woman, that I empathized?

Please, tell me, how could anything a women could ever feel justify her murdering a baby?

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 12:45:20 PM   
susie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
CuriousLord, you make it sound as if this were an easy decision for a woman. Oops I am pregnant, silly me I'll have an abortion. It is not an easy decision for anyone to make and those that do live with that choice for the rest of their lives. I have seen women agonise over the decision knowing that it is in their best interest to go through with an abortion but also knowing that is an almost impossible situation.


susie, wouldn't it be a hard decision for a man to kill his lover if he suspected her of cheating on him?  He'd probably regret it for the rest of his life.  Does that make it right?

It's normally a selfish decision; giving up the child's life so that it won't bother with the mother's life.  Sure, the mother might feel guilty; but isn't the idea that that guilt isn't as bad as the consquence of having to raise that child?  The woman decides she can live with the guilt more than she can with the child.  She's making it for herself- it isn't halfway noble.

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
No man will ever know what it is like for a woman being pregnant so I think for any man to pass judgement is wholly unfair. Pregnancy is not just a carry some object inside you for 9 months, it affects the woman hormonally and emotionally too.


And no woman will ever know the sex drive that I, as a 21-year old male, have.  I don't care how much women get it later in life; it just doesn't compare biologically.  You can't possibly understand the feelings I have.  So don't you dare tell me rape is wrong.  You couldn't possibly understand.

Forgive my sarcasm, but it seems to me that women often find it easy to disregard a man's opinion, just because he can't have the pregnancy himself.  That, just because we can't feel it.  We can't feel the urges, the desires, the pains.  But, honestly.. we can still tell murder's wrong.  Stomping on someone else's rights are wrong.

Perhaps, if I had gone through a morbid preganancy, then my selfish side would incline me further into indulgence.  Perhaps, if you could feel my sex drive for a moment, you'd understand rape more.  But neither's right, and we both know that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
Not one woman I have seen go through with an abortion (I worked in a hospital that speciallised in womens health) ever thought it was "the easy option".


It's the easier option, though, isn't it?  It's easier to kill the baby and live with the guilt than raise it?

Honestly, how can you see it any other way?

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

Whilst I am aware that there are many childless couples out there who would give anything to have a child, suggesting that a woman should carry the child to full term to then give it up for adoption instead of having an abortion is heartless. No man could understand what a woman goes through during a pregnancy and how it effects her.


Please, tell me, how is it heartless to want both people involved to come out alive?  Would it be nicer if I said that I felt for the woman, that I empathized?

Please, tell me, how could anything a women could ever feel justify her murdering a baby?


You know I have read some of your posts before and found them to come from someone I consider very immature but really that sentence that I bolded really really proves it.

You think that rape is not wrong?? You really need to grow up and live in the real world. As for the rest of the post.... a selfish decision? bother a womans life? really you have NO understanding of what pregnancy is or what abortion does to a woman. It does not equate in any way with your supposed sex drive.

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RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 12:49:56 PM   
IrishMist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

If it can be sustained on medical life support then it is a life, if it cannot then it is not. This also does not take into account any rights the Father may have. If Men are going to be held financially accountable if the child is born, then they should have some say so in whether an abortion can be done or not. Personally I am against abortion, but I believe it should be a choice within the guidelines of the first sentence.

Orion

It's very rare that I see eye to eye with anything that you say, but I will state that what you said here, I partially agree; mainly in the area in regards to the father.

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RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 12:51:08 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I can't possibly agree with you.. that women should have the right to commit murder; that they'll just have to be consciencous enough not to, and that, if they aren't, oh well- she'll learn.  The act's done, and a woman learning from it doesn't bring back the deceased.

I can't see how this argument is any different from other types of murder.. where killing your own family members is a personal choice that, if you do, you'll probably regret, and that's good enough.  It just isn't.


So you think that abortion should be banned totally?


Nope.  I'm all for abortion in cases in which it would severly risk the mother's life.  My whole pro-life stance is just that: pro-life.  The mother's life is more important than the baby's, in probably most cases (though the mother does sometimes opt in favor of the baby's).  So, if it poses a risk to the mother, then, yes, by all means- abortion works.  Not that it's a good thing to have to happen, but, sometimes, there's no good way around it.

Late-term abortions I'm strongly against.  Utterly disgusting acts of depravity, to me; outside of, again, when it would threaten the mother's life.

Cases of rape and incest.. abortion disgusts me, but I haven't considered these deeply enough to be for outlawing them.  Perhaps in a more perfect world, they might be more closely considered.

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
You think if a woman is raped she should be forced to carry that fetus to full term even though the emotional trauma may damage her?


(Answered above, but seperate to say this.)  How much is the child's life worth, I wonder?  I can't claim to know exactly.  At what point does the emotional scar reduction for her become worth more than the life it'd cost?

After all, getting the abortion won't save the woman from the emotional pain.  There's still the act, then the abortion, and knowing she killed someone.  So, point being, it doesn't take the problem away, only lessens it.  So, the question becomes, is it lessened enough to justify taking another human life?

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
Making abortion illegal will not stop them happening. They will be forced underground and be a danger to women as they were in the past.


Same thing with drugs, incest, rape, etc.  They're illegal, they still happen, and they're more dangerous to do because they're illegal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
What needs to be done is to educate people about the options. That includes men as well as women.


Education's a good thing.  I'm not sure if you were counting abortion as an "option".  It'd be akin to raping someone on the street to be an "option" for relieving horniness.  It works, it's effective, and, if it were legal, it'd probably be commonly utilized.  So, they're both options.  Just.. grouping them together with more sensible options seems to be a bit.. awkward.

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RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 1:02:43 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord's backquote that susie used (cut here to avoid a very long backquote)
And no woman will ever know the sex drive that I, as a 21-year old male, have.  I don't care how much women get it later in life; it just doesn't compare biologically.  You can't possibly understand the feelings I have.  So don't you dare tell me rape is wrong.  You couldn't possibly understand.

Note:  The bold was added by susie, and she refers to it in the next quote.
quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
You know I have read some of your posts before and found them to come from someone I consider very immature but really that sentence that I bolded really really proves it.

You think that rape is not wrong?? You really need to grow up and live in the real world.


I thought it'd be pretty obvious that that was sarcasm, especially since the very next sentence started out with, "Forgive my sarcasm".  So, no, no I don't think that rape isn't wrong.  My point was that, just because it's an easy and viable way of dealing with something that might otherwise be a problem, it's ignoring the victim, as I feel you're doing with rape.

It's sort of ironic, you know.  I used this example to point out the immaturity I'm sensing in you, but you ended up blasting it yourself.  I'm not sure if you simply missed the sarcasm or if you're upset at seeing it pointed out.  Either way, though, I'd ask you try to not get upset like this.  Once things here start upsetting you so badly, it's time to back out and leave the computer alone for a while.

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
As for the rest of the post.... a selfish decision? bother a womans life? really you have NO understanding of what pregnancy is or what abortion does to a woman.


How is the decision to kill someone else for her own emotional concerns not selfish?  Please, don't yell, just explain.

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
It does not equate in any way with your supposed sex drive


You're saying I can't understand because I'm not of the correct gender.  The closest thing I could think of at the moment that you wouldn't understand because of your gender is the male sex drive.  I doubt you'll ever understand it, just to what ends it can drive us.  But we have to deal with it, correct?

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 1:07:57 PM   
LadyLynx


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Death penalty: I am for the death penalty, because those who get it, well chances are they were full grown adults who were capable of knowing right from wrong and they still chose the wrong path.  "you make your bed, now go lie in it" Of course that statement can be applied to the subject at hand.
Rape,  CL that was a good point you made, having an Abortion doesn't remove the rape.  And I don't believe that it would absolve the woman of murder.  Ok, how about this: What if you find out that your baby had Tay-Sachs? ( or some other horrible disease.) would you be able to put yourselves, your baby thru that trauma, knowing that their lifespan was going to be extremely short and filled with gods only knows how much pain and suffering?  If there was a cure available, (a proven cure I should say.) then there would be no question.  Even if I was going to put him/her up for Adoption I would still go to any means necessary to get that cure.
CL I hope you weren't saying that you don't think rape is wrong.


Because of my financial inability to care for a child, I choose not to have sex.  I make that very loud and clear to guys that I talk to.  (part of the reason why it has been so long since I have had a boyfriend. bleh.)  I don't want to count on condoms and Birth control to do the job, as they don't protect 100%.  I also don't want to count on the father of my baby for paying for things.  (again, hearing alot of stories growing up, about idiotic parents.)  I wish it could be as simple as 'throwing a switch' actively making the decision to have a baby or not. to not have to use BC or any other aid. 

< Message edited by LadyLynx -- 10/7/2007 1:15:51 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 1:10:49 PM   
susie


Posts: 1699
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord's backquote that susie used (cut here to avoid a very long backquote)
And no woman will ever know the sex drive that I, as a 21-year old male, have.  I don't care how much women get it later in life; it just doesn't compare biologically.  You can't possibly understand the feelings I have.  So don't you dare tell me rape is wrong.  You couldn't possibly understand.

Note:  The bold was added by susie, and she refers to it in the next quote.
quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
You know I have read some of your posts before and found them to come from someone I consider very immature but really that sentence that I bolded really really proves it.

You think that rape is not wrong?? You really need to grow up and live in the real world.


I thought it'd be pretty obvious that that was sarcasm, especially since the very next sentence started out with, "Forgive my sarcasm".  So, no, no I don't think that rape isn't wrong.  My point was that, just because it's an easy and viable way of dealing with something that might otherwise be a problem, it's ignoring the victim, as I feel you're doing with rape.

It's sort of ironic, you know.  I used this example to point out the immaturity I'm sensing in you, but you ended up blasting it yourself.  I'm not sure if you simply missed the sarcasm or if you're upset at seeing it pointed out.  Either way, though, I'd ask you try to not get upset like this.  Once things here start upsetting you so badly, it's time to back out and leave the computer alone for a while.

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
As for the rest of the post.... a selfish decision? bother a womans life? really you have NO understanding of what pregnancy is or what abortion does to a woman.


How is the decision to kill someone else for her own emotional concerns not selfish?  Please, don't yell, just explain.

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie
It does not equate in any way with your supposed sex drive


You're saying I can't understand because I'm not of the correct gender.  The closest thing I could think of at the moment that you wouldn't understand because of your gender is the male sex drive.  I doubt you'll ever understand it, just to what ends it can drive us.  But we have to deal with it, correct?


How very sweet of you to point out "my immaturity". When YOU have spent time with women agonising over the decision of whether to have an abortion or not. When YOU have spent time with women after going through the procedure and seeing the emotional effect it has on them then you can come here and discuss how "selfish" that choice is.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 1:11:53 PM   
FullCircle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLynx
Death penalty: I am for the death penalty, because those who get it, well chances are they were full grown adults who were capable of knowing right from wrong and they still chose the wrong path.  "you make your bed, now go lie in it" Of course that statement can be applied to the subject at hand.


Hmmmm

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 1:17:53 PM   
blueeyespup


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Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Canada
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hmm looks like this is getting to be a pretty heated debate. understandably.

It seems that alot of you who are generally not pro choice, do feel that there are certain extreme cirumstance in which a girl/women should still be able to chose (for instance incest and/or rape).  so, if many believe that abortion should only be allowed in cases of incest or rape, then how would you go about regulating this?   you couldn't outlaw abortions all together ~ and if you allowed it only in instances of incest or rape, how could the incest/rape be proven?  especially given the short window of time allowed for an abortion.  there's not enough time to prove something like that, something where it's his word against hers. it's not realistic.

so what do you do?  i don't think there will ever be an answer that will satisfy everyone, but i will add my own personal opinion which is... if a 12 year old (or any other age for that matter) is raped and impregnanted, it is not her fault, nor is it her responsibility to follow through with a pregnancy which could endanger her safety or even take her life.  she has enough to live and deal with from the rape alone and if she has an abortion then that will be another thing she will have to live and deal with yes, but this girl should be given a choice.  on a side note, any man who would even dream of raping a child or a woman is scum.  no woman should ever be forced into a position where she needs to make this choice, because there are definitely negatives no matter which path she choses.

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 1:18:50 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
I think you are chasing your tail here....But let's assume that your stance is correct and your view is adopted as law.....I would then insist that every police department would have to do a potential murder investigation for every single miscarriage that occurs in this country....If the woman in question was ordered to bed rest but had to go to work, smoked cigs, drank alcohol, exercised, Took any type of medication that might harm the "manbryo," or indulged in any type of an activity that placed her lil' adult at risk....Then she should face charges of at least  "cell-slaughter" all the way up to potentially murder....I have to admit that the thought of millions and millions of women "lezzing" out in prison is kinda hot....But overall, Tis a ridiculous notion.


Yeah, we couldn't hope to get it enforced perfectly, and penalties would have to be rather lenient at first when such laws would come into effect.  That, plus we'd have to acknowledge that some things truly do happen by accident, and that they can't be much helped; the woman wouldn't be responsible for taking necessary risks as we're not in a position yet where we can afford to.

My friend, in a way, being pro-life goes against a lot of what I am.  Quite elitist, really.  Most people look like monkeys to me, so I often feel like they should have similar rights.  Part of me rests a bit more easily knowing that, as technology increases, a person's mind will continually be a greater factor in determining their power, which will yield a society more to my liking.

For now, though, it's just hard to see some animals killing their own offspring, following whatever strange impulses that their conscience affords indulgence to out of a lack of understanding the consquences.  And, too, I guess I have a soft spot for kids- those with so much potential in this world, not yet given into the pitfalls that we've all taken, to some degree or another, as our lives have gone on.  A clump of cells, whether it has fingers yet or not, I understand will grow them if not interefered with.  They're babies to me, not yet capable of understanding the world with the same prejustices we do, but growing all the same.  If we don't kill them, they'll probably outlive us, probably still to go on to live better lives than we did, as such is the fashion of human progress.

To me, abortion is a monsterous, inhuamne practice allowed for by bliss ignornance.  I.. can't hate the women who practice it as most of them probably don't understand just exactly how horrible what they're doing is; they, like the ones they're killing, are still innocent, even if they should now have blood on their hands.  Ultimately, they're just too inexperienced to understand the damage that they're doing; how could I hate them?  Regardless, though, the world constrains us from lofty ideals to the reality of things.  That, humans, past the age of majority, must be responsible for their own actions as there are few greater beings to see us past this.  People must be made accountable, even if they can't entirely understand the atrocities that they're commiting.  Therefore, if I come to accept the constraints of society, falling from idealism to realism, I would have to hate these women.  As I, too, must be responsible.. a purposefully transitory part of me does.



Edit:  Darn quote tag.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 10/7/2007 1:19:34 PM >

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 1:20:44 PM   
LadyLynx


Posts: 1098
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline
I do not believe that those under the age of 18 should be executed.  If someone is not concidered an adult, then I am not comfortable with them being treated as one.  Of course I don't know whether or not the states of Alabama and Texas consider 16 year olds to be adult or not.  BTW I said I supported the Death Penalty, doesn't mean that i like it.

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(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Abortion - 10/7/2007 1:22:36 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

so, if many believe that abortion should only be allowed in cases of incest or rape, then how would you go about regulating this?


To expound on this, why/how does the circumstances of conception devalue a life?  It seems odd that prolifers would take such a stand.  It also seems odd that pro-lifers sometimes support capital punishment.  None of it makes sense to me.


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(in reply to blueeyespup)
Profile   Post #: 60
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