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RE: "service" - 10/22/2007 7:59:36 PM

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Yes, sexual "service" is something that seems to be offered a lot. Because as we all know, sex, kinky or otherwise, is so difficult to find.

I see service as just that, serving me and making me and my surroundings comfortable. For some slaves, this is reward in itself. I have given a slave a caning as a reward for good service. I don't see this as a sell out or as pandering to his needs, as I only do it if and when I feel like it. By the same token, few people can honestly say that they serve, or anything else, without some kind of payoff. Depending on the relationship, "reward" may or may not include sexual contact. I reserve sexual contact for those that I have a long relationship with.

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RE: "service" - 10/22/2007 8:16:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

That's a good point. It's also worth considering that there is a cultural stereotype that "the average guy"- you know, the one who watches lots of sports with his buddies, drinks beer, enjoys fart jokes, etc.- is an inconsiderate, selfish, and/or inadequate lover, and that there are women who have sexual needs that are not being met because they're not being given enough priority in the bedroom. Now, maybe it's just on cartoons and stuff since that's all i usually watch on TV, but i swear i'm not making it up! Somebody out there is selling the idea that women are sexual creatures!

It's all the media's fault!

Whoa, we watch the same shows!

No one here is saying that women are not sexual creatures---at least I don't think they are. I vaguely remember having sex, and it was pretty good! What I object to is the idea that Mr Sub is doing ME some kind of favor by offering his rockin tongue skillz. I have FRIENDS for that kind of thing, dude! If you want to get near the goods, you have to make it worth my while. You have to make friends with me! (Homer did this with Marge a few times...)

It all goes back to lack of communication. That, and folks not hearing the parts that they don't want to hear.

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RE: "service" - 10/22/2007 8:41:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: guest44

I happen to agree with all the lovely ladies on this thread,so I wont repeat what has been said very well,except,I am so sick of receiveing emails telling me of their amazing "oral service",to the point I roll my eyes.

Hear, hear!

As I wrote something along these lines the other day to a boy who had responded to a profile I have on another site, I was thinking I should make a copy of that particular rant so that I could respond properly to the many 'offers' of oral service that I get so tired of receiving--usually in the interest of using my time wisely, I just delete them. Wouldn't it be a trip to have a well-written rant all set to paste in and send! You could answer every 'offer' in an appropriate way without any trouble at all.

Maybe we should ALL do that!! I wonder if, along about the tenth reply, some of these guys would begin to get the point.

But I must say, I know some *very* lovely service submissives here in Minneapolis who have done SO much to help me. They've helped me move, helped me clean the house when I had out-of-town company coming, helped clean the oven at my mom's house, helped my daughter with her water heater, and more.

And really, if they want to clean in heels and a corset, or if they get a charge out of taking orders, so much the better. I agree with the comment I read here earlier, saying that it should be a satisfying exchange for both parties. If I'm taking a boy somewhere to serve a Domme friend of mine, and he likes bondage, I'm happy to chain and shackle him and throw him in the back seat, blindfolded. That's half the fun.

Sunny

(in reply to guest44)

RE: "service" - 10/22/2007 8:41:44 PM

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Thanks everyone for saying what needs to be said, I'm usually just an observer but I just had to say that this is a great thread to comment on because even though I am new to this site I too have gotten alot of e-mails saying that the men want so "Serve Me" through an online or long distance relationship....when what I want is something real and tangible. Also that its important to be open minded as a sub to serving Mistress completely in ways that would please Her and the sub, It can be a mutual, pleasure for service am I not right on that ?

-missAnn

(in reply to Gwynvyd)

RE: "service" - 10/22/2007 10:46:59 PM

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Hi missAnn. Whatever tickles ya pickle really. If it's something you want, just do it!!!

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RE: "service" - 10/22/2007 10:56:49 PM

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I sometimes think bdsm is just another bad episode of Three's Company where you have "service" submissives looking for dominant women who think "service" means sexually satisfying them and where you have dominant women who think "service" submissives only want to come clean and NEVER have any actual interaction with them. The only thing missing is Mr. and Mrs. Furley who probably have the only healthy bdsm relationship on the whole show here.

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RE: "service" - 10/22/2007 11:36:48 PM

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Dear BoiJen, Ladies and Gentlemen,

Service is a very broad/general term to me. Service can be, just being near and my companion/company--to pet and enjoy just being there and all the way to full service of being the slave in charge of the house and my possessions at my pleasure and for my purposes.

It is not seen as a means to have free service and abuse the servant slave's intent--but, many other things. Things need to get done, such as chores. Once that is done, it permits more Master/Mistress-slave time. It also has to be where both the Dominant and servant feel needed, appreciated, validated and feed their core desires in which they are happy. It is not the invention of things to do--but, giving my control of my chores to a slave/servant to whom has the same perfection in areas I do. This allows me to focus on higher levels of the slave/servant's level of happiness and purpose. It is the quality of serving--not the quantity of it.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to BoiJen)

RE: "service" - 10/23/2007 10:17:27 AM

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Here is what I don't like about the term "service" :

1) It somehow incorporates normal "doing stuff for another person" into the reach of BDSM. Mowing someone's lawn, running an errand for them, cooking a meal, etc. is not BDSM.

2) This may sound like sacriledge, but why is it incumbent upon the submissive to make the DOMs life easier? How is it that the "chores" get apportioned based on one's sexual orientation? Why is this presumed as some kind of natural law of BDSM? Does BDSM naturally presuppose inequity? IMO, inequity is sexy upfront and a turn off on the back-end. (Its not good for a LTR.)

(I have mixed feelings about the BDSM inequites.)

3) I work out of the home, but I also keep house, grocery shop, cook, and manage the household finances. I don't consider any of this service at all, but abracadabra if we transform my wife into a FEMDOM --- ordinary relationship stuff is transformed into ***service.***

4) Why would anyone want to be in a LTR with another who made service a greater priority than having an exciting, rewarding personal connection?

5) "Service" to me cynically means, barter for sex or BDSM.

5a) "Service" in the Femdom universe is the precursor to leveling the "do-me" sub accusation. While the sub is accused of wanting sex first and foremost, the FEMDOM in this context seems to be indicating only a barter interest in it. The whole framework sidesteps the all-important personal connection.

-------------

On the upside, if "Service" has some sort of BDSM-relationship context: for instance: a) a sissy maid; b.) serving tea to a group of femdoms; c) the task has some kind of fetish or bondage angle ------------------- then I can see it as part of BDSM.

-------------

On balance its misguided to think subs get off on service. The single greatest ongoing FEMDOM complaint I've seen repeated over-and-over in ASK A MISTRESS is the lack of service orientation on the part of malesubs. Is the problem in the malesub or is the problem in the FEMDOM expectation of service? Or, is the problem incorporating service into BDSM?

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/23/2007 10:25:28 AM >

(in reply to BoiJen)

RE: "service" - 10/23/2007 10:33:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

This may sound like sacriledge, but why is it incumbent upon the submissive to make the DOMs life easier?

Because we say so, mainly. Check out some of the male dom profiles, many are looking for their little Donna Reed. And hey, I really don't care about the sexual orientation of my submissives.

I work out of the home, but I also keep house, grocery shop, cook, and manage the household finances. I don't consider any of this service at all, but abracadabra if we transform my wife into a FEMDOM --- ordinary relationship stuff is transformed into ***service.***

Yes, exactly! I tell that to so many men who want to get their spouses into femdom, and I ask them why they are not serving their wives? They are astounded---it's NO FUN to help the mrs if she is not appropriately attired in fetishwear, evidently.
-------------

On the upside, if "Service" has some sort of BDSM-relationship context: for instance: a) a sissy maid; b.) serving tea to a group of femdoms; c) the task has some kind of fetish or bondage angle ------------------- then I can see it as part of BDSM.

It is part of BDSM *PLAY*. I offer the notion that BDSM is more than fetish satisfaction.

-------------

On balance I think its misguided to think subs get off on service. The single greatest ongoing FEMDOM complaint I've seen repeated over-and-over in ASK A MISTRESS is the lack of service orientation on the part of malesubs. Is the problem in the malesub or is the problem in the FEMDOM expectation of service?

I'll refer you back to my post on men and women having different desires and needs. And you might want to check into those threads on the difference between bottoms and submissives, while we're at it... :)

I do not think that subs get off on service. I do think---I EXPECT---that my sub will get off on pleasing ME. Some days pleasing me means taking a beating, or having a how-many-clothespins contest with his useful bits. Other days pleasing me means coming with me to the flea markets, or going to a gallery opening. I am a kind and considerate person, and I do want the people who serve me to be happy. I wouldn't take advantage of someone usefulness without seeing that the full spectrum of BOTH our needs were being met. At the same time, I cannot and WILL not be bullied or otherwise manipulated into play "just because" my submissive was doing his or her job by making me a contented dominant. Yes, it's called power exchange---that implies that there are inequities built right in. Sometimes that bugs me. Mostly, though, I want what I want, with no apologies or explanation. This is NOT a barter system.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to cloudboy)

RE: "service" - 10/23/2007 10:45:56 AM

YesMistressIrish

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

This may sound like sacriledge, but why is it incumbent upon the submissive to make the DOMs life easier?

Because we say so, mainly. Check out some of the male dom profiles, many are looking for their little Donna Reed. And hey, I really don't care about the sexual orientation of my submissives.

I work out of the home, but I also keep house, grocery shop, cook, and manage the household finances. I don't consider any of this service at all, but abracadabra if we transform my wife into a FEMDOM --- ordinary relationship stuff is transformed into ***service.***

Yes, exactly! I tell that to so many men who want to get their spouses into femdom, and I ask them why they are not serving their wives? They are astounded---it's NO FUN to help the mrs if she is not appropriately attired in fetishwear, evidently.
-------------

On the upside, if "Service" has some sort of BDSM-relationship context: for instance: a) a sissy maid; b.) serving tea to a group of femdoms; c) the task has some kind of fetish or bondage angle ------------------- then I can see it as part of BDSM.

It is part of BDSM *PLAY*. I offer the notion that BDSM is more than fetish satisfaction.

-------------

On balance I think its misguided to think subs get off on service. The single greatest ongoing FEMDOM complaint I've seen repeated over-and-over in ASK A MISTRESS is the lack of service orientation on the part of malesubs. Is the problem in the malesub or is the problem in the FEMDOM expectation of service?

I'll refer you back to my post on men and women having different desires and needs. And you might want to check into those threads on the difference between bottoms and submissives, while we're at it... :)

I do not think that subs get off on service. I do think---I EXPECT---that my sub will get off on pleasing ME. Some days pleasing me means taking a beating, or having a how-many-clothespins contest with his useful bits. Other days pleasing me means coming with me to the flea markets, or going to a gallery opening. I am a kind and considerate person, and I do want the people who serve me to be happy. I wouldn't take advantage of someone usefulness without seeing that the full spectrum of BOTH our needs were being met. At the same time, I cannot and WILL not be bullied or otherwise manipulated into play "just because" my submissive was doing his or her job by making me a contented dominant. Yes, it's called power exchange---that implies that there are inequities built right in. Sometimes that bugs me. Mostly, though, I want what I want, with no apologies or explanation. This is NOT a barter system.

Yes!! Great answer!
My current thread on 'Bottoms' dives into this issue.
TPE means they give it up, do for us whatever that may be at the time. I like everyone happy also and not at my own expense.

Great thread........

Irish

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

RE: "service" - 10/23/2007 10:51:26 AM

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Frankly, cloudboy, I don't personally think that service is part of being a submissive but I do believe is it a strong and vital part of being someone's slave.

Of course I see the first term as time limited and activity limited while the second term is a 24/7 dynamic.

Doing something that you would normally do for someone can indeed have Ds connotations when 1) you are ordered or trained to do it, 2) there are not arguments or discussions about it allowed, and 3) you received positive and negative feedback about it in a formal process.

And the fact is that in my household at least these are not things that I would either allow my vanilla partner to do nor would he have an interest in doing them in a consistent manner. My slave has earned enough of my trust to do some of these things and he enjoys taking over some chores that I would normally do.

His doing his mundane service has no relationship to when we do SM or bondage or sex. That's my decision and I do allow myself to be manipulated or to manipulate by connecting them to mundane service.

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(in reply to cloudboy)

RE: "service" - 10/23/2007 10:55:33 AM

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I agree that "Service" needn`t mean barter, but is all part of doing what you can to make Mistress`s life easier. As i said before often being a service submissive does allow the submissive pleasure through pleasing his/her Mistress.

The problem is there isn`t a "Fits everyone" answer to any of this, although service submissives, and Mistress`s wanting such, may be more D/s inclined than BDSM inclined.

(in reply to YesMistressIrish)

RE: "service" - 10/23/2007 11:30:42 AM

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I'm not comfortable with someone saying that because I wont pick your damn weeds or pick up your dogshit i'm not a submissive.

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- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
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RE: "service" - 10/23/2007 11:43:37 AM

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I never make my boys clean my ferret poo, but of course if you love the fuzzbutts you'll help take care of them just as I do.

If I had weeds, I'd love to have my half-nekkid boys on dirty knees picking them, but that's just because it tickles me. Primarily, I enjoy gardening, so I'm not about to give away that task.

(Sorry Rumtiger, I had to reply thoughtfully to your slightly sarcastic comment.)

My consort helps me, and I help him.

My slave helps me and I take care of him. In his case (which is more relevant to this discussion) he would do anything for me if I ordered him to, but when I make it a request, he feels that he is 'offering' his service, and it makes him happy. His happily assisting me makes me happy - not just because it makes my life easier, but because his desire to do so gives me the warm fuzzies. Call me a softie, but that's me.

Just my experience.

Lady Seraphina

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(in reply to Rumtiger)

RE: "service" - 10/23/2007 11:55:38 AM

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Cloudboy and others:

You DO realize that service is something that can be negotiated, along with all the other limits? Hell, I wouldn't stay in a relationship if I was there to do EVERYTHING for a Domme. (That's also known as being a doormat.) As it is, my Domme and I negotiated what sorts of things I'm responsible for. She's the better cook, and enjoys it, so she cooks. I enjoy eating, so I do the dishes (including my dog bowls) I do the odd jobs around the house... change furnace filters, light bulbs, clean up the candle wax, plumbing, minor electrical, taking the trash out, and laundry half the time. If needed, I'll sweep and pick up the house. At times, I act as her personal assistant, reminding her of appointments, making phone calls, etc. (And yes, I'll handle the cat litter...) In return, she's the one calling the shots regaurding our play. She knows what I like, I know what she likes. I just soak it up and call myself happy. This is the first time I've entered a poly household, so I imagine the negotiations will become somewhat more complex as the "family" grows... but the system does seem to work.

Again, the answer is: communicate, communicate, communicate!

(in reply to Rumtiger)

RE: "service" - 10/23/2007 2:08:08 PM

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My problems with "service" are issue based.

When partners take "supposed to's" or "ought to's" from the BDSM cabinet --- and then experience frustration ---- I think you question the premise of the operation in play. (This often seems the case in service situtations.)

Tammyjo's response that fomality, structure, and power exchange turn chores and bores into service makes a certain amount of sense to me. In my marriage, my responsibities all get done informally. There's no real fanfare or excitement about it.

But, it does crack me up to read or see the FEMDOM attitude of what a privilege it would be for me to take her trash cans to the curb. This is only exciting for a malesub b/c of the possibility of where it will lead (BDSM experiences.) Once into the relationship, its just putting out the trash. (Love, caring, or straight sense of duty and obligation.)

Part of my inherent problem with "Service" is I just can't effectively turn it around. I would not take very much pleasure in ordering a woman around to do the menial jobs attendant to my life. I also cannot see judging a woman for how she'd perform these tasks. I can, however, see the advantages and excitement in tying her up or making her endure a beating.

My orientation probably comes from a spot of intellectual idealism. I want my partner operating on a higher plane --- the social-intellectual-soulful one. I'd rather have compatibility and excitement there while putting my own trash cans out. Also, I would not want my partner too revolving around me, instead I'd prefer she have her own rich life and interests separate and apart from mine. Hence, you see why for me equality is important --- because only in a setting of equality do you get a ripe, strong, connection to another individual. I readily admit that this idealism for equality is in tension with BDSM.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/23/2007 2:11:03 PM >

(in reply to bipolarber)

RE: "service" - 10/23/2007 2:48:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
What is "service"?

I started replying to this and then realized I'm in the Ask a Mistress forum, but I would like to share my 2 cents anyway, even though I am a slave owned by a Master. But whichever gender I may have ended up belonging to, my definition of serving would likely remain unchanged.

Serving my Master means catering to him, in any way he desires. It may be sexually, it may be in running errands, or doing research, or taking care of any thing from shining his shoes to grooming him, to splaying myself open for the physical taking.

I serve him me. And "me" means a driving inner need to do whatever will please him. My slavery is not a sexual orientation; it is me, in my entirety, and my need to give all. This is how he and I see my service to him. I serve him whatever he wishes - sex, chores, conversation - whatever.

(in reply to BoiJen)

RE: "service" - 10/23/2007 3:28:53 PM

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cloudboy wrote:
My orientation probably comes from a spot of intellectual idealism. I want my partner operating on a higher plane --- the social-intellectual-soulful one.

Cloudboy,

Well, that's great, but you know, even Bhudda and Jesus Christ had to take a crap behind the rocks once in a while.
I think it's great they you solve your household "chores" informally. But I really wish you wouldn't mock the fact that some people DO consider it a privlidge to take their Domme's trashcans to the curb. I don't live with my Domme 24/7, but I'm happy to be a part of her life. And if being in her life means doing the occasional sink full of dishes, or changing the cat box, so be it. Such is the price of fealty to another. The fact that, helping her get her household in shape, makes it easier for her to free up playtime, or lesiure time, without suffering worry or guilt about it, then I've made the whole experience of being with her that much better.

I dunno... maybe it's because I was brought up as a farm kid, in a large family, and we were all brought up to do our fair share.... maybe you were brought up differently?

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

RE: "service" - 10/23/2007 3:35:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySeraphina

If I had weeds, I'd love to have my half-nekkid boys on dirty knees picking them, but that's just because it tickles me. Primarily, I enjoy gardening, so I'm not about to give away that task.

(Sorry Rumtiger, I had to reply thoughtfully to your slightly sarcastic comment.)

Appreciate the thoughtful reply, youd be suprised how often thats all one needs.

still...yardwork = hell.

I'm not saying I wouldent help my domme in something if she asked me I would have, and have even done certian things like put on dinner and a movie although I wound up cooking family portions and whatnot. (she never saw the Godfather...you fuckin believe that?), so I wound up eating ravioli and fettuchine alfredo with broccoli for about a week.

I was just a bit put off by anyone saying that because maybe one wants play or whatever else without anything that falls into the service category, that it means said person is not a sub. It isent a matter of not knowing better that I dont have to do it, its just the perceptions of some people is all.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to LadySeraphina)

RE: "service" - 10/23/2007 3:40:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

My 2 boys served me, and learned from me for 3-4 years each before they ever had sexual contact. Most I never do have sexual contact with.. I am very picky on that.

I had a Master like this one time, kept sexual contact to n-i-l, saying it would only confuse the issue of my slavery with that of simple lust. It worked very well for me, this kind of training, although ... chuckle ... we did have to come to the conclusion that even though I wanted to be and even though I tried, I was not a slave. Argh. (Not because of the sex.)

(in reply to Gwynvyd)

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