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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/12/2007 6:56:47 AM

diaperedbaby

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I do get the impression that this gets really over analyzed. I just simply look at it like a kink or fetish that isn't any different than another.

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/12/2007 11:29:17 AM

LotusSong

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quote:

ORIGINAL: diaperedbaby

I do get the impression that this gets really over analyzed. I just simply look at it like a kink or fetish that isn't any different than another.

Know why I bring up topics and and the why of it? Because those in wiitwd want it accepted in general society. That being the premise.. you had better know yourself and why you do what you do. Saying.. "it's just me.. its a kink" is far less effective than being able to explain oneself. You may even find out you are far more interesting than you thought :)

The more defensive one is, the more suspect they are.

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/12/2007 1:02:04 PM

diaperedbaby

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Good point. I don't mind explaining, but don't feel a need to defend.

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/12/2007 3:27:41 PM

LadyHugs

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Dear diaperedbaby, Ladies and Gentlemen;

Speaking for myself only -- I really appreciate whatever explainations I can get, as to get to the meat per se of the male perspectives.

In seeing this thread struggle and lot of frustration -- I admit I took a strong grasp and ask questions that--perhaps others may be afraid to ask.

Unfortunately, there will be 'bashing' no matter where one goes. This is not my intention and I rather give clear questions as to understand where sissy and or men who are going fem--submit from--the dark caves per se.

Hopefully, when people read this thread --no matter if one agrees or disagrees; opening up the questions and getting answers from the 'horse's mouth' per se; rather than having tart responses which doesn't help anybody (IMHO).

Frankly, I have been enlightened -- pleasantly so. I owe it to those who positively responded from the questions posed as to open the dialog and knowledge dialog.

What I am taking away from this thread personally; wouldn't have occurred if the thread died and I didn't ask questions that have been asked around my personal circles and some are afraid to ask men who dress for fear of getting their britches burned with allegations of sissy bashing, etc., so on. But, back to what I am taking away from this thread is this: 1.) Most lads who dress femme aren't going to use dressing as to have kinky sex and then go back into a Dominant role in this sort of relationship. 2.) That the Female Dominant is not seen as a temporary influence, such as being dressed in female Dominatrix uniform and once this is shed--she still is the Dominant influence in the relationship. 3.) For some, who are not in gender reassignment quests--they are content to be masculine in public with their Dominant lady partner and on occassions that permit--dress and in such a manner as to be within harmony with their partner.
4.) Men who dress femme are not necessarily hiding Bi-sexuality and or homosexuality tendencies and or 'in the closet Gay' and not a 'phase' in between such sexual explorations.
5.) Asking questions is how the gentlemen see it --is more important to explore beyond superficial answers and get answers on how men 'tick' per se; there are areas which are surprises and pleasant disclosures. 6.) These questions and responses will help start a discussion and perhaps give more consideration for workshops at BDSM conventions--as this is over looked.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/12/2007 3:43:38 PM

LadyHugs

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Dear diaperedbaby,

Perhaps this thread has been 'analyzed' a lot -- however, for me--everybody is beyond a kink and or fetish.

I rather ask and learn then use my assumptions.

As it has been mentioned before, there are those who 'dress' as to be self absorbed and they are into fetish and little to nothing about 'service.' To find out where to measure who is submitting all the way around -- not just when in a female frock and just wear female clothes for their pleasure and dabble at submission as to wear their clothes in female company. I feel that when anybody is under an umbrella -- to set themselves apart is even more important--to distance themselves from just the fetish and see you (in a general sense) that submission is not just the fetish clothing. Sure, it helps to dress in femme garb and the like--and this really needs to be a more pronounced projection on those gentlemen who want to find someone for a long term life.

That said, Female Dominants are often judged on their 'dominatrix uniform' rather than the overall skills. This is what is common for everybody and it is time to peel back the pages and learn and understand from those who live this style of lifestyle--in this case; finding why there is an acceptance problem--which is a perception problem; based on the latest on this thread.
Hopefully, the perception has changed through questions asked and answers given.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/13/2007 3:17:33 AM

iwearpanties

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hello all sorry been kinda busy here with hoildays .. but i agreee with many points said here form both side Domme and sub panty bois and those who either like us ordislike this type of play .when i saw the posting about public display humiliations im sure each and every one has a some form of it deep in side them it may not ever surface or you might be scare too have it surface ? but for the male sub i can see why they say no but then want too fele it one the excitement , the thirll , the humiliation of knowing others see it the or there experssion of other faces even if it at a play party .
best example might be a bra being see thur a shrit a panty top or waste band poping up over the waste of pants or jeans lite blush or eye shadow and a many number of thigns female shrit / blouse or jeans haveing a nylon / hose showing by your shoes just a few thigns but honstly thing about .Were here talking about is have you ever wondered some that dont ever come on here weather there married couples or just girlfreidns and boys playing think about when you see other are theya d/s couple his her wearing hers or she is ect in public isnt all about enjoying fun and lifes too short not too . sorry if i got long winded on just this one thing .. Ms Lady hugs i love all the questions you ask and all others who ask and repsond as well lets just keep going see how this may go

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/13/2007 4:09:47 AM

LadyEllen

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I have some questions too!

1) Is there any element in crossdressing which could be explained by reference to the two laws of magic? (not magic in the stage sense, not magic in the new age sense - but magic in the sense of an element of human psychology). These two laws, as explained in The Golden Bough (a classic book of anthropology) are
a) the law of contagion, and
b) the law of sympathy

Contagion basically holds that any two things which have once been joined, will always retain a magical link. This is why for instance, one uses a lock of hair (for example) from the object of a spell, to produce effects on that person. I was wondering whether wearing a lady's clothes (which belong to a lady), somehow connects the wearer to that lady and
a) puts the wearer psychologically under her influence in some way
b) acts as some sort of evidence of belonging
c) provides a link to the lady in a psychological or sexual way

Sympathy holds that if one replicates circumstances, then one can produce desired effects. A rain stick works on this principle, creating the sound of falling rain which then supposedly will cause rain to fall. I was wondering whether wearing ladies' clothes (not belonging to a lady), somehow invites a lady into the life of a wearer by way of sympathy, in that the wearer is magically already joined with aspects of a lady by way of clothing, in the same intimate way he might desire to be sexually joined with a lady?

E

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/13/2007 7:20:19 AM

diaperedbaby

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One thing for sure, it is great that a lot of questions get asked and answered so there is a better understanding of where we are coming from.
There are many dynamics to this lifestyle and the more folks know, the more informed their decisions or thoughts are.
Thanks for asking some great questions.

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/13/2007 8:01:34 AM

LotusSong

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Sympathy holds that if one replicates circumstances, then one can produce desired effects. A rain stick works on this principle, creating the sound of falling rain which then supposedly will cause rain to fall. I was wondering whether wearing ladies' clothes (not belonging to a lady), somehow invites a lady into the life of a wearer by way of sympathy, in that the wearer is magically already joined with aspects of a lady by way of clothing, in the same intimate way he might desire to be sexually joined with a lady?

E

Thanks for joining this discussion Ellen :) I've always loved your contributions.

Being that most Cross Dressers (I'm not talking drag queens, or transgender here) state they are heterosexual, which means they are seeking a heterosexual situation, trying to attract a woman by dressing as a woman makes it rather difficult. But worse, is to attract a woman as a male and then spring this desire of cding on her after the fact. It may fly.. it may not. Just a difficult situation.

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/13/2007 8:02:30 PM

iwearpanties

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ok hang on there if you date and live with and some day marry your sweat heart and youve not told her long before all this that you wear and wore and like and enjoy the pantys, cding , d/s then you are a bad eggg you should be up front frist and for most not saying the frist date but as time gose on not after the knotts are tired and you now live as a couple not too very kool

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/14/2007 5:45:05 PM

Reigna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

<snip LadyEllen's summary of the laws of sympathy and contagion>

That's a good way to put it, LadyEllen, and I suspect you're correct to a large degree. I wonder, though, if you mean to say that a crossdresser adopts this strategy in a conscious fashion. If so, it's a strategy that others who wish to attract women--non-CD'ing men and lesbians, for example--haven't adopted. Moreover, it would seem to be a counter-productive strategy. CD'ing is a serious turnoff for many women, as LotusSong points out.

As I said, though, I think that you are largely correct. But I think what you describe happens at a deeply unconscious level, far beyond the reach of reason and beyond all but the dimmest awareness. Further, I don't think you'll ever find a CD'er who pursues this strategy by choice. It's a compulsion, and a remarkably strong one. Think of it--some alcoholics can dry out and never take another drink; but I doubt you'll ever find a CD'er who's been able to quit CD'ing long term, although many of them wish desperately to do so.

Well--unless they've been through a program like the one the American evangelical preacher Ted Haggard went through some months ago, to be cured of his homosexuality. But that's another thread.

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/14/2007 6:53:06 PM

Cissykay1999

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This is a subject that will be discussed as long as collarme exists. There are so many reasons why a man wants to be feminized to some extent, and why some dommes like to feminize a man, that the thread could go on forever. I have only had very limited experience with feminization, but I will pass along what happened to me in hopes it will be understood. I met a domme at a fetish club in 2000. It was a weekly get together. We talked about feminization at the time. I had never dressed. She had me wear panties and hose under my male clothing to the club. She knew I was into bondage, so she played that night. After a couple of months, she had a home party, and asked me to act as a maid. I agreed, because I didn't want to hurt her feelings. She dressed me to the doors, and I had the time of my life that night until the party was winding down. Several subs were in and out of bondage and I was rewarded by having her put me in an armbinder. She gagged me with a double penis gag and announced that I was much less like a man when dressed, so she was going to keep me dressed until the next fetish night, three days later. My fun was being dressed and made up, and her fun was not letting me undress until she was ready. Actually, she did undress me the next morning, but not before I promised to get dressed again for the fetish night. This was seven years ago, and I haven't dressed since. I did learn that while dressed, I will be more attentive to my domme's needs than when I'm not. She gave me the name Cissykay.

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/14/2007 7:03:31 PM

LotusSong

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quote:

I will be more attentive to my domme's needs than when I'm not

Now why do you think that is? Is it more difficult to be more attentive to a woman's needs as a male? And if so.Why?

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/15/2007 4:16:06 AM

iwearpanties

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mmmm were to start after reading Cissykays posting i find and have seen and been thur simular sessions / play times . the things she posted and whent thur are what i have been thur as well and i coud go as far as to say this is what mnay panty boi / cdsing have impressions of when submitting too a Mistress / Domme . Kinda of a tameing of the Male Macho ego wouldnt you say .i also understand and know that a female / Mistress dosent seek a male or man in girly things and we know and realize you all want a Man but males are have likes and fetishes so as long as there are fetsiehs talek and questions like thes are and will be there but the best part is learning and meeting and chatting here with you all on the subjects this way we all learn more about likes dislikes and this i feel helps keeps thigns fresh and going.. going back too cissykays posting when dressed she / he saw a diffrent side to her self and im sure thoguth ran thur her mind of what other are thinking of as the see her working or being shown off as a submisve and showing her skills as maid / servant was she or is she trained well in the eyes of others just fun and games if you take in to seriuos then the funn and excitement is it lost or gained ?????? but my useless thuoghts or are my panties too tight lol

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/15/2007 6:38:04 AM

Cissykay1999

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

I will be more attentive to my domme's needs than when I'm not

Now why do you think that is? Is it more difficult to be more attentive to a woman's needs as a male? And if so.Why?

Lotus,
That is a very good question. I really don't know why. Maybe it's because when I worked, I always had several people working for me. These were almost exclusively women. When I was dressed, I saw myself in a sort of role reversal. The woman was in charge, and it was my job to please her. In public, I am still a gentleman, and a bit old school. I'm there to protect the lady if needed, and to be the one that pays for the activities.
Although wearing panties, stockings and a garter belt, and even a bra under my male clothing probably won't be noticed by anyone, it still is a bit humiliating to be put in that position. This particular domme had fun with it. Like making me go to the men's room at dinner, and changing from black underwear to red.
I guess the best answer I can give is that I want to make a domme happy, and this is the excuse I need to motivate me. I really don't know.

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RE: But why submissive? - 12/15/2007 6:53:18 AM

Reigna

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I've observed another reason why dressing en femme makes a man more attentive to the domme. Even if a guy loves dressing en femme, it is at the same time deeply humiliating to him. ("I love it but I hate it." Sound familiar?) I mean, he's a man, he's not supposed to do--god forbid enjoy!--femmy things. The humiliation of being crossdressed puts him right smack into submissive head space.

Generally speaking, I've found that CDs are very responsive to, and in fact need, quite a bit of humiliation. Also generally speaking, the penchant for humiliation is so common and so strong among crossdressers, that the vast majority of them either realize they're sub or respond beautifully when introduced to submission. (Their strong submissive tendencies, by the way, can drive their non-dominant partners to despair. Among the long-term partners of crossdressers, there's always a lot of discussion around the question, "Why won't he jump my bones and give me a good pounding?" He can't--he's not wired that way. You gotta jump HIS bones.)

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/15/2007 10:13:02 AM

LotusSong

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Thank your input iwearpanties and Cissykay.

Humiliation is another thing have difficulty understanding. I can understand embarrassing.. or maybe shame..but humiliation makes me worry about the mental state of those that need to receive it AND those that need to GIVE it. Many things are skewed in terms. So what does humiliation actually mean to those that "enjoy" it?

Does the dominant actually feel powerful when humiliating another? I guess I see it more as bullying than humiliation when power is the motivator. But that's just me. I've done it and felt sad for the submissive afterward but then I did if FOR the submissive instead of something I wanted to do.

(Reigna.. please do not change to title of the thread as it causes confusion to those that might want to look it up at a later date. If you have a tangent you wish to address, it is proper to start a new thread)

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/15/2007 12:16:59 PM

iwearpanties

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Ms LotuSong : Your rite on the money ! you felt bad but you did for the submissive The ubmissive needs yu to do to him/her because they wanted it and i feel craved it its somethign they cant get daily or on a regular basis how you gave them the chance too ive out the wants and dreams or fantasy and i feel this is what moscders / panty bois .as for being manly with women i am that my self i ma have on a pant or bra or both but i will and due like very neice regular sex good old fashoined bed play time too LOL cant belive i said it that way as for seeking the humioiation we who are in charge almost daily or in most ways of life we alsoseeka relaes for the norm or daily grind and not mnay could or would see a Powerful person as a submissive this could be y you may have trouble doing it watching or being some part of it im dont know but funny just hit when the presidetn speaks next time use your xray visons and try too visualize hes wearing laura granny panties or her garter belt or her thonng

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/15/2007 12:34:26 PM

Boondoggle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Humiliation is another thing have difficulty understanding. I can understand embarrassing.. or maybe shame..but humiliation makes me worry about the mental state of those that need to receive it AND those that need to GIVE it. Many things are skewed in terms. So what does humiliation actually mean to those that "enjoy" it?

Does the dominant actually feel powerful when humiliating another? I guess I see it more as bullying than humiliation when power is the motivator. But that's just me. I've done it and felt sad for the submissive afterward but then I did if FOR the submissive instead of something I wanted to do.

This is part of something I wrote in another thread about humiliation:

quote:

Humiliation and I have an unusual relationship (unusual for me, that is). It's good, but kinda weird. I'm another one of those humiliation puppies. However, that is difficult, and humiliating, to admit. It's not difficult in the psychological way, but more in that I'm an introvert (INFP on every test I take) and tend to be shy about just how much I do enjoy humiliation. This post, for example, is taking me quite a while to write, which has nothing to do with my typing skills (and is only slightly influenced by my ADD). Actually performing a humiliating task is something I almost always find rather difficult and stressful, but a very different kind of stress than that caused by things like my upcoming finals. In fact, it's a very sexual stress, sort of like a different variety of sexual tension, and not a bad feeling at all. And yet, I still feel shy and reluctant with regard to humiliation. It's like I'm having some sort of inner struggle between my ego and my sex drive. I view it as sort of a 'slut/hate' relationship Needless to say, my slutty side wins in these situations. While I do tend to be reluctant, I still follow through, though I may either need time to build up the courage to go through with whatever the plan is, or possibly some stronger encouragement.

I enjoy humiliation a lot. It's a major part of my sexuality. When I have used humiliation as a dominant partner in a relationship, what I have enjoyed about it is the control of pushing a subbie out of her comfort zone and into a humiliating circumstance, knowing that she is also getting off on the humiliation on some level, even if she feels very uncomfortable on the surface.

As for what causes one to enjoy humiliation, I'm guessing that there are psychologists all over the world who would like to know that answer.

Ben

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RE: Sissies' Acceptance Problem - 12/15/2007 12:47:20 PM

LadyHugs

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Dear LotusSong, Ladies and Gentlemen;

I have to agree with how you feel about 'humiliation.' I've only experienced humiliation as a negative bully practice as to control someone. In my eyes, control is way different than Domination as far as BDSM goes.

I also agree that when I 'caved' for the wants/needs of an individual who wanted to be humiliated-- I think I broke my own rule as to never harm another--I did it out of pity, which is a manipulation from the bottom as to give into a 'do me' situation--and although they had a blast and best scene they ever had --I didn't leave with anything but sadness and full awareness this was a 'do him' scene and I didn't get anything out of it at all.

In most cases -- I don't think a Female Dominant with any compassionate bone to them could put themselves into a position to humiliate another soul. Some embarrassment is one thing but, it is not such a 'low blow,' as humiliation.

Dominance to me, is to not force obedience, trust, service, submission and the like. It is more of a gentle request rather than clubbing over the head using 'force' and or 'humiliation' as a tool. If I need to 'force' someone to submit to me--that is the time I hang up my whips.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

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