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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 8:45:02 AM

breatheasone

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

~fr~
Please don't say you are "Old Guard" if you aren't. Or if you don't know what "Old Guard" actually means. To do so makes you look silly. And we will follow the strict protocol of laughing (at you).

LMAO.....I was partaking of my "happy puffs" read this and about choked to death....TOO funny!

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 8:54:45 AM

Viridana

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Reply to the OP

A good advise is a good advise regardless of gender or orientation. If it makes people feel better taking an advise or read an opinion just because of gender and orientation of the poster, then so be it. But let's just bear in mind that all I (or anyone else) have to do (this is the intah-net yanno) is to create a new profile, mark the "male" and "dom" box and all of a sudden my advise is somehow more valuable. Sounds a bit silly to me.

Many of the ladies here on collarme, both dominant and submissive alike, have great insights, experiences and contribute invaluable posts on this forum. It is of course your prerogative to skip those readings. But they put it there anyways not only for you, but for the other readers who are reading the thread.

You are a quite interesting pen and a good one. Looking forward to reading more from you

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 9:46:51 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

...I am authorized to provide his opinion and insights. By ignoring my post and my comment that no, Valyraen does not care about where submissives and slaves post you ignored the opinion on an owner.

Hi Aquatic,

This was pretty much my point in my post on Page One. But she has chosen to ignore the posts of women, slaves and submissves here, while claiming we have a "complete disregard" for these forums and, rather ironically, claiming she means no disrespect.

In my opinion, tossing a criticism at a group of folks and then ignoring them is more disrespectful than posting where one "shouldn't". Hence my perceived irony.

What she may also not realize is when we post our Dominants' perspective, it is not only for the OP but for any other interested reader, whether they post or not. While I respect her choice to ignore the replies she wishes, I still tend to form my own opinion of one who displays behavior toward me which lacks any hint or even attempt of basic etiquette.

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 11/13/2007 9:47:12 AM >

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 11:16:45 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

...I am authorized to provide his opinion and insights. By ignoring my post and my comment that no, Valyraen does not care about where submissives and slaves post you ignored the opinion on an owner.

Hi Aquatic,

This was pretty much my point in my post on Page One. But she has chosen to ignore the posts of women, slaves and submissves here, while claiming we have a "complete disregard" for these forums and, rather ironically, claiming she means no disrespect.

In my opinion, tossing a criticism at a group of folks and then ignoring them is more disrespectful than posting where one "shouldn't". Hence my perceived irony.

What she may also not realize is when we post our Dominants' perspective, it is not only for the OP but for any other interested reader, whether they post or not. While I respect her choice to ignore the replies she wishes, I still tend to form my own opinion of one who displays behavior toward me which lacks any hint or even attempt of basic etiquette.

I would not judge her too harshly, she is only being obedient to her master, and I would be so too if I was ordered not to respond to certain people. Her honor and respect should be paid to him first after all....

But as LA pointed out, we choose whom to serve, and we choose whom to honor.

She seems rather sweet from the emails she has sent me on the other side, I truly do not believe she means to disrepect any of us.. how unfortunate this all has been

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 11:59:58 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

She seems rather sweet from the emails she has sent me on the other side, I truly do not believe she means to disrepect any of us.. how unfortunate this all has been

While I don't believe she is trying to be disrespectful, I can not help but be amused by the fact that she ignored an answer to her question from the desired audience simply because I stated it for him with his permission and approval.

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 12:28:36 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

She seems rather sweet from the emails she has sent me on the other side, I truly do not believe she means to disrepect any of us.. how unfortunate this all has been

While I don't believe she is trying to be disrespectful, I can not help but be amused by the fact that she ignored an answer to her question from the desired audience simply because I stated it for him with his permission and approval.

You are attributing free agency to reply to anyone that she likes on this thread, her dominant made it pretty clear whom she should not address from what I read.... You posted with permission and approval, what I am saying is she did not have the same latitude as you... she had no permission and no approval to address you even though you were posting for your Dom... The disrespect is not hers, it is the one that controls her postings

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 12:44:08 PM

juliaoceania

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It is too late to edit my above response, but I wanted to add...

Most of us have rules for behavior that we must abide by if we are in the control or power of a Daddy, Sir, Dom, Master <insert title here>. We have our own etiquette and protocol that we must adhere to. When I am following what my Daddy has told me to do or not to do, and another lifestyle person has a problem with that, they can take it up with my Daddy. He is the one that can change the behavior that they find rude.

This morning I got an email from a dom that told me I was "rude" for asking him to email my Daddy the questions he had for me, I returned an email that told him that if he found my email rude that I welcomed him to send a copy to my Daddy so that my behavior would be changed if it was found not to honor my Dom. I meant that. I want my behavior to be such that it pleases my Daddy... I can't please everyone, but I can certainly endeavor to please him.

So when I read from a submissive that they are acting on the orders of their dominant, it does mitigate whether or not I find them rude... but that is just my opinion

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 1:02:56 PM

Rover

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saki, I'd like to make the following observations:

1. I do not blame you at all for demonstrating admirable devotion to your Master, and for believing what he has told you to be true. You can do nothing less, and remain his slave.

2. While I do not blame you, I can (and do) blame your Master for (thus far) hiding behind your skirt. He has made several posts, none of which address the pertinent issues raised in this thread, and left you alone to respond to a growing inquiry regarding what he has proffered to you as truthful. I draw conclusions about that sort of behavior, and it is not consistent with platitudes about honor, respect and the like.

3. Reading about "those circles" is not the same as being there yourself. Just as books and the internet are insufficient to know real time BDSM. Drawing conclusions from second or third hand information, or information of dubious credibility, is bound to result in some inaccurate conclusions. I suggest that may be the case here.

4. Maybe you did ask those questions in order to get an opposing point of view, but that's not my perception (as I have said, I perceive them to be thinly veiled lectures). Nor is it consistent with your disinterest in documented factual history regarding "Old Guard" that may conflict with what you have been taught, or with your reaction to the responses you've received.

5. The historians/authors you were provided are recognized internationally for the validity of their first hand experience, the quality of their research, and the value of their work. No one can be *the* last word on any subject, but they are, collectively, in the last sentence.

6. Please do not misinterpret the fact that I find plenty of information to lack credibility, with any inference that you lack credibility. As I read it, and you have explained it, you are simply repeating what you have been told to be true by someone you trust and respect... your Master. You would have no reason to believe that it is not true. But someone with his professed experience does know that it's untrue. It's his credibility that I question.

John

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 2:01:29 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I would not judge her too harshly, she is only being obedient to her master, and I would be so too if I was ordered not to respond to certain people. Her honor and respect should be paid to him first after all....

She said nothing she has said here is at the directive of her Master. That it was her choice to not respond to the women because they were not who she asked the question to. If she were ordered by her Master not to respond, I would have understood and said nothing more about it.

From her post #68:
~sighs~ i had not planned to respond to the Ladies on this thread because i had deliberately asked my questions of the Masters. i asked them because i DO believe that in large part society has largely emasculated men ...

and

i simply wanted to know how the Masters felt about it ... or if they had no feelings at all. i don't go to the orthodontist and ask Him about what a gynocologist thinks ... they are both doctors yes ... but they view things differently. You know?

and

... the questions were ENTIRELY mine. If you read my journal in my profile you'll see this has been sort of a common theme for me in my thinking lately and while i did paraphrase something that He said to me ... He in no way put me up to posting this.

and

My questions were clear ... my target audience was clear ... i took and take full responsibility for my post from it's inception to it's conclusion. i was not directed to post nor was i coached in what to do.

and finally:

i don't understand why it just simply wasn't clear that i was asking of a particular group and that i was politely not replying to others because i wasn't asking them.

Edited to say I was not intentionally being hard on her. I was pointing out my opinion that ignoring a group of people who are trying to provide insight to your question is lacking basic etiquette.

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 11/13/2007 2:04:14 PM >

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 2:19:48 PM

juliaoceania

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He knew about her post... he has been following this thread.

Here is where I get my idea that he is indeed telling her whom she can respond to despite her assertions you mentioned

quote:

quote: daeldus

For you simply asking the question ... look at your responses ... herein lies your answers. Take down their names and press on with life ... they will continue to lose.

Master D.

It seemed to be a way of directing whom she should converse with, and if my Daddy even hinted that I should not respond to certain people I wouldn't do so... although I maybe mistaken about her motivation in not answering us, it seemed very related to the protocol her master believes this board should adhere to...but like I said, I could be very mistaken

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 2:34:32 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

She seems rather sweet from the emails she has sent me on the other side, I truly do not believe she means to disrepect any of us.. how unfortunate this all has been

While I don't believe she is trying to be disrespectful, I can not help but be amused by the fact that she ignored an answer to her question from the desired audience simply because I stated it for him with his permission and approval.

You are attributing free agency to reply to anyone that she likes on this thread, her dominant made it pretty clear whom she should not address from what I read.... You posted with permission and approval, what I am saying is she did not have the same latitude as you... she had no permission and no approval to address you even though you were posting for your Dom... The disrespect is not hers, it is the one that controls her postings

And you are reading too far into mine. I said I don't believe that she is trying to be disrespectful, I don't believe I ever said that I regarded her behavior as disrespectful.

If she can't address me (and I am with ownedgirlie that she made the choice, not because she was ordered) but she could address my dominant through me or at least acknowledge that Valyraen's viewpoint had been stated. If she doesn't want/is not allowed to, that is fine. However, I still find the situation quite amusing that she and her owner choose to disregard and ignore the position of someone whose answer they were seeking simply because it was posted by a submission under her owner's authority.

While I certainly wouldn't fault her for obeying, if that was her order, I still find the behavior of her and her owner amusing in this circumstance. I'm sure others are amused that Valyraen allows me to speak for him here when I know his mind.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 11/13/2007 2:38:24 PM >

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 2:41:43 PM

Lumus

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Haven't posted in a while - been caught up in that whole "life" thing - and this seems as good a place to jump back in as any.

While I have admittedly glossed over the varied posts of the OP throughout this thread, there are a few things I'd add as food for thought:

I have yet to see a law set in stone that is immutable or closed to redefinition, and I would liken protocol to an internal form of law dictated by personal mores [ie reflective of one's own logic and, yes, moral outlook...morals in general tend to dilute the absolute power of any rule, as they are inherently biased and emotionally based; yet I would rather see their influence in law, than not]. That established, one really ought to take any law, rule, or form of protocol with a grain of salt. Based on the current handling of the protocols for posting here, I would say that there is a lax attitude, and that it is intentional, for the sake of encouraging the very discussions these boards were meant to host.

If a person 'asks a Master' about playing with electricity, and the protocol of 'only Masters posting' is read literally, why, then, one must expect to only see a fraction of the sum knowledge available here, for not every Master knows how to play safely with electricity - I certainly don't. I don't think you would appreciate my advice on the topic, either, simply because I'm a Master; that could be considered foolish to downright dangerous. Take the same topic and open the gates to those who bear labels other than 'Master' - 'Mistress', 'submissive', 'slave', and you may garner safer, more educated responses.

To briefly touch on emasculation: you'll be glad [or perhaps horrified, and tempted to yell, "TMI!"] to know that my boys have never been snipped, cut off or otherwise removed. I live in an environment that strongly supports women's rights, but I'm hardly bereft of power. What I perhaps lack in muscle, I will gladly assure you is made up for in intellect. That does change the context of the question as well, does it not: for power isn't just barking orders or being physically strong. Should men rule the world? Well, now, ask the world, not a handful of individuals, or you'll get a million varied answers. I'll reserve my personal viewpoint, but mail me on the other side if you wish to know - that's an open invitation, I'm quite content to solicit and encourage communication on personal as well as public levels.

In the end I've no doubt you have your views, culled from the knowledge you have been imparted, discovered, or concluded for yourself. That's as it should be, and by all means, inquire, disseminate, dissect, analyze, argue, doubt, and wonder. We all learn that way. Tread lightly when trying to impose your final conclusions, however; know their basis, be prepared to expound and define, and don't expect acceptance. Counteranalysis, as you've seen, is more likely, for it's not a winning situation; the best that may be achieved is a broader understanding.

I'll take knowledge over winning any day. When I stop learning, I'll stop thinking, and that is true atrophy...

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 2:48:23 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

He knew about her post... he has been following this thread.

Here is where I get my idea that he is indeed telling her whom she can respond to despite her assertions you mentioned

quote:

quote: daeldus

For you simply asking the question ... look at your responses ... herein lies your answers. Take down their names and press on with life ... they will continue to lose.

Master D.

It seemed to be a way of directing whom she should converse with, and if my Daddy even hinted that I should not respond to certain people I wouldn't do so... although I maybe mistaken about her motivation in not answering us, it seemed very related to the protocol her master believes this board should adhere to...but like I said, I could be very mistaken

No problem, I read it very differently. But no biggy, if her Master believes that a slave expressing her own Master's viewpoint (as his slave expressed his earlier) is not worthy of notice, then that is his perogative, albeit a little hypocritical and confusing, but his perogative none-the-less. It's one less perspective they receive from which to formulate opinions. I'm not affected either way, as I enjoy my own widened perspective and have gained a lot of knowlege from not limiting who I learn from.

And I agree with you Julia, if my Master directed me not to respond to someone, I would not, despite what that person thought. I will always respect what another submissive/slave's orders are, whether or not I like or agree with them. Since she said she was not directed, that was my understanding, which is what brought me to my opinion.

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 4:53:07 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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OK I'll admit, I didn't get into this bdsm/internet thing until 1998- so it's only been 9 years for me.

But somehow all the things that Saki says weren't available in 1997 (10 years ago) I found in abundance less than 12 months later. And trust me, I wasn't the good kinky ferret researcher like I am now, just a bumbling novice dork falling into things.

Granted, I'm quite the lucky albatross, but that seems a bit extreme that somehow that all happened in the YEAR between when the two of us got active.

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 6:45:34 PM

Vanatru

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Daeldaus, I haven't seen you post before, but I can certainly appreciate your point of view. Welcome to the jungle. *grin*

It was interesting to look through the posts and see females repeatedly adding nothing to the conversation but hot air, and that the actual circle was such a small crowd. I guess they figure by being particularly offensive and vociforous, they're somehow right in their views. Such tactics are neither new or compelling.

sakiedorei, thanks for starting this thread and remaining true to it's nature. It looks like the answers are pretty clear.

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 7:06:27 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vanatru

It was interesting to look through the posts and see females repeatedly adding nothing to the conversation but hot air, and that the actual circle was such a small crowd. I guess they figure by being particularly offensive and vociforous, they're somehow right in their views. Such tactics are neither new or compelling.

Maybe we should have our own "hot air" forum.

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/13/2007 8:03:53 PM

MadRabbit

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I rarely speak in absolutes...

But I hold the absolute belief that anytime the claim "I am Old Guard Trained" is made in an Internet thread, what will proceed after that will be nothing less short of pure amusement and entertainment.

I also hold this absolute belief in regards to the phrase "I have been trained by the 1000 year old Ancient BDSM society."

So far...I have yet to find any fallacy to this absolute belief and will certainly enjoy the constant search to find some...

Saki, when you say you are the propert of Master D...does that D stand for the D in MasterLDeSade?

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/14/2007 9:35:04 AM

sakidorei

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quote:

Valyraen Sir. thank You for conveying Your feelings on my questions Sir. i appreciate the time You took to share Your convictions.

~saki
Property of Master D.

Lumus Sir ... thank You very much for taking the time to address my questions and for the invitation to discourse ... i shall seek You elsewhere for a more in depth discussion. i think You are very correct that it's dangerous to make generalizations or conclusions ... if not dangeous with regards to truth or fiction, certainly in regards to alienation or other reprocussions. i've learned more than i anticipated on this thread ... and the only thing i regret about posting it is any negative reflection that i've had on my Owner. Again, i appreciate Your perspective and time Sir.

Vanatru Sir, thank You again for Your perspective and thoughts and kindness. i am thankful for the time You took to respond Sir.

MadRabbit Sir ... thank You also for taking Your time to follow and contribute to this thread. i respect Your perspective and am grateful for the time You took to voice it Sir. And no Sir ... my Owner is not MasterLDeSade

i've had the good fortune of meeting some really interesting, intelligent, and generous people on this thread, whether they have agreed with me or been wholly offended.

saki
Property of Master D.

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/14/2007 9:50:11 AM

laurell3

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Yeah how bitchy of me to not be topped by some guy I don't know or his partner on an internet board....yesh....respect does happen to be a two way street everywhere in the world. The rules on this forum are made by CM and no one else. Imposing your own set of protocols or ignoring anyone based on sex is neither respectful or polite. When "hot air" consists of someone not following your own stereotypical standard that isn't their own or their partners, what it is is bs.

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RE: Masters ... does it bother You ... ? - 11/14/2007 11:30:17 AM

nyrisa

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quote:

Masters ... does it bother You ... ?

In the interests of grouping the forum into the proper pigeon holes, this sounds more like a poll type question. You could organize it as a poll, with headings such as "no, it doesn't bother me"; "yes, I think it is the end of the world as we know it", and "my opinion doesn't count because I am not a Master and should not be trespassing here anyway". And there is indeed a section of the forum where it would fit......POLLS AND OTHER RANDOM STUPIDITY.

I am not knocking your question, but it does seem that it should have been posed as a poll, and you'd probably get more of an idea of what "this" online community of Masters thinks. Presented as it was, it seems more like a way to infer superiority, and stir up controversy. But......"my opinion doesn't count because I am not a Master and should not be trespassing here anyway"

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