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RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 3:01:17 AM

mons

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kails greetings

he is just cheat to not pay for you drink whatever is it is not right, this happen in the vanilla world so much this is how many end up on those judge shows suing for a credit car bill , meals and so many other things and then you walk home? did he not worry about you in the dark ? i am from the old school i never have paid for any man drink dinner or clothes etc and i still will not . i wonder what has happen to the real man who use to pay for dinner and just make sure you get home. so my thing is he is cheat it has nothing do to with being a dom nothing at all. change him . i know it is easy for me to say you may love this man but find another.

(in reply to kails)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 3:18:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
Giving over 'full control' indicates to me that includes whether or not you're even going to be allowed a drink, much less get it paid for by your dominant. In my opinion, to leave without a word was rude on your part, not the act of a submissive who claims to have given over full control and completely unprovoked. You made several assumptions not the least of which was assuming his motivation on taking you to the pub in the first place, which you thought was to get you a drink, when his motivation may well have been for you to serve him a drink and for you not to drink at all.

Thank you, Celeste. I was beginning to wonder if I was the only submissive/slave on this thread that thought she screwed up because "full control" doesn't mean unless you make a decision I don't like.

This same scenario has happened more than once in our relationship and will happen again. If I wanted a drink when told to go get his, I would ask for one. If he approved it, I would ask how he wanted me to pay for it. I would not just go get his and then sulk because he didn't read my mind and have me get one myself.

Knight's Kyra

*if I have missed other submissive opinions that expressed this I apologize; they got lost among all the other responses.

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 4:20:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterlink65

thanks for the personal attack, that was really mature of you. ummmm at least i have a picture of myself and not something done by someone else.

again,,,,, kails said this was an order not an invite.

and,,,, not one of you has been able to show me where any of this is a sign of good behavior on part of sub

Being rude or being cheap has nothing to do with submissiveness or dominance. What part about that do you not get?

The part I CAN get is that in a vanilla relationship this might be rude or cheap, but the circumstances in a D/s relationship, no matter how casual, are vastly different.

Joe can't tell Sally what to do, but Master Domlishit can refuse lilgurlthirsty a drink. Maybe he didn't want her to have one. Maybe he wanted her to wait until he was done, Maybe he was trying to make a point to her. I honestly don't see anything wrong with a Dom expecting a sub to cook for him and pay her own way. It's not my style, but I hardly think it's cheap as a generalization. No more so than a Dom who commands his sub to tie his shoes is lazy.

The rudeness on her part I agree has nothing to do with submissive behavior. It was rude in any circumstance. I'd be seriously offended if a date walked out instead of telling "I expected you to pay, really" or even just sitting and steaming would be better. And as a submissive, who states she chose to give him total control outside of the bedroom, it was certainly disobediant and rather too like a tantrum for my tastes.

Not only did she display social ineptness as a person, but I would agree she displayed really bad behaviour as a sub.

Was it the way I would do things? No. but would I decide any sort of negative conclusion abotu the Dom based on her post? Absolutely not. And the way it relates is, if Vanilla Joe did it, it would be rude. but if a Dom I chose to let control me did it, it would be considered part of the dynamic until we'd discussed it, I'd figured his motives, and decided whether it made us incompatible.

_____________________________

"The amount i care for Thee
is more than two, but less than three."

"Submission is a potlatch."

(in reply to laurell3)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 4:25:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I have read all the relpies and that being said I agree with MrDiscipline44. But not for the same reasons.

The girl EXPECTED ANYTHING. That was the first wrong. To expect something for anyone is to expect that they will do as you think they should do. It was not up to her if he paid.

Also a LOT of you are commenting on this Dom and you don't know him and you have only one side of this story, perhaps this girl expects to always be taken care up and paid for, this expectation needs to be delt with as it is not what he desires and so he gets into a situation where her expectations are NOT met and she walks out. In a D/s relationship not all of either parties expectations will always be met, some people have too many other people have unrealistic ones, the Point is as I read what the OP has said I see that she feels that there are expectations to her surrender of control she says so right here.

quote:

I did not have a choice about going to a pub, i give full control over to the Dom. But damned if Im gonna go dutch when we go out. Especially considering control is expected and happily given at all times, no matter where we are.

The part I underlined says it all she is only willing to give full control, however is not willing to pay for herself when they go out therefore said surrender comes with an expectation and therefore is not FULL CONTROL.

I think the OP should have asked if she needed to bring any money and if he said yes and she was unwilling to pay then she would have saved herself the walk. I am more concerned that she put herself in further risk by walking home unaccompanied then I am that she was not willing to pay for her own drink, That walk could have cost her her life, I would have sat and watched him drink his drink and then would have asked "Should I ask if I need to bring money when we go out in the future, or will you always expect for me to pay for myself? As since you invited me I did not bring any money and, if I knew I was going to have to pay I would have asked to decline as I am unable to afford such a night out." Now this saves face and shows the Dominant where she stands, perhaps we will realize that her not having money and out at a pub is a little unfair and would have bought her a round or two, but then the baseline would have been established and both parties would know where they stand.

In the end she is at falt for putting herself in the situation to begin with.

As Always

Steel

i so agree!

< Message edited by dawntreader -- 12/5/2007 4:29:40 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 5:22:06 AM

agirl

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Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kails

I can see arguments happening on both sides for this one.

Ok, Im playing with this Dom. He's been fed several meals by me, out of my cupboard. Fine, cosy in fact.

Then he tells me we are going to a pub. We get there, he gives me the amount for his drink and tells me to get it.

I purchase the drink, take it over to him, give him his 5 cents change, turn around, leave the pub and do the 1 1/2 hour walk home. He states later that he does not believe paying for my drink is part of D/s.

Im interested to see what others views are on this. My view is ... I did not have a choice about going to a pub, i give full control over to the Dom. But damned if Im gonna go dutch when we go out. Especially considering control is expected and happily given at all times, no matter where we are.

Opinions ????

My opinion is that although you state that *control is expected and happily given at all times, no matter where we are*; you seem to only expect it to apply in some situations and some ways.

You might not have expected this to happen but you made a huge dramatic gesture by walking off.

Full control is just that. You say that you had no choice about going to the pub and gave full control to the dom.....which included him sending you to get a drink just for him.

If the situation bothered you, what on earth prevented you from asking about it at the time? It just seems silly to stomp off in a paddy when you had an opportunity to talk about something that was obviously mystifying you.

agirl

(in reply to kails)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 5:23:20 AM

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From: Atlanta, GA
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I am still waiting on more info from the OP.

Maybe he wanted to drink more and have her as a designated driver. Maybe he wanted to test/exercise her willingness/ability to obey without question. Again....he did NOT say "get US a drink". Maybe this exercise of his Dominance was going to make his little pee-pee hard and this control test was foreplay. Maybe she is the type of sub that thrives on allowing herself to be placed in situations that seem to make her a poor, poor subbie victim.........There are too many "maybes" here to condemn this guy.

I am NOT saying he was right , just that I need more info. I do agree that her actions seem to warrant a counseling session from a close friend of hers ( whom she should have called for a ride ).

_____________________________

Old Bastard

"You cannot make footprints in the sands of time if you're sitting on your butt. And who wants to make buttprints in the sands of time?" -- Bob Moawad

(in reply to dawntreader)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 5:39:42 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OldBastardly1

her good behavior was having enough self respect to not allow herself to be treated in that manner. And yes....I insist that a sub of mine WILL have self respect AND an opinion.

I have self respect and an opinion..........I wouldn't exercise them by walking out without a word simply because my dom made a move I didn't expect, didn't understand and didn't like.

Isn't this about expectations? Not being bought a drink, being sent to the bar to only purchase one for him dashed her expectations. Would having her supper placed on the floor and having her hands tied, be dashing them too? Or would that enter into the realms of kinky enough to count as ok?

If she had an opinion, she didn't express it at the time; she walked off. Perhaps that IS expressing an opinion but it didn't give HIM much to work on, did it?

agirl

(in reply to OldBastardly1)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 9:03:58 AM

grlneedstolearn

Posts: 728
Joined: 1/29/2007
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When i had money, and now i don't again, he would pay for everything when he could. In the beginning i asked if i should get my half, he always told me no that he would get it. So i don't ask.

(in reply to kails)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 9:26:30 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

Just another person with personal preferences(issues) in real life justifying them in their personal theory of D/s. Does not mean he is not a dominant just means he is classless, cheap and probably just a selfish user of people.

I agree.

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m y s p a c e

(in reply to toservez)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 10:10:57 AM

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quote:

I'm quite clueless as to why you walked out of the pub after getting his drink.

Giving over 'full control' indicates to me that includes whether or not you're even going to be allowed a drink, much less get it paid for by your dominant. In my opinion, to leave without a word was rude on your part, not the act of a submissive who claims to have given over full control and completely unprovoked. You made several assumptions not the least of which was assuming his motivation on taking you to the pub in the first place, which you thought was to get you a drink, when his motivation may well have been for you to serve him a drink and for you not to drink at all.

You said you are fine, cozy in fact, with the meals provided out of your cupboard.. but it sure doesn't seem like you're fine and cozy with it if you bring it up as some sort of excuse for your own rude behavior expecting his reciprocity for your generousity in feeding him.

In my opinion (and you did ask) this was your bad, not his.

Now, that said, he may very well be a cheap son-of-a-bitch .. or, he just might think he's a dom and has a submissive who agreed to give him 'full control' and utilized her as he wished. Only he knows for sure, I guess.

Celeste

words from a true submissive. vey nice.

thank you

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 10:29:13 AM

Posts: 651
Joined: 7/22/2006
From: Atlanta, GA
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I just love it when people use words like "real" or "true" sub/Dom/slave/Master.

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Old Bastard

"You cannot make footprints in the sands of time if you're sitting on your butt. And who wants to make buttprints in the sands of time?" -- Bob Moawad

(in reply to masterlink65)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 10:31:10 AM

stef

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She might graduate from twue submissive to ye Olde Guarde slave if she keeps agreeing with him.

~stef

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Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

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(in reply to OldBastardly1)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 10:34:09 AM

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well,,, a true submissive has the potential for being a slave.
most self proclaimed subs are nothing more than a bottom.

i see my conservative views on this are quite misunderstood. and to clarify something about being conservative. GWB is not what i consider to be a conservative, a conservative does not squander the nations wealth like a drunk sailor or a spoiled little brat

(in reply to OldBastardly1)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 10:34:28 AM

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quote:

I just love it when people use words like "real" or "true" sub/Dom/slave/Master.

Please. Everyone knows it's "weal" and "twue"

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(in reply to stef)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 10:35:33 AM

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she is owned property already. i bet she makes a damn good slave too

(in reply to stef)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 10:35:50 AM

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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

well,,, a true submissive has the potential for being a slave.
most self proclaimed subs are nothing more than a bottom.

Popcorn time...

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 10:38:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: masterlink65

well,,, a true submissive has the potential for being a slave.
most self proclaimed subs are nothing more than a bottom.

i see my conservative views on this are quite misunderstood. and to clarify something about being conservative. GWB is not what i consider to be a conservative, a conservative does not squander the nations wealth like a drunk sailor or a spoiled little brat

You know, I wonder where your absolute declarations are coming from. What are your qualifications to throw out these ridiculous generalizations? I read your profile and saw that you run a house with tattooed guys running around in wife beaters. Are those the "true slaves" you have been referring to as "it" during this entire thread?

But don't listen to me, I am just a self-proclaimed sub who is really a confused bottom who is just likes to bitch slap pretentious jerks on forums.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 12/5/2007 10:41:55 AM >

(in reply to masterlink65)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 10:39:36 AM

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why arent you people bashing the females on here who fell like i do on this. is this causing feeling of inadquacy in you subs. are you realising you may not be the sub you think you are and what you are representing yourself as?

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 10:43:52 AM

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Here we go again........just what I need......someone else defining things for me.
Thanks Mlink, I was wandering though the wilderness lost and hopeless till you came along with your crisp insights.

Jeff
(has SEEN the light)

(in reply to masterlink65)

RE: Going dutch - 12/5/2007 10:45:10 AM

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Oh, yeah...you have made us subs feel soooooo inadequate. I might have to call a therapist today to find out why I am not a "true sub" since masterlinky said I was not.

To answer your question, we are not bashing the women who replied because they responded in a manner that was both respectful to the discussion without resorting to delusional posturing.

(in reply to masterlink65)

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