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RE: Slave rights - 12/12/2007 7:44:42 PM

chellekitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

quote:

Every person, regardless of age, colour, race, religion has basic human rights. As "consentual slavery" is not legal, not recognized in a court of law,

Quite right. That's why I've gone to calling my slaves enemy combatants. Bingo. No rights of any kind. Brilliant.

that is brilliant....nice to see you around SirDominic....

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RE: Slave rights - 12/12/2007 8:03:48 PM

slavegirljoy

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As a volunteer slave, i have the same rights that every free, non-felon, American has, including the right to surrender my rights, in order to have the sort of intimate relationship that i enjoy with my Master.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovethewhip

Does a slave have rights?

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RE: Slave rights - 12/12/2007 9:48:22 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: wisteriaV

Yea what Vanatru my Master said

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vanatru

It's why I've seen a whole lotta women with varying degrees of submissiveness but haven't seen an actual slave yet

Interesting.

This is the funniest observation I've seen in a long time.

C~

Going by the email I received, not everyone shares the same humor

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 12/12/2007 10:14:28 PM >

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RE: Slave rights - 12/12/2007 11:01:29 PM

LittleWench

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quote:

They also have to right to not excerise those rights.

If your Master beats you and you end up with repeated medical attention from a doctor/hospital, and they report it as abuse, the State and/or your family can take steps to have you declared mentally incompetant and take your rights away from you, remove you from the relationship until you get "better". Who has the power in the relationship then? There are circumstances under which the Master could be arrested, have charges placed against them, prosecuted, all without the slave's consent. Who has the power in the relationship then? You as a slave can give up your rights, but heaven forbid you have um's and the word gets out the father of your children beats the crap out of you. They will take your um's away. Who has the power in the relationship then?

quote:

If you call yourself a "slave" and truly wonder if you have "rights", then don't worry about yourself being a slave any longer. It's why I've seen a whole lotta women with varying degrees of submissiveness but haven't seen an actual slave yet

Perhaps because, legally, there is no such thing as ownership?

It's role playing. It's hot, erotic, fulfilling, exciting, nurturing, wonderful role playing. It depends on how fully you immerse yourself in the role.

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RE: Slave rights - 12/12/2007 11:12:06 PM

MissMagnolia

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Slavery is role playing?

Well slap me twice and call me stupid. Thank god you can tell the entire planet what slavery really is. It's not real, just role playing.

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RE: Slave rights - 12/12/2007 11:28:58 PM

LittleWench

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Glad I helped set ya straight!

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RE: Slave rights - 12/13/2007 4:38:14 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

Going by the email I received, not everyone shares the same humor

LMAO

YOu got one too?

Dayum; she was busy yesterday

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RE: Slave rights - 12/13/2007 4:51:49 AM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

As a volunteer slave, i have the same rights that every free, non-felon, American has, including the right to surrender my rights, in order to have the sort of intimate relationship that i enjoy with my Master.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

And by the same token, you have the right to reclaim those rights that you surrender if you so choose. Meaning that those rights are never permanently surrendered, even if that is your intention to do so. They are only suspended until such time as you wish to reclaim them (which may be never).

That is not a meaningless distinction.

John

< Message edited by Rover -- 12/13/2007 4:53:49 AM >

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RE: Slave rights - 12/13/2007 5:01:33 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

If your Master beats you and you end up with repeated medical attention from a doctor/hospital, and they report it as abuse, the State and/or your family can take steps to have you declared mentally incompetant and take your rights away from you, remove you from the relationship until you get "better". Who has the power in the relationship then? There are circumstances under which the Master could be arrested, have charges placed against them, prosecuted, all without the slave's consent. Who has the power in the relationship then? You as a slave can give up your rights, but heaven forbid you have um's and the word gets out the father of your children beats the crap out of you. They will take your um's away. Who has the power in the relationship then?

Hell, lol, my owner used to beat me on a regular basis

Of course, I liked it so...

I spent ALOT of time in hospitals getting patched up from 'accidents'; however, I told my doctor exactly what happened and why. No police ever called; no threats to have me committed ever made. What's more...we had 4 youngins in the house who were VERY aware of what our relationship was like. Once again...no cops ever called; no threats to ever remove them from our care.

Three times in our relationship were either of us ever jailed; but not because charges were brought against us. The police knew us and they put us in a cell overnight so that we could...ummm...calm down lol.

Hell, even if I did ever try and press charges against him; it would have not done any good. I was just as good as he was lol.

quote:

It's role playing. It's hot, erotic, fulfilling, exciting, nurturing, wonderful role playing. It depends on how fully you immerse yourself in the role.

YOU may not be able to equate slavery outside of role playing; but that does not mean that there are not many out there who LIVE this way; trying their best to come as close to actual slavery as they possibly can.

Don't make the mistake of making sweeping generalizations about people unless you know them personally.

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RE: Slave rights - 12/13/2007 5:08:00 AM

Rover

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Fast Reply to no one in particular...

When discussing "slave's rights" I think it's important to limit the discussion to the context of the relationship, rather than extending them beyond to make it seem as though they are rights (or limitations of rights) that become the only rights (or limitations of rights) that an individual has in society, or in life.

Power exchange relationships are personal in nature. Submissives/slaves do not submit to everyone, and Dominants do not dominate everyone. They don't have the right to do so (society has not consented to this relationship dynamic with them). Consenquently, what "rights" (or limitations on rights) a submissive/slave may have within a relationship is solely what those in the relationship have agreed to. But they have no relevance beyond.

That's a meaningful distinction, given that if/when a relationship becomes unfulfilling, or too burdensome, or a submissive/slave is required to *do* something they will/can not (ie: a limit), they can (and will) step outside of the relationship and exercise the rights they have in the whole of society. That may cause the dissolution of the relationship, but every action has its consequences.

Point is, a person's rights as we commonly think of them (legal rights, civil rights, human rights, etc) do not cease to exist within society simply because they become a consensual submissive/slave. They may cease to exist within the dynamic of the relationship if that's what they consent to. And those rights will both exist (in society) and not exist (within the relationship) at the same time. But at any time, whether it be a submissive's/slave's choice or because they are "released", the relationship can cease to exist thereby ending any consensual limitations of their rights within that relationship.

My apology if someone has discussed this previously in the thread... it's just too long for me to read this morning.

John

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RE: Slave rights - 12/13/2007 5:16:05 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

When discussing "slave's rights" I think it's important to limit the discussion to the context of the relationship, rather than extending them beyond to make it seem as though they are rights (or limitations of rights) that become the only rights (or limitations of rights) that an individual has in society, or in life.

Mister Rover

How many times have you seen threads that have tried hard to do just that; but the inevitable always happens. The questions come in...death...C*******, A******....someone always brings up things that have no business being brought into a discussion such as these.

Some people just can not understand that relationships are extremely personal; and that the rights and priveledges within those relationships reflect that.

It's a losing battle.

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RE: Slave rights - 12/13/2007 5:31:06 AM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

How many times have you seen threads that have tried hard to do just that; but the inevitable always happens. The questions come in...death...C*******, A******....someone always brings up things that have no business being brought into a discussion such as these.

Actually, those things have every business being brought up in conversations in which someone makes absolute statements such as "I have no rights". Which is quite a bit different from saying "I have no rights until I choose to have them" or "I have no rights unless I am asked to do something outrageous".

John

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RE: Slave rights - 12/13/2007 5:40:10 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

Actually, those things have every business being brought up in conversations in which someone makes absolute statements such as "I have no rights". Which is quite a bit different from saying "I have no rights until I choose to have them" or "I have no rights unless I am asked to do something outrageous".

John

Perhaps I am just looking at it differently

I don't think those things have any business being brought up; simply because two adults should be able to draw the line where their wants, needs, and desires conflict with legality. I have always held that as soon as someone even brings up such a thing, I am out the door because if they HAVE to mention it; it means that there is no way that we would ever be compatible.

As I said though; this is just how I react when such things are brought up; I know that there are people out there who feel the need to discuss things of that nature. I don't begrudge them that; I just don't agree with it.

However...the real disagreement is in the fact that when on these boards; and someone mentions that they would do anything for their owner; it automatically comes to this point. I fail to see why people can not understand that two adults can be compatible to the point that such a thing would never even be considered and is just as reprehensible to them as it would be to anyone else. Yet; the questions still come.

People sometimes confound me.

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RE: Slave rights - 12/13/2007 5:42:49 AM

LittleWench

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quote:

YOU may not be able to equate slavery outside of role playing; but that does not mean that there are not many out there who LIVE this way; trying their best to come as close to actual slavery as they possibly can.

One of my favourite lines from a movie, Joan Cusak from Working Girl... I can prance around the house in my underwear singing Like a virgin... that doesn't make me Madonna.

I can change how I experience my reality, but I cannot change reality itself.

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RE: Slave rights - 12/13/2007 5:49:55 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleWench

quote:

YOU may not be able to equate slavery outside of role playing; but that does not mean that there are not many out there who LIVE this way; trying their best to come as close to actual slavery as they possibly can.

One of my favourite lines from a movie, Joan Cusak from Working Girl... I can prance around the house in my underwear singing Like a virgin... that doesn't make me Madonna.

I can change how I experience my reality, but I cannot change reality itself.

I never said that you needed to change reality. I said

quote:

YOU may not be able to equate slavery outside of role playing; but that does not mean that there are not many out there who LIVE this way; trying their best to come as close to actual slavery as they possibly can.

Don't make the mistake of making sweeping generalizations about people unless you know them personally.

Your own perception of reality is not the same as others. You made a sweeping generalization

quote:

It's role playing. It's hot, erotic, fulfilling, exciting, nurturing, wonderful role playing. It depends on how fully you immerse yourself in the role.

stating that anyone who called themselves a slave was role-playing because based upon your own perception of what slavery is, such a role was unattainable.

I simple said that you should not base everyone elses relationship choices on your own perception.

edited to add some letters to correct spelling

< Message edited by IrishMist -- 12/13/2007 6:01:20 AM >

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RE: Slave rights - 12/13/2007 6:01:22 AM

wisteriaV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMagnolia

Slavery is role playing?

Well slap me twice and call me stupid. Thank god you can tell the entire planet what slavery really is. It's not real, just role playing.

Thank you MaaM....

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RE: Slave rights - 12/13/2007 2:17:27 PM

LittleWench

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quote:

stating that anyone who called themselves a slave was role-playing because based upon your own perception of what slavery is, such a role was unattainable

No that is not what I said at all.

I didn't give my own perception of what slavery is, I stated that slavery is not legally recognized in western countries. My own perception is defined as my own interpretation, I am giving you the facts of the law in western society. It is not legally recognized. You cannot be owned legally. You do have certain unalienable rights. I can choose to experience my reality however I wish (I can choose not to exercise the rights that my country gave me) but that doesn't change the reality (the fact that I have those rights and they may be exercised on my behalf whether I like it or not).

When another posted that he had never seen a "real slave" because women (his context didn't include men) aren't submissive enough.... I made the suggestion that was perhaps because legally there is no such thing as "real ownership". My comment merely places the responsibility of "feeling the slavery" on both parties, not just the submissive. I could not feel like a slave to a man who himself is a slave to the laws of this country.

I read a story online a few nights ago about a western female reporter who did a story on slavery in an arabic country, slavery as in the traditional historic view, non consentual, no rights, legally bought and sold, property. When the story was published in the US there was a huge influx of caucasian women who went over and had themselves kidnapped and sold and turned into slaves because no where in the US could they experience it as fully as they could in a country where it was still a recognized practise. It was a pretty good read.

What I am saying is that due to the reality of slavery not being recognized in our society, if you wish to experience that, it takes a little leap of faith in order to feel as a slave would. I don't think I ever said weal or twue, merely stuck to the legality and reality it defines, not the reality I define.... world of difference. I never onced belittled anyone who chose to identify as a slave. I was not belittling that leap of faith, that roleplaying at all, indeed I said it was wonderful, nuturing, erotic, hot and fulfilling. My Master made me bark like a dog for 15 minutes last night because my barking was not as good as it should be for a pet.... no matter how much I might want it to, that doesn't make me a puppy dog.

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RE: Slave rights - 12/13/2007 6:02:15 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

However...the real disagreement is in the fact that when on these boards; and someone mentions that they would do anything for their owner; it automatically comes to this point. I fail to see why people can not understand that two adults can be compatible to the point that such a thing would never even be considered and is just as reprehensible to them as it would be to anyone else. Yet; the questions still come.

People sometimes confound me.

Compatibility of limits does not mean that they cease to exist. It simply means, as you have well stated, that being compatible means that they will not be exceeded. Again, that is a far cry from a universal statement of having no rights and no limits. It seems as though admitting the obvious reality detracts from the enjoyment some folks derive from the fantasy.

Fantasies are all well and good, and folks are welcome to enjoy them. But when a fantasy is portrayed as reality, the rest of us have not consented to playing along. Want to enjoy the fantasy uninterrupted? Don't mention it in a public fashion where others are bound to respond to the contrary.

To your credit, you've not engaged in such fantasy in this discussion and I don't wish to imply that you have.

John

P.S. - We're humans... the most curiously confounding creatures on the planet.

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RE: Slave rights - 12/13/2007 8:09:23 PM

Wildfleurs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleWench

I didn't give my own perception of what slavery is, I stated that slavery is not legally recognized in western countries. My own perception is defined as my own interpretation, I am giving you the facts of the law in western society. It is not legally recognized. You cannot be owned legally. You do have certain unalienable rights. I can choose to experience my reality however I wish (I can choose not to exercise the rights that my country gave me) but that doesn't change the reality (the fact that I have those rights and they may be exercised on my behalf whether I like it or not).

A couple of thoughts to consider...

- I think there's a definite historical precedence in America of people ignoring legal recognition of status for the purpose of asserting new rights (the civil rights movement in the 60's) or ignoring existing legal rights for their own moral standards (anti-gun ownership people who ignore their constitutional right to bear arms). So really I think history bears out that legal rights (or lack of rights) do not define the sum of what a person is (or is not).

- I didn't see many people using legal status and recognition of status as a slave as the defining point of what makes a slave. There are perfectly good dictionary definitions of slave that have nothing to do with legal status or societal recognition. So while I recognize that your personal defintion seems to rest on those two parameters, quite literally the concept and definition of slavery has nothing to do with legal status or systems.

C~

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RE: Slave rights - 12/13/2007 8:27:49 PM

LittleWench

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quote:

So while I recognize that your personal defintion seems to rest on those two parameters, quite literally the concept and definition of slavery has nothing to do with legal status or systems.

That would mean then that there is a difference between conceptual slavery, literal slavery, definitive slavery, legal slavery and systematic slavery?

I am in too good a mood to argue definitions. Master bought me 7 gorgeous pairs of panties and ordered me to throw all my old ones out!

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