Collarchat.com

Join Our Community
Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 3:35:46 AM   
beeble


Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

LotusSong wrote: I think I would ask them for their definition of prostitute.

Why?  They're not calling the OP a prostitute to educate her or to start an intellectual discussion.  They're calling her a prostitute to insult her and because they're assholes.  Sure, we can have a discussion among ourselves about why they do this but there's no more point asking an asshole why he or she is an asshole than there is in asking an eighteen month old child why he or she can't work out that the red, square block goes through the red, square hole, not the blue, star-shaped hole.  It is simply beyond their comprehension.


(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 3:58:11 AM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beeble

quote:

LotusSong wrote: I think I would ask them for their definition of prostitute.

Why?  They're not calling the OP a prostitute to educate her or to start an intellectual discussion.  They're calling her a prostitute to insult her and because they're assholes.  Sure, we can have a discussion among ourselves about why they do this but there's no more point asking an asshole why he or she is an asshole than there is in asking an eighteen month old child why he or she can't work out that the red, square block goes through the red, square hole, not the blue, star-shaped hole.  It is simply beyond their comprehension.


You bring up a good point, these people are not trying to spark a discussion... I am, though.  If we're going to discuss prostitutes, how do we define the term?

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to beeble)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 5:13:58 AM   
LadyLupineNYC


Posts: 618
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora
"Your honor, if I kick you in the balls with these 6 inch platforms and stomp on your cock with these golf shoes and you get off, I'm guilty as sin....."


*spits out tea*

Are you spying on my sessions?!

_____________________________

Facta, non verba gratia placenti

"I have been looking for a way to serve the community that incorporates my violence..."


(in reply to MisPandora)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 7:15:04 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

If we're going to discuss prostitutes, how do we define the term?


I would initially say that a prostitute would be one who provides sexual activities in return for payment. But that isnt a satisfactory definition, either by reference to what constitutes payment or to what constitutes sexual activities.

If we narrow payment to the exchange of money, then this is not adequate - since for instance I know of addicts who will undertake sexual activites with drug dealers to get their next fix. And there are many anecdotal instances of sexual activities being exchanged for all manner of forms of payment in kind in more reputable areas of life too. Indeed, we would inevitably finish with saying that sexual activites in any context other than purely for the pleasure of them or within a loving relationship would constitute prostitution.

But harder to define would be sexual activities - not the least of which would be because what might constitute sexual activity is different for each of us, notwithstanding certain commonalities. If someone pays me to whip them because they consider that a sexual activity, do I then become a prostitute by default, even if my understanding is that whipping someone is not a sexual activity in itself? We end up coming to the conclusion that sexual activity such as all could agree was sexual activity, are the commonalities of sexual activity - penetration and/or orgasm. But still this is not satisfactory, given the whipping example above, in that for the activity to qualify, then there must be the understanding and intent by both parties for the activity to result in penetration and/or orgasm.

Thus, for the description prostitute to apply, there must be value exchanged for agreed consensual sexual activity intendedly resulting in, or part of which includes, penetration and/or orgasm, absent any other consideration such as desire, pleasure or love on the part of the payee.

Since much of the appeal of the pro-domme is her unavailability (in my opinion), the wise pro-domme will not agree to provide sexual activity intended to result in or include penetration or orgasm. Her role is to titillate and tease, and her repeat business will rely on her ability to do this - bringing her clients to the edge but never knowingly permitting them complete fulfilment of their desires. Rather, she will use the desire her clients have for her to ensure their continued desire.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 8:54:35 AM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

I think I would ask them for their definition of prostitute.


A friend of mine is a VERY WELL KNOWN professional dominant who has been one for many years now. Years back, when I was new to the scene, she and I were engaging in an interview (I was working freelance for one of the bdsm journals in California), and I asked about how she reacts to being called a prostitute rather than a professional dominant. She went on for about five minutes of explanation of how she IS a prostitute because her definition was centered on the word "sex" in that it did not mean intercourse for her, but sexual arousal, which she claimed it would be foolish and hypocritical to say that there was no "sex" involved in pro domination. She said that there were some sessions where it was limited to non existent, but that was the rarity, not the normality.

This is a woman who would NEVER offer sex in her sessions. Oh, she might tie up a friend and screw his or her brains out, but it would never be part of a professional session.


_____________________________

<---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me


http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 11:15:28 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beeble

quote:

LotusSong wrote: I think I would ask them for their definition of prostitute.

Why?  They're not calling the OP a prostitute to educate her or to start an intellectual discussion.  They're calling her a prostitute to insult her and because they're assholes. 


You see, I would cooly ask them that. And if they think that is what they are "buying".. I'd show them the door.  They can just take their needy little pecker elswhere... and hopfully get an education from the encounter.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to beeble)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 11:27:54 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

I think I would ask them for their definition of prostitute.


A friend of mine is a VERY WELL KNOWN professional dominant who has been one for many years now. Years back, when I was new to the scene, she and I were engaging in an interview (I was working freelance for one of the bdsm journals in California), and I asked about how she reacts to being called a prostitute rather than a professional dominant. She went on for about five minutes of explanation of how she IS a prostitute because her definition was centered on the word "sex" in that it did not mean intercourse for her, but sexual arousal, which she claimed it would be foolish and hypocritical to say that there was no "sex" involved in pro domination. She said that there were some sessions where it was limited to non existent, but that was the rarity, not the normality.

This is a woman who would NEVER offer sex in her sessions. Oh, she might tie up a friend and screw his or her brains out, but it would never be part of a professional session.


 
I've come to feel sympathy for this profession.  While once in awhile they get lucky and get a decenet sincere man who really wants to submit to a dominant woman.. the majority of the guys are the ones who couldn't attract a hungry wolf with a raw steak tied around their  neck.
 
If men are so upset about paying.  they just need to quit offering money.  I know when I first came on the scene and a guy would find out I was a Domme.. the FIRST question he'd ask is "How much do you charge?" and it made no difference if I had no experience or years of experience.
 
I hope my comments here are not being taken as unsupportive of the pros.  They are only filling the demand for those who want an experience with no strings.  Then to get put down for it- that's the true insult.  

  (edited to clarify something)

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 12/24/2007 11:33:40 AM >


_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to littlesarbonn)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 11:30:51 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

"Your honor, if I kick you in the balls with these 6 inch platforms and stomp on your cock with these golf shoes and you get off, I'm guilty as sin....."


I Love it!

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to MisPandora)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 2:41:16 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
A wonderful and logical breakdown.

As you point out, operational definitions are distortable.  My goals was to point out how a word is just a word, and we should take whatever we want from it.


_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 2:51:48 PM   
AnnabelHell


Posts: 36
Joined: 10/14/2007
From: Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline
I posted something about this in another thread a few days ago. Here's the part about the legality of what we do, and the fact in most places Domination is still seen by many as prostitution.

If you'd like to read the rest of the essay it can be found here. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1490656

Pasted from the other thread ----->

Society may be more forward about entertainment and beginning to loosen up a little sexually, but our opinions of prostitution have not changed, and neither has the stigma of Domination being Prostitution in most places. This perception has been slow to change.

Nearly every website you go to of a legitimate Domina will say ‘Domination is not prostitution’ or something about sexual services not being offered. That’s because we all fight that stigma and for the right to do what we do without social and legal persecution. We are still persecuted and attached to the sex-trade. It isn’t that we have any issue with women who work in that industry, it’s that we see ourselves as offering a different kind of service that is legal at this time. Unfortunately, until the sex trade as a whole is legal where you live, as it stands right now you have to work VERY hard as a Professional Domina to separate yourself from being seen as a prostitute if you are legitimate.

Also, geographically, some places are more open than others. Not all of us can live in Southern California, or Europe where Fetish is more accepted. Many still live in very conservative communities where they have to be very careful about the business they do.

The simple answer is: YES, in most places, Professional Domination is legal.

BUT…

Anytime a Domina is starting her business she absolutely needs to research the laws in her area. They vary, and each place will define Professional Domination differently, and the laws that apply to it will be different. Most clients won’t really have thought about it, so it’s up to you as the Domina to know what’s OK and what is not and control the environment in which you provide your services so that both you and your client are as safe as possible. The more you do to protect yourself and your clients, the better.

For example, some places require a license, and some do not. Some places say skin-to-skin contact (like hand to bare bottom spanking) is illegal. Some places might say any physical contact is illegal. Others might say any “sexual” contact is illegal and you then have to define what that is.

It can be complicated, and even if you follow the law to a T you still may find yourself explaining to a judge how what you do is not soliciting, or having sex for money. The fact is if a community is trying to stamp out adult business in your area, it won’t matter much; chances are you will get some negative attention. You have to be informed, and do your best to comply with the standards and laws of the community you reside in.

The more social standards change, the more you will see the business practices of legitimate in person Dominant women changing. As it is safer for them to be who they are, and what they do is more accepted as a legal legitimate business they will be able to be more open and secure in the business they do. For now, the closet door is cracked.
<----- End paste.

Additionaly I think it depends on how you, and the community you are in defines Prostitution. I, personally, do not consider myself a prostitute and I don't consider legitimate Professional Domination to be prostitution.

I am happy to say neither does the law in my community. I recently had a very frightening experience with a client that ended with me having to seek help from the police. I was afraid of how I would be treated and if they would even help me, but I was very suprised. They actually had protocol in place for dealing with this kind of thing already, and they were extremely respectful to me through-out. No one ever made me feel like a prostitute or a sexual object and the focus was on if a crime had been commited, not on my sexual ethics or practices.

I was up front with them from the very beginning about being a Professional Dominatrix. No one even batted an eye-lash and they instantly went to work trying to help me. They treated me like a person, and talked to me like I was a human being. The officer who took my report told me she'd been to classes dealing with this very thing and their department had worked very hard to educate themselves. I was shocked, honestly. I don't live in a liberal city. I am in a conservative-midwest town where I fully expected to be persecuted or ignored for being a Pro. They not only helped me, they may have saved my life. As bad as it started out it actually turned out to be a positive and affirmative experience for me. I assume the laws in other areas are different and other people may not react the same way but I think socially we've become a lot more accepting of alternative lifestyles in the past few years.

< Message edited by AnnabelHell -- 12/24/2007 3:08:00 PM >

(in reply to MisPandora)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 2:55:39 PM   
JordanNYC


Posts: 123
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
how has this thread gone from it's origin to this?

_____________________________

www.missjordanjones.com

(in reply to AnnabelHell)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 3:50:38 PM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper
If we're going to discuss prostitutes, how do we define the term?


Every society grapples with the question what does - and does not - constitute the World's Oldest Profession.

In western democracy, the legal system of your area (combination of legislators and courts) is left with the dirty job of choosing and enforcing a definition that is supposed to best reflect the moral values of the majority of people who vote.

Therefore no-one can give you a precise universal definition.  It completely depends on your jurisdiction (and hence where you choose to live and vote).

 OP, look up "prostitution" under Florida law.  I can give you a precise definition in Victoria, Australia.  But both will be completely different to the definition in New York State (where the OP is being called a "prostitute"), because there is no "One True Meaning"

But I take the OP and other's point: the terms "prostitute" and "whore" are value-laden. Prostitution is a terrible sin in religious societies.  So in secular society like the US, it continues to mean a woman who is morally "bad".

But I still don't really understand why a Domme would let being called prostitute upset her. She either is - or isn't - as defined by the law in her state.  That is completely her free choice. These guys are just mad because they want her but cannot afford her.   And they know it.



_____________________________

<----- Corset, mask and collar designed and manufactured by metalsmith Karl H, chromed and lined in black suede. Masks and collars available from http://www.lucreziadesade.com.au/default.html. Corsets custom made only

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 4:08:43 PM   
AnnabelHell


Posts: 36
Joined: 10/14/2007
From: Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline
I am particular about the kinds of things I offer Professionally, I practice Risk Aware Consensual Kink 'RACK', and I am aware of and abide by all laws and regulations in my community. I don't consider myself to be a prostitute but I have no mortal or ethical issues with prostitution. I think it should be legal. I will never be the person who tells someone else how to define herself, or her business. Just because I don't define my business that way doesn't mean I have issues with people who identify differently. No matter if you are one or not, or if you are ok with it or not, there is a negative social stigma attached to being one. It is a stigma I have fought very hard to seperate myself from, not because I have moral objections to sex for money, but because it is not the kind of business I chose for myself, or the kind of attention I want from men. No matter if it is the kind of business you want or are, it's still the kind of businesses you get treated as sometimes, and I think it's an issue for many Professional women. I can't tell anyone else how to define their business or what kind of business they should do. This is only how I manage and feel about my own.

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 4:25:34 PM   
Petronius


Posts: 289
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JordanNYC

i am finding submissive men are writing me here more and more often simply to insult me and call me a prostitute. wtf? are they just frustrated? are they THAT pathetic? either way, it's irritating, to say the least.


I can understand and sympathize with JordanNYC's frustration ... but a lot of it also crashes on a section of reality that a lot of pro Domme's have difficulty recognizing: there may be no professional Dommes who work as prostitutes but there are a large number of prostitutes who claim -- at different times, with different customers, and in different areas -- to be professional Dommes.

It is an unfortunate part of reality but, like the common cold, doesn't go away simply because it is bothersome.

Recognizing the problem exists then puts people in a better position to do something to minimize it, other than asking, in essence "Why do men who sometimes run into prostitutes calling themselves 'professional Dommes' sometimes think that women who call themselves 'professional Dommes' are really prostitutes?"

To ask the question that way is to answer it.

(in reply to JordanNYC)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 4:32:04 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
petronious i see what you are saying, but in the context of the OP Jordan stated "Insult me and call me a prostitute"  That indicates to me that the guys are using it in a negative context. Probaly to try and elicit a response. Just in the same way some guys call a woman fat, even if she isnt, they just know it will hurt.

(in reply to Petronius)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 4:56:17 PM   
JordanNYC


Posts: 123
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne
But I still don't really understand why a Domme would let being called prostitute upset her. She either is - or isn't - as defined by the law in her state.  That is completely her free choice. These guys are just mad because they want her but cannot afford her.   And they know it.


I am upset with the notion of supposedly submissive men being rude without the slightest provocation. Being insulting in every shape and form possible. I don't give a hoot what the legal definition is. I care that pathetic assholes are insulting me for the sake of feeling better about their worthless selves.

_____________________________

www.missjordanjones.com

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 5:10:54 PM   
LadyLupineNYC


Posts: 618
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline
I repeat what I stated before: 'domme baiting'

_____________________________

Facta, non verba gratia placenti

"I have been looking for a way to serve the community that incorporates my violence..."


(in reply to JordanNYC)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 5:13:15 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLupineNYC

I repeat what I stated before: 'domme baiting'


I never can seem to find the right lures.


_____________________________

<---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me


http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

(in reply to LadyLupineNYC)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 5:23:36 PM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnnabelHell

No matter if you are one or not, or if you are ok with it or not, there is a negative social stigma attached to being one. ..... No matter if it is the kind of business you want or are, it's still the kind of businesses you get treated as sometimes, and I think it's an issue for many Professional women.


Just a clarification - I am not and never have been a pro-domme or a prostitute. 

Many friends are (and out and proud), but we live in a free country where it is not a crime. 


_____________________________

<----- Corset, mask and collar designed and manufactured by metalsmith Karl H, chromed and lined in black suede. Masks and collars available from http://www.lucreziadesade.com.au/default.html. Corsets custom made only

(in reply to AnnabelHell)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/24/2007 5:48:16 PM   
MuscleCuteClever


Posts: 61
Joined: 9/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JordanNYC

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne
But I still don't really understand why a Domme would let being called prostitute upset her. She either is - or isn't - as defined by the law in her state.  That is completely her free choice. These guys are just mad because they want her but cannot afford her.   And they know it.


I am upset with the notion of supposedly submissive men being rude without the slightest provocation. Being insulting in every shape and form possible. I don't give a hoot what the legal definition is. I care that pathetic assholes are insulting me for the sake of feeling better about their worthless selves.



Here is the quote of CM at the top of the page:

"The Largest BDSM Community on the Planet"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/community

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/personal

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/social



You say: "pathetic assholes are insulting you for the sake of feeling better about themselves".

There could be a possility that they come here with the impression they are going to validate their sexuality as a real person as (opposed to your pocket) then feel as though what they come across makes them sort of worthless, then they feel insulted at this and call you a prostitute.  To which you call them worthless in turn.  There are a lot of Dommes also that would like to validate their sexuality as a real relationship too.

There are some very poinient reason I think, that a Domme finds it hard to find a sub.

(in reply to JordanNYC)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.346