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ORIGINAL: ElaineSubmits
I think the real question is whether those whose motivation is primarily financial should be considered a legitimate part of the bdsm community, or simply parasites upon that community. 

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Personally, I find it hard to understand how any submissive could find it very meaningful to "submit" to someone who was interested in him or her strictly for the buck.

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ORIGINAL: ElaineSubmits

It's puzzling to me what the big deal is about a "pro domme" being called a prostitute.   The laws definining prostitution differ in every jurisdiction.  Traditionally, "sex" was defined as penetration, so by that standard most "pro dommes" are not, per se, engaged in prostitution.   Many people think of a prostitute as anyone who provides a sexual service for money, so by that standard, it is prostitution, and in some jurisdictions, the law does take a similar definition.   I think the real question is whether those whose motivation is primarily financial should be considered a legitimate part of the bdsm community, or simply parasites upon that community.    Personally, I find it hard to understand how any submissive could find it very meaningful to "submit" to someone who was interested in him or her strictly for the buck.

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ORIGINAL: MsSaskia
I serve on a board of directors for a leather charity

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ORIGINAL: Saaaam

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ORIGINAL: MsSaskia
I serve on a board of directors for a leather charity

What does a leather charity do?

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ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

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ORIGINAL: ElaineSubmits

It's puzzling to me what the big deal is about a "pro domme" being called a prostitute.   The laws definining prostitution differ in every jurisdiction.  Traditionally, "sex" was defined as penetration, so by that standard most "pro dommes" are not, per se, engaged in prostitution.   Many people think of a prostitute as anyone who provides a sexual service for money, so by that standard, it is prostitution, and in some jurisdictions, the law does take a similar definition.   I think the real question is whether those whose motivation is primarily financial should be considered a legitimate part of the bdsm community, or simply parasites upon that community.    Personally, I find it hard to understand how any submissive could find it very meaningful to "submit" to someone who was interested in him or her strictly for the buck.

I likes it. QFT. 

Allow me to bring forth the philosophical paradox in all BDSM.  I firmly believe the submissive has the Ace of Spades.  All the other cards are given and taken at the dominant's will (plus agreed limitations).  The submissive can always leave.  For that matter, so can the dominant, but it's rare to find dominants feeling abused. (Please hold your 1 in 1,000,000,000 stories).

Like all dominants, pro dommes are limited by that Ace of Spades.  D/s couples (here meaning clients and professionals, aswell) silently agree to pretend the dominant is in control.  This is why it's called submission.  Temporarily submitting one's power to another's.

Silently.  It means we don't bring it up.  D/s relationships (here not meaning professionals and clients) do this by not talking about it.  You rarely see a slave teasing his or her master about having the ultimate power, even though she does. 

In professional-client D/s relationships, clients do not brag about their having the ultimate power.  By calling the domme a prostitute one is doing the opposite.  Calling your (would-be) pro-domme a prostitute is reminding her that her power (as a dominant) is untrue.  It's treating the domme like an employee, which is a position of submission, not dominance.

....

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ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

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ORIGINAL: ElaineSubmits

It's puzzling to me what the big deal is about a "pro domme" being called a prostitute.   The laws definining prostitution differ in every jurisdiction.  Traditionally, "sex" was defined as penetration, so by that standard most "pro dommes" are not, per se, engaged in prostitution.   Many people think of a prostitute as anyone who provides a sexual service for money, so by that standard, it is prostitution, and in some jurisdictions, the law does take a similar definition.   I think the real question is whether those whose motivation is primarily financial should be considered a legitimate part of the bdsm community, or simply parasites upon that community.    Personally, I find it hard to understand how any submissive could find it very meaningful to "submit" to someone who was interested in him or her strictly for the buck.

What a charming introduction to CollarChat!  Your very first post, and you're calling pro dommes parasites. 

I know that people like you are obsessed and fixated on the financial aspect of pro domination and have made up your mind that that's the only significance of a professional relationship, but there are a lot of businesses that cater exclusively to the BDSM community.  Every vendor you see online or at a conference caters exclusively to the BDSM community and earns their living that way.  Every person who runs a BDSM club is catering to the BDSM community and earning a buck doing so.  Do you figure every person who earns money by catering to the BDSM enthusiast is a parasite, or do you just have a special place in your heart for pro dommes?

And as far as me personally being a parasite on my BDSM community, I serve on a board of directors for a leather charity, volunteer regularly at a leather club and at our annual leather conference, and present endless workshops, all free of charge as a service to my community.  So eat me.  For free. 

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ORIGINAL: MuscleCuteClever

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: MuscleCuteClever

and yeh, them guys who want to get Pro session etc.  I think they are a pain too and influence the social environment of these places in such a way that is detrimental to others.

How can anyone who is more openminded than you, influence anywhere to be socially detrimental ?   pro Dommes provide a service, some guys decide to use it. Whats the problem with this in general and how does it affect yor enviroment ?

Being open minded or not is not the same thing as being intelligent and understanding sociology or not.  Seeing as you asked I have spoken to many Dommes from all over the world over the years on this thing now and its all the same, they dont find, some never will therfor a Pro Dommes (who is into it) chances will be less if not as little as a cold day in hell. 


No offence these are the facts.


People in the scene often regard their aspirations within the scene as an individual, Which would be good if the larger environment was functional enough for the individual’s aspirations to succeed within. However as some might know it is a relatively dysfunctional environment especially for F/m. 

The larger environment is what the individual exists within so an individual’s aspirations are sought from that.  Therefore individualism does not always lend itself to the environment, Co-operation would improve the larger environment and move towards an environment where individualism is more viable.

I think the complaints and issues are just a reflection of the things others take issue with and part of a hypocrisy in which people either fail or neglect to realize, which in turn gets echoed back and forth.  Few seem to have a "“sociological telescope"” powerful enough to see it.


I have 100's of pages written up on this subject,

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ORIGINAL: ElaineSubmits
It's puzzling to me what the big deal is about a "pro domme" being called a prostitute.  

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I think the real question is whether those whose motivation is primarily financial should be considered a legitimate part of the bdsm community, or simply parasites upon that community.

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Personally, I find it hard to understand how any submissive could find it very meaningful to "submit" to someone who was interested in him or her strictly for the buck.

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"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta
As you probably already know, you will always have to confront shit like this. You can’t justify or make good common sense to people who have no clue and shrouded with ignorance. Once they have this agenda wild horses won’t change their mind. Even if they say, “Oh yeah, that makes sense!” The reality is that they will never really understand.

I have spent years and years making contributions to the community. Countless venues, articles, workshops, groups, free sites, way too many damn emails. There are the people that appreciate what you do, learn from it and then there are the people that want to pick it apart and find something evil. Its an aspect of human nature I hate but nonetheless part of our existence. I hate seeing such a beautiful and intelligent woman as yourself (and the other truly incredible Goddesses that SPEND their precious fucking time being here in the first place) waste your time to defend any of this. I understand why you do and I’ve also been up on that soap box.

My profile clearly states that I charge a fee for training. Nope, not a pro domme but and experienced lifestyle mistress that accepts student for a journey. Call it what you will but that I my platform. So I give them my web site and after they actually READ that they have to PAY money to talk to me I get these nasty ass, ignorant replies about NOT being real, only in it for the money, blah blah. “But Goddess I am applying for a domestic servant to make YOUR world better. A full time 24/7 slave.” Yeah right! 95% (or higher) of the ALL people (yes even here with all the REAL lifestyle people) haven’t a clue what that really means. Sometimes I read these threads and shake my head. WTF? They honestly have no idea what goes into building a well balanced D/s relationship, ESPECIALLY one that integrates the lifestyle.

So I am learning to do what I do in the state I live in now (Virginia) filled with hardcore conservative bible thumping prejudice beings… I smile, say “God Bless you too.” and I walk away. I don’t let it ruffles my feather… I mean I try not to - lol- and I remind myself that it’s the journey they are on. Big, small, right, wrong- we all are on one and the only thing you can really do is live as an example of what you truly believe.

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ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

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ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta
As you probably already know, you will always have to confront shit like this. You can’t justify or make good common sense to people who have no clue and shrouded with ignorance. Once they have this agenda wild horses won’t change their mind. Even if they say, “Oh yeah, that makes sense!” The reality is that they will never really understand.

I have spent years and years making contributions to the community. Countless venues, articles, workshops, groups, free sites, way too many damn emails. There are the people that appreciate what you do, learn from it and then there are the people that want to pick it apart and find something evil. Its an aspect of human nature I hate but nonetheless part of our existence. I hate seeing such a beautiful and intelligent woman as yourself (and the other truly incredible Goddesses that SPEND their precious fucking time being here in the first place) waste your time to defend any of this. I understand why you do and I’ve also been up on that soap box.

My profile clearly states that I charge a fee for training. Nope, not a pro domme but and experienced lifestyle mistress that accepts student for a journey. Call it what you will but that I my platform. So I give them my web site and after they actually READ that they have to PAY money to talk to me I get these nasty ass, ignorant replies about NOT being real, only in it for the money, blah blah. “But Goddess I am applying for a domestic servant to make YOUR world better. A full time 24/7 slave.” Yeah right! 95% (or higher) of the ALL people (yes even here with all the REAL lifestyle people) haven’t a clue what that really means. Sometimes I read these threads and shake my head. WTF? They honestly have no idea what goes into building a well balanced D/s relationship, ESPECIALLY one that integrates the lifestyle.

So I am learning to do what I do in the state I live in now (Virginia) filled with hardcore conservative bible thumping prejudice beings… I smile, say “God Bless you too.” and I walk away. I don’t let it ruffles my feather… I mean I try not to - lol- and I remind myself that it’s the journey they are on. Big, small, right, wrong- we all are on one and the only thing you can really do is live as an example of what you truly believe.

You're absolutely right, which is no surprise.  I have to wonder if I have a masochistic streak when I click on threads that are obviously bashing pro dommes. 

I can't remember the exact term, but there's something like Skinner's law of intermittent reward that explains why people play slot machines, wear down their beaks on little levers and only occasionally get some seeds, or continue to argue with complete strangers whose minds are made up.  After 11 years in my own community, full of people who had very set ideas about what a pro domme is and isn't, I've had so many conversations with people who've told me some variation of, "You know, I used to think X about pro dommes, but after getting to know you, I've had to completely rethink all that.  I'm sorry, and thank you for your patience."  It only happens a couple of times a year, but it feels so good, I keep up with the repetitive behavior that yields questionably adequate rewards. 

It also feels good to say "up yours" to a smug jerk now and then. 

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ORIGINAL: MsSaskia


It also feels good to say "up yours" to a smug jerk now and then. 

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ORIGINAL: ElaineSubmits

It's interesting that the customers for the "pro dominants" are almost entirely male, as with customers for "sex workers" of all sorts.   And why is it that "pro subs" are so rare?

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ORIGINAL: ElaineSubmits

It's interesting that the customers for the "pro dominants" are almost entirely male, as with customers for "sex workers" of all sorts.   And why is it that "pro subs" are so rare?

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ORIGINAL: MystressDream
MsSaskia gets those kinds of comments from people in our community because of the person she is.  They see the quality, and the dedication to this community, and appreciate it.  She is very knowledgable, and is willing to share her expertise by way of demos and presentations.  She is appreciated and brings respect to what some very close minded people didn't believe was a respectful profession.  It's why I send submissives her way when they appear to need the services of a pro rather than a relationship with a lifestyle Domme.  Count me as one of the local people who respect her.... for what she does, and for who she is.

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ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

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ORIGINAL: ElaineSubmits

It's interesting that the customers for the "pro dominants" are almost entirely male, as with customers for "sex workers" of all sorts.   And why is it that "pro subs" are so rare?

Perhaps it has escaped your notice that men earn more money than women and have more disposable income, and that it's easier for women to find dominant, no-strings-attached partners than it is for males.  If you're clear on that and still aren't sure why things are the way they are, an introductory course in economics could help you get an understanding of supply and demand.