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RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/27/2007 2:27:36 PM   
MsCfromMelbourne


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Sorry!! 

Oops...I guess that means subfever will be back again....sorry darl!!!

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RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/27/2007 2:39:39 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElaineSubmits

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElaineSubmits

It's interesting that the customers for the "pro dominants" are almost entirely male, as with customers for "sex workers" of all sorts.   And why is it that "pro subs" are so rare?


Perhaps it has escaped your notice that men earn more money than women and have more disposable income, and that it's easier for women to find dominant, no-strings-attached partners than it is for males.  If you're clear on that and still aren't sure why things are the way they are, an introductory course in economics could help you get an understanding of supply and demand.


That's  a classic example of "the fallacy of composition."   Obviously, women in general have less disposable income than men in general, but there are a significant number of affluent women.  I don't think it's a matter of economics.   I don't wish to get into male-bashing, but I think it is generally accepted that men have a greater willingness or ability to separate sex from intimacy than women have.   The proportion of women seeking "no strings attached partners" in CM adverts is also much lower than the proportion of men.   I don't see any obvious reasons though why there are so few submissives-for-hire.    I have heard it suggested that it's because many ordinary prostitutes are willing to offer that service, but I've not seen any evidence cited.


People who make sweeping generalizations shouldn't throw stones at other people for making generalizations.

Yes, there are some affluent women who can afford a pro and don't feel like pursuing a non-professional relationship.  We get those women as clients, too, maybe once a year, if that. And there are some women who send their husbands in for punishment and there are some women who come in with their male partners and watch them submit to the domme or learn how to dominate their mates or submit to the domme while the male partner watches.  Again, less than 5% of our clientele.

There are few exclusive submissives for hire because the people with the money (you know, men) tend to prefer a complete break from reality in their recreation time instead of being in control and making all the decisions like they do everywhere else.  There isn't enough work for many people to be available solely as professional submissives.  What you'll find if you really pay attention, though, is that there are a lot of switches working as professional dominants the majority of the time who are willing to switch for a client under the right circumstances for a higher fee.  Four of the six people in my house of domination are switches, but not advertise as such. 

Pro submissives generally (there's that word again) command a higher fee because they're risking and incurring physical damage from even the most expert dominant clients, and there are few expert dominant clients out there that really know what they're doing enough to not unknowingly cause damage or leave marks, nor are they necessarily going to be conscientious about not leaving even if they agree to that ("Oopsie! Did I do that, you naughty girl?") .  Professional submissives cannot work as often because they have to be able to present an unmarked body for a client, which means the pro sub cannot do as they please in their personal lives if it means being marked.  Since marks from a heavy corporal session can last more than a month, it's really not worth the money to be out of commission for that length of time.  Professional submissives also typically have a colleague in the room with them during a professional session to make sure that nothing happens to them while they're restrained that they haven't absolutely agreed to, and those colleagues have to be paid, too. 

As someone who's extremely familiar with the industry you're questioning, you'll just have to take my "fallacy of composition" at face value.  If you need statistical evidence of some kind, you're on your own. 

(in reply to ElaineSubmits)
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RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/27/2007 2:41:55 PM   
slapdick2007


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Mistress, this obedient slave would never call you a whore.
This slave would worship the ground Mistress walks on.

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/27/2007 2:42:35 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

Sorry!! 

Oops...I guess that means subfever will be back again....sorry darl!!!


I'm taking my ball, going home, and never coming back...

Waaaaaaahhh!

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/27/2007 2:46:12 PM   
LadyLupineNYC


Posts: 618
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElaineSubmits
The proportion of women seeking "no strings attached partners" in CM adverts is also much lower than the proportion of men.   I don't see any obvious reasons though why there are so few submissives-for-hire.    I have heard it suggested that it's because many ordinary prostitutes are willing to offer that service, but I've not seen any evidence cited.


Interestingly enough...in my 'vanilia' life I absolutly DO seek out those kinds of relations...they tend to last maybe a mouth or less than 3 months.   I have found that it is the guys who become attached.  At 1st they are all super excited, thinking they found exactly what they always say they want: the whole relationship without an actually realtionship and they love it...then they get very attached, sometimes falling in love, and I end up doing exactly what I DON'T want to do, which is break thier hearts by saying that its not working out.  Even the guys I have looked at as just one night stands have often kept trying to making it more (including one guy who is still calling me 2 years after the 'deed' to 'chat'...I don't claim that there is an army of woman like me out there looking for sex without love (or even 'like' lol) or even that I am so super amazing woman...just that one should not assume that it is woamn who push for emotional attachment and/or relatioships...

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RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/27/2007 2:51:45 PM   
RumpusParable


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From: NYC now!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElaineSubmits

I don't see any obvious reasons though why there are so few submissives-for-hire. 


Safety issues is the first thing that always comes to mind... while I do enjoy bottoming, I would not work as a pro-sub/bottom because of that angle. 

< Message edited by RumpusParable -- 12/27/2007 2:52:06 PM >


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(in reply to ElaineSubmits)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/27/2007 2:52:24 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLupineNYC
Interestingly enough...in my 'vanilia' life I absolutly DO seek out those kinds of relations...they tend to last maybe a mouth or less than 3 months.   I have found that it is the guys who become attached.  At 1st they are all super excited, thinking they found exactly what they always say they want: the whole relationship without an actually realtionship and they love it...then they get very attached, sometimes falling in love, and I end up doing exactly what I DON'T want to do, which is break thier hearts by saying that its not working out.  Even the guys I have looked at as just one night stands have often kept trying to making it more (including one guy who is still calling me 2 years after the 'deed' to 'chat'...I don't claim that there is an army of woman like me out there looking for sex without love (or even 'like' lol) or even that I am so super amazing woman...just that one should not assume that it is woamn who push for emotional attachment and/or relatioships...


I've had far too many relationships start out with the new partner thinking the whole poly thing sounds really cool and an open relationship will be the awesomest thing ever, only to get extremely butt hurt when it finally hits them that what it means is that I'll be not intimate with not just other women, but with other men, sometimes when the lover is sitting at home all by his lonesome, wishing for a little more attention.  Suddenly it's not glamorous and exciting, feelings get all hurt, expectations are shattered, and everything just blows right up.  And the "I've been thinking about you and I think I'm finally ready to deal with the poly thing" via phone, email and IM, years later, eventually just starts to sound like, "I'm kinda horny and if you're just giving it away, why not give me a little tonight."   Uh huh.  No

(in reply to LadyLupineNYC)
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RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/27/2007 4:06:22 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

Sorry!! 

Oops...I guess that means subfever will be back again....sorry darl!!!


I'm taking my ball, going home, and never coming back...

Waaaaaaahhh!



Hopefully after a CBT session you would be taking both balls home

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/27/2007 8:16:19 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Saaaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia
I serve on a board of directors for a leather charity


What does a leather charity do?



A leather charity does fundraisers to support the leather community.  People in need in our community may apply for loans or grants.  To the best of my knowledge, www.LeatherMagick.org is the only leather-specific charity in existence. 

Actually no, the New England Leather Alliance is a non-prof and supports individuals and projects through grants.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to MsSaskia)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/27/2007 8:21:35 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElaineSubmits

It's interesting that the customers for the "pro dominants" are almost entirely male, as with customers for "sex workers" of all sorts.  

Why is that so interesting, shocking or whathaveyou?  It shouldn't be surprising in the least.

quote:


And why is it that "pro subs" are so rare?

Safety, number one.  Trust, number 2.   Lack of respect for the no-sex barrier, 3.  Most guys who come in to "try out" topping fail at one of the three of these issues.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to ElaineSubmits)
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RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/27/2007 9:33:57 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora
Actually no, the New England Leather Alliance is a non-prof and supports individuals and projects through grants.


Very cool!  Thanks! 

Edit:  Our group's focus is a bit different by supporting individuals in need rather than creating programs, but yes, still serving the community.  Thx again for the info. 

< Message edited by MsSaskia -- 12/27/2007 9:38:35 PM >

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RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/27/2007 9:39:44 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
I agree there are many woman here, not in the forums but on the other side, who see this as an easy way to make money.


*cough*

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1496197/mpage_1/tm.htm


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElaineSubmits

It's interesting that the customers for the "pro dominants" are almost entirely male, as with customers for "sex workers" of all sorts.  


How do you define interesting? Since the beginnings of recorded history it's been known that males value sexual satisfaction more highly than currency, and females value currency more highly than sexual interaction. Personally, i'd argue that it's the only thing keeping Western economies afloat for the past thirty years..F/m is only one more footnote to the greater history.

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RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/28/2007 2:28:20 AM   
Politesub53


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petdave.... i have never made posts knocking genuine proDommes. i admit to finding the profiles just looking for money distasteful, and dont see what that has to doi with the cost of toys.

Two examples of profiles current floating about for ladies in the UK. Read roughly as follows.

" i have joined this site as my friends told me about it and i have lots of bills to pay "

" shopping sub needed, there will be no contcat and no play other than taking me out shopping "

Thankfully there are not too many like this, as you can see they dont show the lifestyle in a good light. Although i admit i admire their straightforward approach.

(in reply to petdave)
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RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/28/2007 5:57:48 AM   
MissVix


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Just wanted to break my silence (never really got involved in the boards before beyond having a flick through) to say thank you for being articulate enough to say what I've wanted to whilst reading through this whole thread!

Having worked, played and had relationships on both sides of the crop I think I've come to see the professional side more as a recreational choice than anything (and in that I mean no offence!) - men (yes, predominantly, not including the randoms!) pay well to be put in a position of their choosing. They can't or won't ask the woman in their life for this, or have and have been declined. So they choose to pay for something they want. Many people buy cars instead of taking a perfectly convenient bus. They've paid for what they want. It's a choice, and I don't see why so many people become enraged that people work within the scene - it's like being angry at the person that manufactures your dungeon furniture!

I'll stop before this turns into a rant...but thanks again for voicing my thoughts, and all the best with everything... x

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RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/28/2007 6:05:48 AM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

petdave.... i have never made posts knocking genuine proDommes. i admit to finding the profiles just looking for money distasteful, and dont see what that has to doi with the cost of toys.


Sorry, i couldn't figure out how to link a particular post in a thread (duh, right in front of me)... Later on the thread derails, and one person (without a lot of practical experience as a Domme) is discussing becoming a pro because just asking for "tribute" usually only gets you crappy gifts

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RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/28/2007 8:54:31 AM   
Politesub53


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No problem petdave, i wasnt sure if my post seemed like i was knocking people. So i just clarified.

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RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/28/2007 1:59:41 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

petdave.... i have never made posts knocking genuine proDommes. i admit to finding the profiles just looking for money distasteful, and dont see what that has to doi with the cost of toys.

Two examples of profiles current floating about for ladies in the UK. Read roughly as follows.

" i have joined this site as my friends told me about it and i have lots of bills to pay "

" shopping sub needed, there will be no contcat and no play other than taking me out shopping "

Thankfully there are not too many like this, as you can see they dont show the lifestyle in a good light. Although i admit i admire their straightforward approach.


Ugh.  I've had offers from people who just want to send me gifts and money, no strings attached, and (maybe because I'm not terribly bright) I always turn them down.  I'm into this because I like interaction and I'm curious about people, and a one-way arrangement like that makes no sense to me, even if I were to benefit from it. 

I definitely don't see the appeal in the 'gimme' domination.   I don't see how it's domination.  I'd be interested in hearing from the people who are on the financial supply side to see why it appeals to them and what they get out of it.   Must be something.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/28/2007 2:08:51 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissVix

Just wanted to break my silence (never really got involved in the boards before beyond having a flick through) to say thank you for being articulate enough to say what I've wanted to whilst reading through this whole thread!

Having worked, played and had relationships on both sides of the crop I think I've come to see the professional side more as a recreational choice than anything (and in that I mean no offence!) - men (yes, predominantly, not including the randoms!) pay well to be put in a position of their choosing. They can't or won't ask the woman in their life for this, or have and have been declined. So they choose to pay for something they want. Many people buy cars instead of taking a perfectly convenient bus. They've paid for what they want. It's a choice, and I don't see why so many people become enraged that people work within the scene - it's like being angry at the person that manufactures your dungeon furniture!

I'll stop before this turns into a rant...but thanks again for voicing my thoughts, and all the best with everything... x



Nice to hear from you!  ; )

Although most of our clients are people who are, as you said, men who can't or won't tell their wives about their interests, or also single men and women who know what they like and don't have a partner to share it with, there's also a segment of my clientele that are already in the scene and pretty experienced.  Some of them have seen me play publicly with my own partners and like my style enough to schedule.  Some buy session time as a treat for their partners, and some are known as dominants in the scene and don't want to deal with the hassle that'd come if people found out they like to switch once or twice a year.  Nothing's as flattering to me as lifestylers in the scene who know what makes someone a good player, can get a good scene for free any time, and come to see me for a professional session anyway. 

And yeah, I don't get the vitriol from the player haters.  The amount of anger that comes through is really odd.  You'd think that if people didn't like something like, say, pony play, they'd just shrug and ignore discussions about it instead of joining in and spitting bile. 

(in reply to MissVix)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/28/2007 3:35:24 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
Hi MsSaskia...... i know some guys are into blackmail scenarios, as well as giving money to complete strangers. i dont really understand the appeal of having no connection either. i have a friend who got an email from a guy she didnt know, offering to buy her an appartment ! Who knows if he was genuine or not.

Some of the messages i get just seem to want cash without any sort of input. So i can understand why some guys get upset with the idea. However i dont see any connection between a proDomme with all the equipment and experience and a woman who just has a paypal account.

(in reply to MsSaskia)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: how many of the pros get called a prostitute? - 12/28/2007 3:48:39 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Hi MsSaskia...... i know some guys are into blackmail scenarios, as well as giving money to complete strangers. i dont really understand the appeal of having no connection either. i have a friend who got an email from a guy she didnt know, offering to buy her an appartment ! Who knows if he was genuine or not.

Some of the messages i get just seem to want cash without any sort of input. So i can understand why some guys get upset with the idea. However i dont see any connection between a proDomme with all the equipment and experience and a woman who just has a paypal account.


If I was going to do something risky enough to land me in jail, it'd be an abduction scene.  At least then I'd get to have some fun, too.  Blackmailing lacks a certain ... everything.  For me, anyway. 

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 120
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