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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/2/2008 5:08:54 PM

ElanSubdued

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Sweetstorm,

quote:

I want someone who has the patience and intelligence to take the time to do something correctly. If I receive an email with terrible spelling, it seems to lack a certain bit of thoroughness that I want my partner to have.

Good Lord. In two sentences, you wrote what took me nine paragraphs. Bravo. :-)

Elan.

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/2/2008 5:32:04 PM

ElanSubdued

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BoiJen,

quote:

I'm gonna say it once and once only... then I'm done with this thread is it has the possibility to irritate me... This is the internet. Welcome and enjoy. On the internet, and in most other parts of your life, the only thing you have to express yourself, in all your depth (or lack thereof), is words. Have the curtesy to spell check and get your grammar straight. That is unless you consciously choose to spell things incorrectly or use slang. And, if you do so choose, be okay with having someone on your ass about it. After all, if you cannot articulate yourself well enough for your audience to understand you... then what's the point? Yes, I know I started a scentence with a conjunction... I'm not ashamed of it.

*smiles* This was a very cute post - typos, misspellings, grammar errors and all. :-)

quote:

Hmmm... common sense has to do with handling situations... not grammar. Umm yeah I said I'd leave the thread alone and I didn't. Blah the addictive nature of arguements.

Addictions shmictions. You write with a certain intelligence, intent, (and dare I say "hotness factor") that negates any errors you make. Oh, and watching you come back to the thread was very human and extremely funny (and I mean this as a compliment). Your mistress is a lucky woman indeed.

Elan.

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/2/2008 5:35:43 PM

ElanSubdued

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quote:

ShaktiSama:
This is to say nothing about the men and women who are turned on specifically by a person who is well-educated, articulate, and a good communicator. I'll plead guilty on all of those counts!

*confesses guilt on all these counts too*

Elan.

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/2/2008 7:00:16 PM

ElanSubdued

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darchChylde,

quote:

Like i said before, the only time grammar is related to one's ability to commit in a relationship is when your dominant or potential dominant places it before you as a condition of your submission to them.

Even still, there are certain skills that (for various reasons beyond their control) a strongly committed person may never be able to possess. I like to think of my preference for partners with reasonable grammar skills as a starting guideline for potential compatibility, not as an absolute. I'll take someone passionate, kind, and honest over pristinely perfect (read: piercingly cold) any day.

quote:

edited to add: There is no corrolary *wink* between the opposing argument and the fact that i have started to put those elementary school teachings to good use.

Like BoiJen who also made me laugh in a good way, this part of your post put a smile on my face. If by "corrolary" you mean deduction or inference, the correct spelling is: corollary. And yes, I know that you probably know this. Given the topic of the thread though, I'm finding the inadvertent typos we're all making quite funny. :-)

Elan.

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/2/2008 8:15:58 PM

MisPandora

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*hands the OP some spaces to go with the sentences, and some cheese to go with the WHINE*

Simple: because we can. Open the door, we'll walk through it.

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/2/2008 8:20:09 PM

MisPandora

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rubberpet
BINGO!!!!! If they aren't willing to put for the simple effort of using spell check, how in the hell are they going to put forth enough effort to maintain a D/s relationship?

Roger that from the Flight Deck. pet, you're cleared for takeoff!!!!!!!!!!

< Message edited by MisPandora -- 1/2/2008 8:45:33 PM >

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/2/2008 8:21:10 PM

laurell3

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There's a difference between having poor typing skills in chat and not taking the time to proofread your own profile or personal emails. One implies the area isn't your strongest point, that I can deal with, the other implies you don't take the time to send a message that has clear and comprehensible meaning and it's not as important to you as it could/should be. I have a much harder time with that.

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/3/2008 12:06:21 AM

NovelApproach

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Hm. Having read everything that's been posted, I'm going to skip most of what I was going to say. It's already been said, and rather eloquently at that. What I will say is this - in addition to everything else, a correspondent that types well is meeting me halfway.

Let me elaborate. I am horribly dyslexic and have to make an effort to put out well-typed blocks of text. Generally, this means re-reading before clicking "send," using the spell-checker built into Firefox, and occasionally editing posts after they've been submitted in a forum. Because I take so much care, I'm rather miffed when someone jots something down and sends it with no thought at all, especially if this is in reply to a private message that I put time and effort into. In addition, bad spelling and grammar play merry hell with my already impaired reading skills. I read almost entirely by shape recognition, and a word spelled badly enough might as well be written in Chinese. Likewise, "L337 5P33K" and IM abbreviations are nearly incomprehensible, and it really upsets me when someone continues to use them when they've been asked to type things out properly.

Communication is the most important factor in any relationship, and when it comes to online relationships, text is the most common means of communication. I do my best to accommodate those who don't speak English well or have learning disabilities by doing things like using Skype or Ventrilo, but if I can't communicate with a person, we can't have a relationship. Its that simple.

Damn. That came out sounding way more pedantic than I meant it to. I'm sorry!

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/3/2008 1:38:02 AM

Driver1961

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He dips His lid to all:

Ditto to all that require a high standard of grammar/English. It is communication, shows correctness in attention to detail and is probably the most engaging method of showing admirable traits via the internet.

Would one wear old clothes (looking like a bum) when first meeting and attempting the best impression? - so why is grammar and the internet any different?

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/3/2008 1:59:16 AM

johntom571

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

If articulation and skill with words and verbal expression is high on someone's list of attractive qualities, then someone who does not have that particular quality is probably out of luck. Some women prefer redheads; others prefer English majors. It isn't usually productive to tell someone who likes redheads to give a brunette a chance, if that's a hardwired preference.

I'm not sure if those with such a hardwired preference (ORLY?) realize that everyone is illiterate in one foreign language or another, or that spell-checkers are nor infallible, nor built into website input forms like this one.

That being said, I suppose a good first impression goes a long way.

JT

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/3/2008 5:14:19 AM

orfunboi

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i would say mainly because your profile or post is the only way people have to form a first opinion. If your profile or post is so poorly written, that i have to go back and re-read it a few times to understand it, then i am not going to waste my time. i expect typos and occasionally misspelled words, that is normal, and i do it all the time. To me that is different than some of the posts i have tried to read, where the spelling is terrible and the punctuation is just missing. If you want people to listen to your ideas, then you have to make an effort to present them in a readable post. One of my favorite examples is from a profile i spotted.....

" Im sitting here Reading these profiles, I have to ask myself how dumb or these slave/submissive. Whom just start with a dom within the first year have ad open looking for another submissive to join."

Now i can't tell her how "dumb or these slave/submissive" really are, but i might suggest she proofs her own profile before calling anyone else dumb.

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/3/2008 7:14:37 AM

YesMistressIrish

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BruisedHick
Because grammar is so easy to fix. If they can't fix that on their own, or make up for it with a spell check, then what effort will this person put in when they have a commitment?

My point was that you only notice such things because of the online environment. So you therefore have to ask yourself if you are missing some really good attributes that people have due to such short sightedness in relation to only seeing writing errors? Would you seriously in real life pass up a female who was attractive, loyal, funny i.e. the qualities we all look for as human beings because you found out she is illiterate?

No sentence should start with a conjunction.

What? Sorry FC: I am not understanding what you said.
And: I like to type in a way that reflects how I communicate real time.

I also appreciate that in forums. DarkChylde writes like that.
I love words, their origins, their ability to convey a concept. I enjoy looking things up to learn and have a fun time learning a new word every day.
It bothers me that my understanding of precise grammer tools isn't up to snuff. I must have been flirting in class when the teachers were covering it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Each of the highlighted words in the following sentences is a subordinating conjunction:

After she had learned to drive, Alice felt more independent.
The subordinating conjunction "after" introduces the dependent clause "After she had learned to drive."

If the paperwork arrives on time, your cheque will be mailed on Tuesday.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Irish

< Message edited by YesMistressIrish -- 1/3/2008 7:26:12 AM >

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/3/2008 7:51:00 AM

YesMistressIrish

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oumae

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLegs

Well that solves the question of why I get so many 1 line emails. The mean Dommes have instilled a fear of spelling & grammar errors.

Lol. That did make me laugh. Thanks.

I have a friend with severe dyslexia, I'm glad I didn't miss out on the friendship by ignoring them over some spelling mistakes. Spell check doesn't solve it for all as they may not be able to tell the difference between similar spellings. To me the content or context is more important than picking up on some errors.

Oumae

Dyslexia hardly ever bothers me...unless someone does it constantly throughout every sentence. I have to clean up my typing along the way because I switch letters. My brain says left, my fingers types right.

< Message edited by YesMistressIrish -- 1/3/2008 7:53:11 AM >

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/3/2008 11:47:02 AM

msebonybelle

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it is a major turn off for me to read poorly written emails messages, especially initial ones. now, as for my lowercase typing - that's a matter of style...like e.e. cummings. i certainly don't think people spell incorrectly to show off their ignorance or intelligence...LOL...at least i hope they don't.

i'm a former english teacher and i do expect a man who says he's intelligent to demonstrate that through his written text as well as his verbal conversations with me. however, i do find that when people are in a rush they tend to have misspelled words and that's understandable. but if your sentences make absolutely no sense to me case in point : "me hopes you likes my pickture and me hopes we can conversations sometime your moist respectfully kind harded lady." i'm going to worry about your level of intelligence and refer you to the nearest literacy council in your area.

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/3/2008 12:44:02 PM

littlesarbonn

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While I think a certain amount of emphasis on proper English usage is not a bad idea, I think sometimes the Internet language nazis can get out of hand, and that's ALWAYS been the case. An example is what happens to me a lot: I'll be writing a lot of back and forth commentary, and because of the speed I type, I'll make an error every now and then. Not something that shows I'm not intelligent, but something along the lines of "hte" instead of "the" because that happens a lot when you're speeding through the typing process and trying to get something out in words more than you are trying to look like the happy spelling kid.

But on the other side, I can see how when someone is trying to find if the person on the other end is intelligent, a post or an email is all that person has to rely upon. Then it can be very important. If I was sending my first letter out to a woman I wanted to attract, I would double check that letter over and over again until I was sure that I didn't leave something stupid in there, like any reference to my parole officer. Okay, bad example. But you get the point. If this is the first time she's going to have a chance to see something from me, I'd much rather she read my words and understand my intent than deliver her something that causes her to focus on the message rather than the message wording.

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/3/2008 1:01:59 PM

ElanSubdued

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Littlesarbonn,

quote:

If this is the first time she's going to have a chance to see something from me, I'd much rather she read my words and understand my intent than deliver her something that causes her to focus on the message rather than the message wording.

Outside of my personal attraction and fetish for those with wordsmithing skills, you've nicely summarized why a reasonable degree of language correctness is important to me. When a message is so mangled by grammar and spelling errors that deciphering takes more time than understanding, communication grinds to a halt. Being able to communicate with someone ranks very highly amongst the things I like sharing with a partner. In fact, I'd go so far as to say this is essential. It's difficult for any kind or relationship or romance to build when communicating becomes a chore.

Elan.

< Message edited by ElanSubdued -- 1/3/2008 1:07:59 PM >

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/3/2008 2:28:41 PM

Pallandozi

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How intelligent or profound is the writer of the following?

"Good sense is the person, while being distributed equally, all things,; Rather than some he himself abundantly, the those uniformity has already owned that usually so, you think of that the measurement where this quality which is not desired is larger was offered whether because of each one it is most difficult to be satisfied with other things at everything. In order to prove the fact that it does and everything belief just judgement to be called good sense or the reason, with the character whose securely truth power of distinction from the mistake which is it is equal with all people in this, it is grasped, on the other hand it should, what is and is misunderstood does not seem truth,; Therefore and our thoughts which parallel to the method thing we who do not happen from the part which is favored to the share whose us variety of opinion the reason is larger than other things differing are done, if the same intended our note is not locked, this year the oak exclusively from this. Active heart sufficiently it is not because it is owned for the sake of; The main necessary applies that just should, is. Because highest excellences is possible, as for splendid heart in the same way you open largest abnormally; And it runs, but if those always maintain at the straight road, perhaps, slowly still much very more largely it progresses, from those which abandon that it travels the people.

Because your own itself, as for me never fantasized my heart because there is more complete all respects than universalness those without being; Being opposite, as for me that frequently clearly and others umbrella and distinctness or memory of the imagination sufficiently and with preparation I other several, promptitude of equal thought, or desired thing a certain thing which. And these other things, as for me perfection of heart the other quality which contributes you have not known; Us the person constitutes, and the animal us, my that perfection should find with individual each one and is to believe that in order for the sake of in regard to the reason or feeling makes feeling and distinguishes being thing independently to be,; And with between accident only difference of a larger and less grasp you say, and with this point to which the philosopher adopts the form of the individual of the same kind which is not or the common opinion between character."

It has poor grammar. The understanding of the meaning of words is iffy. The paragraphs are long.

If there is deep thought behind it, can you tell? Is it even worth your time?

Pallando

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/3/2008 2:39:19 PM

Pallandozi

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And yet the writer of those two paragraphs was Rene Descartes, in his discourse on the method of rightly conducting the reason and seeking truth in the sciences. He originally wrote them in French. To emulate profound thought by someone for whom English is not their native language, I translated them into English using babelfish.

Here are those two paragraphs again, translated by a professional translator.

"Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for
every one thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even
who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually
desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess. And in
this it is not likely that all are mistaken the conviction is rather to be
held as testifying that the power of judging aright and of distinguishing
truth from error, which is properly what is called good sense or reason,
is by nature equal in all men; and that the diversity of our opinions,
consequently, does not arise from some being endowed with a larger share
of reason than others, but solely from this, that we conduct our thoughts
along different ways, and do not fix our attention on the same objects.
For to be possessed of a vigorous mind is not enough; the prime requisite
is rightly to apply it. The greatest minds, as they are capable of the
highest excellences, are open likewise to the greatest aberrations; and
those who travel very slowly may yet make far greater progress, provided
they keep always to the straight road, than those who, while they run,
forsake it.

For myself, I have never fancied my mind to be in any respect more perfect
than those of the generality; on the contrary, I have often wished that I
were equal to some others in promptitude of thought, or in clearness and
distinctness of imagination, or in fullness and readiness of memory. And
besides these, I know of no other qualities that contribute to the
perfection of the mind; for as to the reason or sense, inasmuch as it is
that alone which constitutes us men, and distinguishes us from the brutes,
I am disposed to believe that it is to be found complete in each
individual; and on this point to adopt the common opinion of philosophers,
who say that the difference of greater and less holds only among the
accidents, and not among the forms or natures of individuals of the same
species."

More impressive, yes? And yet, it is the same thought, the same person behind the words. Only the ease with which the thought can be extracted from the words has changed.

Pallando

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/3/2008 5:27:55 PM

ElanSubdued

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Pallandozi,

quote:

And yet the writer of those two paragraphs was Rene Descartes, in his discourse on the method of rightly conducting the reason and seeking truth in the sciences. He originally wrote them in French. To emulate profound thought by someone for whom English is not their native language, I translated them into English using babelfish.

What you've essentially demonstrated is how the external presentation makes a huge difference even though the guts are the same. The external presentation can radically obfuscate or clarify the meaning which is why it so important to present ideas in an orderly, agreed upon, well understood fashion. To use a crass, perhaps inappropriate commercial comparison, does the Apple iPod actually play MP3 files better than any other MP3 player? Not really. The guts of this technology are the same in almost all MP3 players. However, Apple put a slick interface on it's product which makes the iPod easy to use, colorful, and therefore attractive to consumers. This applies equally well to the topic of this thread. If you make it difficult for people to communicate and play with you, they will find other, more readily accessible models. :-)

Elan.

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RE: Why Dommes judge people based on grammar? - 1/3/2008 6:03:52 PM

SlaveBlutarsky

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quote:

ORIGINAL: falccon
I feel that some of the subs should be given a chance to impress and show some of their other fine qualities and strengths.

I haven't read many of the responses to this thread, but this is answer to your question.

You are given a chance to show your qualities to a Domme in the way that you communicate with her and the time that you take to correct your grammar, structure and communications to her. By writing a sloppy, poorly spelled and punctuated note to a potential Domme, you are showing her that she may not be important enough to proofread for.Most Dommes I've met don't need someone to do calculus for them, even though they may appreciate that, but they do need to communicate with their subs.

As a sub looking for a needle in a haystack, I don't respond to profiles of FemDoms who are unable to spell or take the time to write a decent profile. To me it seems if they aren't smart enough or don't care enough to make a good impression, they probably aren't the person for me. Either they feel that because they are FemDoms they are beyond caring about such trivial details or they just aren't bright.

For me, putting my best foot forward to make a great first impression is common sense, especially when the ratio of Dommes to subs is so small. I constantly get unsolicited emails from Dommes complimenting me on my profile, and tend to get a fairly high response rate from people I initiate conversation with because I try and be well thought out and communicate properly. Like I said, common sense to me.

It's the same reason every morning I get up and shower, put on deoderant, brush my hair and do a lot of other things. It may seem pointless or supericial to some to take pride in your appearance, but I know the woman I am looking for will appreciate that in me and like the fact that she is with someone who is not only smart, funny and submissive, but also strong, well groomed and someone who she can be proud to be seen with.

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