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Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 11:29:03 AM

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LadyHibiscus’ thread on feminism has inspired this (deliberately offensively titled) thread. After a just a few years spent in Western society a female individual will have encountered many occurrences of gossip and slander and bullying from her peers. Most of the women on the boards will know exactly what I’m talking about.

Personal experience tells me that many have been raised to consider other women as a potential enemy, to be slammed through the force of the group. As my mother was what would be considered to be a feminist I was sent into the world thinking, rather naively, that we were sisters, that there was a de facto solidarity – before personal affinities came into play. Whilst I found that many women believed in this I also discovered, to my detriment, that many didn’t.

Women enforce these values themselves, seemingly in order to compete for the attention of men; but in the process, they destroy their self-belief and credibility in the eyes of men, and of each other.

Is it biological fulfillment which fuels female to female jealousy ("I'll get his sperm first, you bitch.")? Is it in the interests of the patriarchy that women waste their time bickering ("While women gossip and slash each other, we have all the power.")? Is it women's responsibiliy, as they raise them, that men tend to form allegiances within their interest group, while women make personal enemies of each other?

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 2/5/2008 11:30:22 AM >

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 11:30:47 AM

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have you ever read the bitch manifesto? it's a good read and i'm pretty sure you can still get it online. the argument is that it is socially created.

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 11:32:32 AM

faerytattoodgirl

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i consider other women as prey..... FEAR ME FOR I MIGHT HIT ON YOU!!!

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 11:36:07 AM

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Yes, a long time ago. If I remember correctly, it claimed back the word 'bitch' as a term of empowerement (not unlike the Black power movement reclaiming the term 'nigger').

I'm going to plunge back into it. Thanks.

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 11:51:27 AM

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Ironically, I just got this conversation myself about a week ago. I've two neighbor ladies I get along with well, both in late 40's. (I'm a quasi-adopted son to them). Anyhoo, they pretty much well point blank said "Women do not trust other women". Note though, they have some fairly odd, spiritual ideas as to why relationships and genders work.

I don't know if this some genetic to gender thing or societal one. But it basically boils down to 2 paradigms.

Men compete, backstab, and tear each other down to put themselves at the head of the pack to attract a women.
Women compete, backstab, and tear each other down in order to keep that man to themselves.

Where the competition between men generally ends is where women pick it up at.

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 11:53:27 AM

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Personally I think it stems from immaturity and lack of example from mothers/teachers/etc. I've even seen a great deal of encouragement from men in this behaviour.

When I really give it some serious thought, I seem most of it as being very passive agressive in a way. Rather than taking the high ground, clearly defining our needs and expectations without any emotional drama, we find it easier to play the old, learned, games. In past generations women had to maintain a certain demeanor, we were raised to "behave like little ladies". I think that mindset contributed to less than admirable ways of coping with issues.

I think we can all logically see how archaic that thought process, is but there is still some underlying sense of "how we should be" that is more subconscious and controlling of our behaviour than we would like to admit. I think many women then, overcompensate, often out of some unrealized guilt. That's where I see alot of the "I am woman hear me roar" type of stuff that just makes me sit back and think....."well alrighty then!" and upsets women that don't want to roar and men that want to roar louder.

It is my fervid hope that in one or two more generations most of that will have been overtaken by a new conscious and subconscious mindset. That to be strong, and still a woman, we don't have to go down those familiar yet negative paths.

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 12:00:57 PM

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I think this is just how the female is wired. It is or way of protection and just like anything else when not checked or self controlled often goes too far to bad behavior and the results from that behavior.

I am a product of two distinct cultures both Western and Eastern (Asian). I see this protection trait in both cultures equally with just at most differences in how it manifests itself.

If you ever watched Merkat Manor on the Animal Planet it shows a great example. These animals are extremely social and family driven animals but at the same time the dominant female will without even thinking drive off a sister or even a daughter out of her group. This is often a death sentence if they even pose somewhat a threat with the order of things.

To me though there is a big difference from understanding and dealing with these feelings by using our brain and heart then let them lash out unchecked or unfiltered.

< Message edited by toservez -- 2/5/2008 12:02:51 PM >

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 12:01:05 PM

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You are completely correct that bitchiness stems from immaturity. After all, nobody forces people to behave stupidly; and unless we are technically morons, it's within everybody's power to question our education and to change.

Do you think that it's comfortable and comforting for some women to act as if they were in the playground mocking the girl with the weird hair (I speak from experience

)?

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 12:01:57 PM

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um.......not sure if it can be couched as a technical issue.

Ron

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 12:05:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Is it biological fulfillment which fuels female to female jealousy ("I'll get his sperm first, you bitch.")?

Praise the Lust and pass the sperm!

Jealousy in any form, it seems to me, springs from insecurity. I'm not sure, however, that jealousy is the root of all bitchiness.

Sister tee

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 12:05:37 PM

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So, you believe that women are wired to be bitchy because we are threats to each other? I know little anthropology, so I can't speak for other cultures. I'll take your word for it.

I completely agree with you that (if you are correct, and I dispute that we are naturally wired to bitch) it's within our power to check on these behaviours and to modify them.

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 12:06:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You are completely correct that bitchiness stems from immaturity. After all, nobody forces people to behave stupidly; and unless we are technically morons, it's within everybody's power to question our education and to change.

Do you think that it's comfortable and comforting for some women to act as if they were in the playground mocking the girl with the weird hair (I speak from experience )?

Very much so! I was the odd girl out, standing by herself being mocked. Then, when I was old enough, and strong enough, I subconciously retaliated in kind when I had the opportunity. How terrible of me! How very terrible to attempt to do to others, simply because I did not like them for some reason, to do to them what was done to me! To want to be that hurtful. I think it is a struggle always, a lazy way to deal with our own insecurities and fears.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 12:08:04 PM

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Babe In Total Control of Herself.
I believe its socialisation yes, competition feeds it in school from an early age, media feeds it, we are force fed "ideal womanhood" and self esteem issues, wether its sexual images or everyday images, let alone the growing up with siblings fighting for more attention from the parental unit.
Weve fought for rights, (as a gender) but we really get torn between what was/is expected of us, our own feelings and those of the people that surround us.
Im pretty easy, nah very easy going, but push my buttons the wrong way and I will become attila the hun with tits, altho its not very often that happens. Im not your stereotypical "bitchdomme" cos if Im angry(bitchy), you definitely dont want to see some kind of weapon in my hand, Im not agressive nor confrontational, I tend to walk away from situations like that, I like to say its self control. grins

Regarding the socialised part of it, its only been a hundred years(give or take) since suffrage started, the pendulum will go back and forth for a few more decades, hopefully less, until then we gotta do what we can to be happy with ourselves as equal, functioning human beings.
I'll get there eventually:)

Lucy

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 12:08:04 PM

RCdc

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I believe it is a bit of both. Nurture and birth.
I have to add, that I don't think cliques are necessarily a bad thing - that cliques are only the group of friends that are labelled as such when a person doesn't 'fit' into them. Otherwise they are a circle of friends if one does.

Immaturity does play a factor, so does control - or rather a lack of it. You rarely see dominant women bitching in groups, if they bitch - it's law and what they think as an individual - not like the petty squabbling in a harem where a pack mentality prevails.

the.dark.

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 12:10:59 PM

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I am one that does not believe it is how the female is wired. I firmly believe it is a nurture rather than nature.

In reference to Meerkat Manor, yes, I can see how we will wish to fight for what is ours or to protect......BUT.....it is nurture (or really a lack of proper nurturing) that has taught us the "bitchy" way to go about it.

I can protect and fight without stooping to the nasty behaviour I see as being bitchy. It would just involve a more straightforward approach than we have been "nurtured" into believing is unbecoming a woman.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 12:11:58 PM

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*sigh* here's my question....How come we never see threads about men being jackasses or bastards?? i mean we all know plenty and yet they are content to live in their jackassism or bastardism. Why is it? Is it possibly that they have a higher level of self acceptance and don't have to spend all day looking around at the faults of everyone else?
i don't know....

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 12:12:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fluffyswitch

have you ever read the bitch manifesto? it's a good read and i'm pretty sure you can still get it online. the argument is that it is socially created.

You haven't come right out and blamed men then.

One can argue just about everything is socially created, especially when it's a trait that is seen as negative and can't be pinned directly on men.

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 12:12:17 PM

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There could be worse things to have happen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

i consider other women as prey..... FEAR ME FOR I MIGHT HIT ON YOU!!!

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 12:12:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Praise the Lust and pass the sperm!

Lust can be satisfied without sperm, thankfully :-) .

quote:

Jealousy in any form, it seems to me, springs from insecurity. I'm not sure, however, that jealousy is the root of all bitchiness.

Absolutely - but why do some of us feel threatened by younger and more beautiful models? Is it that we fear they'll take away our (check what's appropriate: man/woman/companion/spouse)? And if so, why aren't men equally jealous of each other (because let's face it, they aren't; blokes are far more self-confident, on average)?

I have been envious of young and beautiful women, but not jealous, I don't think. I never sought to destroy what could be described as 'potential competition'. If anything... I admire them :-) .

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RE: Are women born to be bitches? - 2/5/2008 12:12:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

*sigh* here's my question....How come we never see threads about men being jackasses or bastards?? i mean we all know plenty and yet they are content to live in their jackassism or bastardism. Why is it? Is it possibly that they have a higher level of self acceptance and don't have to spend all day looking around at the faults of everyone else?
i don't know....

the site is rife with the motherfuckers.

Ron

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