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RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/7/2008 4:09:36 PM

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quote:

You can use hard bargaining (Do it or leave forever) this assumes you are sure their desire to stay is stronger than their desire not to comply.

Agreed, ultimatums can backfire. Reminds me of the time when I gave my (now adult) son the choice of cleaning his room or being grounded. He chose to be grounded and I had to accept that. That taught me to be much more careful to give him straight forward expectations and remove all doubt about the outcome!

quote:

You can inspire them to counter their desire not to comply with their desire to make you happy. (Or some other instilled value)

This sort of made my head spin, but I think we are saying the same thing.(??) I admit that sometimes I have an internal struggle against an order but my desire to please and the fact that I have agreed to submit to his authority makes the result a sure thing.

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RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/7/2008 4:11:28 PM

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Most male doms are stronger than any girl he would encounter and could "force her" to do anything. Whether or not she stays afterward is a whole nother topic.

BadOne

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RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/7/2008 4:20:47 PM

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While reading the various replies and deciding on mine I read catize which is my answer. When I got to the bottom and saw "No good deed goes unpunished." I think we were separated at birth. If you have to inflict permanent harm, a broken arm is permanent harm" to punish or get submission you are not a Dominate. You are a wannabe bully and sully the name Dom. To inflict that type injury by accident is bad enough but accidents happen.

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RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/7/2008 4:25:15 PM

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I think that the broken arm thing was just an example of how much control that the Domly one has, not that he would actually do it, which in itself i think mitigates the idea. Of course all Doms can say of slaves that they will do anything, but that anything is within the realms of reality and the knowledge that he wouldnt want to break someones arm then makes it far easier to say "yeah no limits"

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RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/7/2008 5:45:23 PM

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Even though I gave LordShadow (I felt justifiably) a hard time, I just want to say that I believe he answered most questions and comments respectfully and with class. (Whether I agree with his answers or not.)
This has been an interesting thread; thanks to the OP, and all who participated.

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RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/7/2008 6:24:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordShadow

Life is rewards and consequences based on the choices we make. Some are willing to accept greater consequences than others, and that is for each Man to determine for himself.

Sorry what consequences?

The consequences for lordarmbreaker here could easily be arrest after the ER identifies the arm break as the result of abuse. Seizure of implements in his house/stone/cave that could be identified as the source of other bruises on her would also come into court. And the ultimate consequence? Being made to learn what it is to be submissive to his cellmate.

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RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/7/2008 7:24:21 PM

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*chuckles*
Actually it goes to accepting the consequences of anything we do. Everything has rewards and consequences, and we must be willing to accept both.
What i have posted here is simply a response that varies outside what most consider to be the norm of what is acceptable in the lifestyle in which we live. But, you also have to look deeper into what has been posted, not only by myself but by some of the others as well.
This would be the depth to which aaminah and I live this lifestyle. We all live this lifestyle to varying degrees, and each feels the reward of this. The deeper you go the greater the reward in the satisfaction you receive from what you do, but it is not without consequences.
For us the depth of our trust, loyalty, and devotion to each other is greater as is the consequences.
Men, what do you think it would feel like to know that a girl trusted you so much and was so devoted to you that she would present her throat to you so that you could cut it?
Girls, can you imagine what it would be like to be so devoted and trusting of a Man to do that, to feel the depth of that submission? To be able to display that level of vulnerability freely and without fear?
Aaminah knew well ahead of time what was expected of her and where I wanted to go with her, where I would take us, where I am still taking us. I was training her online and phone nearly a year before she begged collar. I refused the first time because I did not believe she truly understood what I expected of her.
Yes, she is property and is treated as such. But, she is also a most prized possession. She is spirited, strong willed at times, loving, and irreplaceable.

And to answer your question Jeff, no a slave has never walked away from my Home...women in the past have left me, as most if not all of us have experienced, but since entering into the lifestyle nearly 8 years ago, I have never had a slave walk away. Of the three I have owned in the last eight years, the first passed away in a motorcycle accident in 2003, the second was released from the Home, involuntarily, after I finally realized it wasn't going to go where I wanted it to (after two years), the third is aaminah who has been with me a total of 17 months, 10 of that in collar, and who is progressing nicely.

Its all about depth folks, trust, devotion, loyalty....we all make our own choices as to how far we want to go. the rewards are great, but so are the consequences.

Oh by the way, I am not "Gorean"...lol. I was born in california in 1968 and have never been to Gor, nor do I believe it is an actual place. It is a setting in a series of fantasy books that some, myself included, find a philosophical view point to guide us in our lives.

I have enjoyed the discussion for the most part and I wish you ALL most well.

< Message edited by LordShadow -- 3/7/2008 7:35:26 PM >

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RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/7/2008 7:44:27 PM

SinergyNstrumpet

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Your lifestyle has no relation to mine and my Daddy's. We are not Gorean, and yes there is a difference between how Goreans live and how many D/s couples live. Your posts highlight those difference very well I might add

~strumpet~

(in reply to LordShadow)

RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/7/2008 8:08:45 PM

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greetings Masters/Doms
greetings Mistress/Dommes
greetings slaves/subs,

this has been quite interesting.........when Master picked me up from work He was very excited, proceeding to tell me about the discussion that was taking place here. i would like to say thank you to everyone who has participated in this discussion, it gives Master great pleasure to be involved in such discussions, for this i am grateful. it can be difficult for people to understand where we are coming from but when i see an honest effort i always appreciate it. agreement is not always a factor in intelligent discussion but being honest and open is and i witnessed this here in this thread.
my response to the op is.....take time to get to know the one that you are submitting to, be it as sub or slave. that was the beginning of me as i know me now....my submission to Master is so complete that sometimes it even amazes me. He has completely enslaved me, mind body and spirit and yet has depleted me in no way. most of the time i don't even know how it happened other that enabling me to feel a sense of freedom and innocence that i thought had long passed me by. in that gift of freedom and innocence from Him i am most complete in serving Him in any way He desires.
and that's all i got to say about that...........namaste..........aaminah

(in reply to SinergyNstrumpet)

RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/7/2008 8:17:40 PM

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With regards to LordShadow and his beautiful aaminah you know nothing of which you speak, DesFIP. You assume abuse, instead of seeing devotion. Having served in his House and been protected and guided by him when nobody else could be bothered, if this girl was in a different place in her life, she would gladly serve him and his House for as long as he would allow her to do so and without her regretting a day. His word is worth more than all the money in the bank as is his honor and respect for others as he has the same respect for himself and will settle for nothing less. So yes, should he order his property to present her throat for cutting or her arm for breaking, she would do so without hesitation and thank him for the pleasure of doing so. That is true submission. That is true ownership.

As for limits, the only people this girl has ever met with limits are those too afraid to let go and just be, subs, and subs topping from the bottom. The very rare few she has met without limits, those are 100% slave, 100% owned and embracing everything about themselves, wrapping it up and giving it freely to their Master. Such freedom, such room to spread her wings and fly and just be who she was born to be.

respectfully,
kat

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/7/2008 9:03:01 PM

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OP: In most developed countries slavery is illegal. Keeping that in mind I would assume this is a sub/slave who has agreed to let you have the ability to order her/him around.

These are rights they granted you and in the end they have more power then you do. If you insist on pressing the issue to it logical conclusion they will simply take those rights away from you and leave.

~~conquer4love~~

(in reply to daddysprop247)

RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/7/2008 9:10:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SinergyNstrumpet

Your lifestyle has no relation to mine and my Daddy's. We are not Gorean, and yes there is a difference between how Goreans live and how many D/s couples live. Your posts highlight those difference very well I might add

With respect, any three year old can break his toys if he wants to. There's nothing particularly Gorean about that, or about not growing out of it.

Kirata

(in reply to SinergyNstrumpet)

RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/7/2008 9:15:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: SinergyNstrumpet

Your lifestyle has no relation to mine and my Daddy's. We are not Gorean, and yes there is a difference between how Goreans live and how many D/s couples live. Your posts highlight those difference very well I might add

With respect, any three year old can break his toys if he wants to. There's nothing particularly Gorean about that, or about not growing out of it.

Kirata

I think that has something to do with Stewardship.......

As opposed to what another....poster is saying, which seems to be more about *posturing*.

I'd have to agree with Kirata on this one.

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RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/7/2008 11:17:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: abbeysomething

quote:

ORIGINAL: SinergyNstrumpet

What do you mean by "making a sub do something"? Are you talking about forced sex play? Or something truly forced as in the sub not consenting? Are you speaking of emotional things, such as forcing a sub to quit a job or not talk to her family by threatening to end the relationship? I am just curious as to how you mean it.

perhaps i do need to clarify :) (thank you vm) i was in chat with a Dom, who kept saying it does not matter what the situation was, if he owned a slave/sub/ he could Make her do Anything... gut told me he is a bit unrealistic...... for myself, i know i tend to not react to "pushy behavior" Thanks again!

Please bare with me on the fourms, still learning my way around :)

IMNSHO, you need to know your hard limits and be sure they are made clear and will be respected by your Dom. If a Dom I was chatting with bragged that he could make me do anything, even within my hard limits, I'd pretty much be done with him.

(in reply to abbeysomething)

RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/8/2008 1:02:26 AM

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I am confused about the original question now. It was about forcing some one against their will, ..OUTSIDE her submission?
Did I misread that?

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RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/8/2008 3:40:53 AM

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sassykat I enjoi the way you call ppl clueless and the end of your post

respectfully??? HUH

BadOne

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RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/8/2008 4:10:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

I am confused about the original question now. It was about forcing some one against their will, ..OUTSIDE her submission?
Did I misread that?

No thats right, and then Lordshadow dicussed how his girl has no limits to her submission.

One thing I love about this site is when someone has a debate and then has to call all those who agree with them to come and post.

xsassykatx I would just like to point out that anything that says true submission with no hint of irony is in fact quite offensive, you are claiming that you are being more true to yourself than others are? how can you possibly know that without living their life? having their feelings or indeed being them. We can only be true to ourself in whatever capacity that is. Being true to myself would mean that i would never put myself in a position that risked serious harm, but then I dont know anyone who would ask to cut my throat or break my arm, therefore I stand by my initial post about realms of reality.

< Message edited by colouredin -- 3/8/2008 4:14:18 AM >

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RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/8/2008 4:11:43 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xsassykatx

should he order his property to present her throat for cutting or her arm for breaking, she would do so without hesitation and thank him for the pleasure of doing so. That is true submission. That is true ownership.

As for limits, the only people this girl has ever met with limits are those too afraid to let go and just be, subs, and subs topping from the bottom. The very rare few she has met without limits, those are 100% slave, 100% owned and embracing everything about themselves, wrapping it up and giving it freely to their Master.

You come to post in defense of a dominant and talk about people not knowing what they are talking about. Than you try to tell others what "true submission/ownership" is, then go furter and suggest that those with limits are "subs too afraid to let go". Do you get these truths from a crystal ball? How can you speak for others? If what you say works for you, fine, but don't speak for others and assume you know what is in their minds and hearts just like you dodn't think it was appropriate for Des to do so it isn't for you either. Do you not see the double standard in what you are saying?

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RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/8/2008 4:24:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

No thats right, and then Lordshadow dicussed how his girl has no limits to her submission.

One thing I love about this site is when someone has a debate and then has to call all those who agree with them to come and post.

xsassykatx I would just like to point out that anything that says true submission with no hint of irony is in fact quite offensive, you are claiming that you are being more true to yourself than others are? how can you possibly know that without living their life? having their feelings or indeed being them. We can only be true to ourself in whatever capacity that is. Being true to myself would mean that i would never put myself in a position that risked serious harm, but then I dont know anyone who would ask to cut my throat or break my arm, therefore I stand by my initial post about realms of reality.

I already worried we all lost common sense...

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 3/8/2008 4:25:21 AM >

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RE: "Making" a sub/slave do something... - 3/8/2008 5:16:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xsassykatx

So yes, should he order his property to present her throat for cutting or her arm for breaking, she would do so without hesitation and thank him for the pleasure of doing so. That is true submission. That is true ownership.

Okey-dokey then. Please explain exactly how a TRUE submissive thanks her Master for cutting her throat while her larynx is filling with blood and only blood bubbles and death gargles are coming out? Does she write a proper thank you note with the blood then? my Master feels my TRUE submission is when i do NOT find pleasure in doing something but do it anyway. We must be fakes.

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