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RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 4:17:59 PM

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
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Never mind. I'm bowing out of the discussion.

Cali

< Message edited by CalifChick -- 3/27/2008 4:19:30 PM >

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AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 4:19:43 PM

Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real_Trouble

I find this entire letter misses the point; however, I agree personal responsibility is sorely lacking with regard to the mother.

At what point was it a good idea to have eight children while illegally in a foreign country and barely able to support them?

Her personal decisions reek of idiocy; while perhaps my view of the world is somewhat cutthroat (in the same way that perhaps the ocean is a bit damp), this is for the best. The children will be better off with role models who exhibit more stable behavior and more personal responsibility, and the mother is getting what she deserved for her idiotic behavior.

As to the question of illegal aliens itself, that is complicated to say the least... I don't wish to spark an all-encompassing debate, so I will simply state that our system as currently constituted encourages this kind of total fucking nonsense.

From a factual basis - the kids are US citizens, and should be treated as such. Which means placed in foster care, given an opportunity to attend schools, and then given a chance to be functioning members of society. If one does not like this turn of fate, look into changing the laws determining who is a citizen; you cannot punish the kids further (than having a totally batshit mother to begin with and growing up in poverty) by changing the rules post hoc.

Last, to those commenting on abusing the weak and helpless, explain to me how leaving eight children in a subsistence level home, with a clearly irresponsible mother who cannot care for them, and thus almost certainly dooming them to a life of poverty and neglect, is the humane thing to do? The humane thing is to deport the mother, give the children to foster families, and let them learn the lesson that life is a cold, harsh thing. Let them learn that your own dumb fucking decisions often have a major impact on others, and that others can cause great harm to you in the same way. Perhaps they will learn the lessons their mother did not.

Harsh? Perhaps, but I don't claim to be an overly nice person.

being impoverished does not equal being neglected by any stretch of the imagination though.

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Real_Trouble)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 4:21:22 PM

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

Popeye i ask this sincerely, not to start an argument......what would have been the "right thing" she could have done years ago?

I would wager she could have done a few things. Apply for citizenship for one, return to mexico for another...keep her legs shut if she didn't believe or couldn't afford birth control, or any combination of the three.

A law-abiding "citizen" who learns they are, by virtue of circumstance 'outside' the law, should seek to abide by said law as soon as possible. She did not.

wow-but all the other legal citizens who suck mightily from the govt tit-thats ok with you huh?

these people are CONTENT with nothing. it is all they have ever had-they find strength in family. they do not collect a welfare check and wear designer clothes. they can make 5 meals out of what most folks would use in one. they will live in a one bedroom apt and sleep head to toe in one bed to have a roof that they manage to pay for with their meager earnings.

illegal aliens piss me off too, but i see them doing more good for the community, with their work ethic, than i see the many legal citizens who choose to do nothing but figure out new ways to sit at home and do nothing.

i dont have the solution, but screaming what someone could have done, when they had no skills to do it-im sure thats not the answer.

and without some great minds deciding this will not go away on its own, and coming up with a solution, were fucking doomed in so many ways.

Seeks, we don't need anymore "great minds" we have laws.
I don't like them all either but I have to obey them.
The answer is to enforce the laws.
If you're in this country illegally you leave.
If this lady were from Ireland I'd say "GTFO!"
These people try to turn their problems into our problems and unfortunatly some people listen to them.
Even if they're "nice" people I say "GTFO!"
I don't care how "nice" they are.

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(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 4:21:48 PM

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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I know this hits you personally and it is an emotional issue. But what do you suggest we do with ALL of the illegal people in the US who have kids? Not just this one that strikes home for you but the entire group of illegals no matter where they are from. Do you think it would be right and moral to say that this woman can stay but the others must go?Where is the line drawn?

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~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 4:23:42 PM

Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

I know this hits you personally and it is an emotional issue. But what do you suggest we do with ALL of the illegal people in the US who have kids? Not just this one that strikes home for you but the entire group of illegals no matter where they are from. Do you think it would be right and moral to say that this woman can stay but the others must go?Where is the line drawn?

if i had the answer to that id be kickin some obama and clinton ass in the primaries bout right now

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to camille65)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 4:26:16 PM

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 4:27:30 PM

Posts: 1447
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

wow-but all the other legal citizens who suck mightily from the govt tit-thats ok with you huh?

Not remotely. I think they should all get off their asses and work. And many do. And when they do, they get taxed, so they pay INto the same system they benefit from.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

illegal aliens piss me off too, but i see them doing more good for the community, with their work ethic, than i see the many legal citizens who choose to do nothing but figure out new ways to sit at home and do nothing.

I see them working, but what stands out to me more is when I hear the (many) stories of someone getting slammed into at an intersection by an illegal alien who had no insurance, or I hear about border-town hospitals literally forced into bankruptcy, or the illegal alien who drives drunk and kills a pair of young girls and gets sent right back to mexico (maybe) only to return shortly thereafter.....or the schools who are forcing (not offering) but forcing ALL kids to learn and speak spanish to accomodate people who shouldn't be here in the first place. There are COUNTLESS languages spoken in this world, but in many places here, you can't get certain jobs if you don't speak English AND spanish. And why? Because of the company's desire to cater to an influx of people who "really want to be here" so badly they can't be bothered to learn the language. There was a story on NBC here recently of the Dallas PD going to PUERTO RICO to recruit spanish speaking officers because they needed more so badly. WTF?

Now, am I saying that citizens don't drive drunk and kill? Or drive without insurance? No. Clearly not. Of course they do. However, when they do, and are caught....something HAPPENS to them. They don't just get slapped on the wrist and told to go on their merry way. I once heard a tale of a guy who was rear-ended by an illegal alien (heard from him so this is first-hand info....to me at least, I guess it's second-hand for you) anyway.... The cops show up and the guy doesn't speak english, so they speak spanish. Upon learning he had no insurance, they did NOTHING. The guy who was hit about had a fit over it and they told HIM "Sir, you need to go on your way, now."

Seriously....what the HELL does an illegal alien have to do to get some sort of consequence for these types of actions? And in addition to that, I'm supposed to welcome the rest here and say "oh I'm sorry for whatever your story is, clearly you snuck in because you're such a nice, law-abiding person, feel free to stay here with no consequence, by all means."

Sorry, I can't do that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

i dont have the solution, but screaming what someone could have done, when they had no skills to do it-im sure thats not the answer.

and without some great minds deciding this will not go away on its own, and coming up with a solution, were fucking doomed in so many ways.

No lie. I will tell you this....I haven't got a freakin' clue what to do. Even if I were the president, I'd look at the TV cameras, and after making my trademarked "who farted?" expression I'd tell the rest of the country that I had no freakin' idea what to do about the problem, then I'd get up and offer the chair to anyone who had a good idea. (Of course thinking like that probably won't get me elected in the first place, so I don't have to worry.)

I have an idea of what *not* to do, though. And that's to just say "well, you're here, clearly you're a good person, here's your citizenship."

No.....there needs to be a path to citizenship.....but there needs to be a penalty for breaking the law too. You can't just send them all back, but you can't just give them carte blanch to come over with no consquences.

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 4:29:32 PM

Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

No.....there needs to be a path to citizenship.....but there needs to be a penalty for breaking the law too. You can't just send them all back, but you can't just give them carte blanch to come over with no consquences.

i agree with that 100%

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Smith117)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 4:32:36 PM

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

No.....there needs to be a path to citizenship.....but there needs to be a penalty for breaking the law too. You can't just send them all back, but you can't just give them carte blanch to come over with no consquences.

i agree with that 100%

Not just a penalty but one that is applied. We already have laws and the problem of illegal immigrants not having to answer for the 'illegal' part of it. That is why I say that while I am sorry for the emotional pain her children will feel it is her responsibility and she bears the burden of having broke the law for so very long.

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~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 4:32:59 PM

Posts: 1447
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

No.....there needs to be a path to citizenship.....but there needs to be a penalty for breaking the law too. You can't just send them all back, but you can't just give them carte blanch to come over with no consquences.

i agree with that 100%

On a side note, I would like to point something out. Things weren't always peachy here. "Great Depression" ring a bell? You didn't have millions of Americans fleeing to other countries for a "better life." They stayed here and fought to make this place what it should be. Mass-fleeings do not fix the problems in the country of origin, they only export those problems elsewhere. We have enough problems of our own.

Maybe some of the ones sneaking across should fight for their beloved country. Make it what it should be and then you won't have scores of people seeking a "better life" elsewhere.

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 4:49:02 PM

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Joined: 2/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne
being impoverished does not equal being neglected by any stretch of the imagination though.

No, I based that on her having enough time to run around and have eight children, the fact that she needed community and church support to raise them, and the general standards that her behavior have demonstrated so far.

Poor and neglected do not go hand in hand necessarily, but in this case, I suggest it is likely they do.

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RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 4:56:57 PM

Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real_Trouble

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne
being impoverished does not equal being neglected by any stretch of the imagination though.

No, I based that on her having enough time to run around and have eight children, the fact that she needed community and church support to raise them, and the general standards that her behavior have demonstrated so far.

Poor and neglected do not go hand in hand necessarily, but in this case, I suggest it is likely they do.

again i will say, all the help given to her was offered freely, not because she needed it, but because of how hard she worked to not need help.

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Real_Trouble)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 5:01:50 PM

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Joined: 8/3/2006
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During the depression people went all over to find work just to feed they're kids. They'd of gone anywhere they thought would help them and they did.

imigrants aren't our problem. Cheap asian imports are, no low end factory work is our problem, corporate greed is our problem. You wouldn't even notice them if our economy wasn't so weak.

(in reply to Smith117)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 5:04:24 PM

Posts: 471
Joined: 2/25/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne
again i will say, all the help given to her was offered freely, not because she needed it, but because of how hard she worked to not need help.

I'm not disputing that help was offered her freely, but that doesn't mean she should have had eight children in such deplorable conditions that people felt compelled to help them!

There is no point at which this is possibly a good or sane decision for her to be making, nor at which this could be a good situation for the children. This is the bottom line.

I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut if she "worked hard" or not; she made a bunch of seriously irresponsible and damaging decisions for her children. Working really hard but really stupid is not justification for her abject lack of personal responsibility.

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Send lawyers, guns, and money.

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 5:06:08 PM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

again i will say, all the help given to her was offered freely, not because she needed it, but because of how hard she worked to not need help.

So. . .

Let me get this correct.

Single parent.
Eight kids.
Minimum wage job (maid at a hotel does not pay a lot more).
No skills.
Could not afford to apply for citizenship.
Is incapable of returning to country of origin because she would be alone with no family to support her.

BUT SHE DID NOT NEED THE COMMUNITY SUPPORT TO HELP PROVIDE FOR HER CHILDREN.

Hmmm. . .

Carry the seven. . . divide by pi. . .

Nope, that does not add up.

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(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 5:13:17 PM

Posts: 4880
Joined: 5/10/2006
From: Moosecrotch, Va
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne
again i will say, all the help given to her was offered freely, not because she needed it, but because of how hard she worked to not need help.

The REAL help she should have been given was someone somewhere working with her to get her citizenship stuff in order. This could have all been avoided.

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The next time you think I give a fuck, remember the 3 F's... Unless you are Feeding me, Financing me, or Fucking me, I don't give a fuck!!

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10 Miles of Hot Chocolate Lovin'.

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 5:13:23 PM

Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

again i will say, all the help given to her was offered freely, not because she needed it, but because of how hard she worked to not need help.

So. . .

Let me get this correct.

Single parent.
Eight kids.
Minimum wage job (maid at a hotel does not pay a lot more).
No skills.
Could not afford to apply for citizenship.
Is incapable of returning to country of origin because she would be alone with no family to support her.

BUT SHE DID NOT NEED THE COMMUNITY SUPPORT TO HELP PROVIDE FOR HER CHILDREN.

Hmmm. . .

Carry the seven. . . divide by pi. . .

Nope, that does not add up.

it adds up if you realize that they think having a one or 2 bedroom for that size family is a wonderful thing for them. you can feed that family on tortillas and beans for next to nothing.

im not defending her for having that many children......it was a stupid as hell move. i am defending her in the way that she has done the best she could with what she had-which from the beginning was nothing. and i can not see how sending her back and leaving these kids fractured from each other is the best way to fix it.

believe me i think about good grief stop having damn kids already. i could blame the catholic church for all the kids if i wanted to. or her pure ignorance. but the fact is thos kids are here and were in a loving nurturing environment and that has been taken from them and they dont know why.

its a no winner fucking mess. but i still cant help loving the latino families i deal with daily, and seeing how much they are appreciative to be here. im sure many are illegal, but we are forbidden to ask about that because of laws in this country. we just want to educate them and feed them and love them.

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Aylee)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 5:15:15 PM

Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KyttynTheMynx

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne
again i will say, all the help given to her was offered freely, not because she needed it, but because of how hard she worked to not need help.

The REAL help she should have been given was someone somewhere working with her to get her citizenship stuff in order. This could have all been avoided.

that was actually in the beginning stages when this crap happened. hopefully it will show she was finally trying to do things right. time will tell.

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to KyttynTheMynx)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 5:18:53 PM

Posts: 4880
Joined: 5/10/2006
From: Moosecrotch, Va
Status: offline

But ya know Seeks, sometimes trying to do the right thing a little too late gets you a whole lotta nothin'.

_____________________________

Hibbie's Hottie

The next time you think I give a fuck, remember the 3 F's... Unless you are Feeding me, Financing me, or Fucking me, I don't give a fuck!!

"Kyttyn: The Other White Meat!" - DRH

10 Miles of Hot Chocolate Lovin'.

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)

RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 5:20:09 PM

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KyttynTheMynx

The REAL help she should have been given was someone somewhere working with her to get her citizenship stuff in order. This could have all been avoided.

That's a very good point.

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(in reply to KyttynTheMynx)

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