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RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 5:20:46 PM   
Real_Trouble


Posts: 471
Joined: 2/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

it adds up if you realize that they think having a one or 2 bedroom for that size family is a wonderful thing for them.  you can feed that family on tortillas and beans for next to nothing.


Wait, so you are advocating extreme poverty, cramped living conditions, and unhealthy diets as a family building exercise?

quote:

im not defending her for having that many children......it was a stupid as hell move.  i am defending her in the way that she has done the best she could with what she had-which from the beginning was nothing.  and i can not see how sending her back and leaving these kids fractured from each other is the best way to fix it.


Your lack of imagination is not our problem, to be totally blunt with you.  I can see how sending her back and giving these kids to families who at least might not be totally fucking despondent, having parents who might not model extremely irresponsible behavior, and have something to aspire to other than a minimum wage job is the right thing to do.

Yes, the short term sucks, but in the long term it is a much better option for the kids.  They are suffering for the sins of the mother, but that's not their fault.  However, sparing someone short term emotional pain is not a good reason to leave them in that kind of situation.

quote:

believe me i think about good grief stop having damn kids already.  i could blame the catholic church for all the kids if i wanted to.  or her pure ignorance.  but the fact is thos kids are here and were in a loving nurturing environment and that has been taken from them and they dont know why.


Listen, if you think that is a loving and nurturing environment, this is where we disagree.  When I see that kind of thing, I think the parent is despicable and evil.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions; I don't care if she tells them she loves them if the are living as you said.  

This is like saying Stalin wouldn't have been such a bad guy if he just told a few million Russians he really loved them a lot while denying them economic opportunity, starving them to death or murdering them, and destroying the educational system of his country.

quote:

its a no winner fucking mess.  but i still cant help loving the latino families i deal with daily, and seeing how much they are appreciative to be here.  im sure many are illegal, but we are forbidden to ask about that because of laws in this country.  we just want to educate them and feed them and love them.


This is not a latino issue, this is a "really dumb human" issue.  There are plenty of US nationals I feel the same way about, only we don't have the luxury of deporting them to spare the kids their idiocy.  I also want these kids to be educated, fed, and loved.

Preferably by someone capable of doing so responsibly.

_____________________________

Send lawyers, guns, and money.

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 5:20:46 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		yep......hell sometimes doing the right thing as soon as you figure out what it is gets ya a whole lotta nuthin too-lol

sighs

nite folks-4 am comes early

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to KyttynTheMynx)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 5:24:09 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		this then im off to bed i swear....

Real.....im not advocating poverty, but im from the south and its rampant.  my folks came from dirt poor roots, and even though i thought we were rich when i was a kid, we were poor as hell.  right now id consider my self one step above poor white trash, but im content!  and i know that eeking out a living paycheck to paycheck is not the worst fate one can suffer.

paris...brittany....heath....pick ya rich person thats miserable.....

there are times when love really is all you need.

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Real_Trouble)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 5:32:21 PM   
Real_Trouble


Posts: 471
Joined: 2/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

Real.....im not advocating poverty, but im from the south and its rampant.  my folks came from dirt poor roots, and even though i thought we were rich when i was a kid, we were poor as hell.  right now id consider my self one step above poor white trash, but im content!  and i know that eeking out a living paycheck to paycheck is not the worst fate one can suffer.

paris...brittany....heath....pick ya rich person thats miserable.....

there are times when love really is all you need.


I object to your cherry picking here.

On average, middle class and upper class families do better for their children than poor ones.  There are definitely exceptions, but pointing at a few idiots who are rich doesn't prove anything other than that they are occasionally idiots everywhere.  Seriously, look at any credible study; poor and under-educated children, on average, do disproportionately poorly in life compared to middle class or upper class and adequately educated children.  

One of the main reasons for remaining poor and impoverished, in fact, is having too many children and having to bust ass to support them in the short term whild disadvantaging them, so that the cycle can then repeat!

You are advocating what I find to be the weak and easy way out.  This is the best opportunity society will have to break a cycle of poverty in this family, as well as give the children a chance to see functional and reasonable behavior from foster parents, rather than the irresponsible and foolish behavior of their mother.  

So, in conclusion, I disagree with you and I will not be swayed by an appeal to emotion.  Sending her back is both what she deserves from a legal standpoint and is the best option for the children.

_____________________________

Send lawyers, guns, and money.

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 5:37:43 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

She can easily apply to the Mexican Consulate for Mexican citizenship for her children, which will allow her to take her children with her to Mexico, and with citizenship, they can resume their lives there and attend school.

Cali



I wasn't aware of that...nicely put.

I can't imagine the US govt. arguing to not return her children to her under these conditions.

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 5:40:19 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

believe me i think about good grief stop having damn kids already.  i could blame the catholic church for all the kids if i wanted to.  or her pure ignorance.  but the fact is thos kids are here and were in a loving nurturing environment and that has been taken from them and they dont know why. 



Yes, the Catholic Church DOES forbid birth control.  It also forbids sex outside of marriage.  Period.  End of story.  The Catholic Church is NOT at fault.  She is for picking and choosing which "rules" that she is going to follow.

A loving and nurturing environment is not one where mom is bringing home different men for sex.  Men that feel NO responsibility for the children that they help to create. 

How do these males serve as role-models?  They are definatly not good ones.  For her male or female children. 

A loving and nurturing environment is NOT one in which the mom (or parent) ignores the law. 

A loving and nurturing environment is NOT one in which the mom (or parent) leaves the children unattended or farmed out so that she can go to work and then to pick up more irresponsible men to bring home. 



_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 6:05:53 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you for posting this story, Seeks.
 
IMO, no purpose is served by separating the mother from her children.  Either have them
all deported to Mexico or let her apply for amesty to remain in the USA and raise them. 

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 7:44:13 PM   
domahpet


Posts: 1505
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Santa Rosa
Status: offline 		does anyone remember when back in the day a substancial chunck of this country was Mexico?
isnt entitlement a wonderful thing?`

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1730373/mpage_3/tm.htm

_____________________________

Zeedaddys
~DJ domahpet~
*Love is giving someone the power to break your heart, but trusting them not to*

*crystal*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLI12uN6k5k

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 7:59:10 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Firstly, it's not an "Immigration problem" it's an Illegal Alien problem.
Secondly there are no illegal immigrants, "immigrants" are here legally.
And what's the problem with her going back to her native country?
So her parents fucked up so the U.S. Taxpayers are supposed to pay the point?
Boo Hoo!

popeye:
As usual your courtesy and compassion are overwhelming. 
Now instead of a taxpayer we have 8 welfare recipients.  Just gotta love your logic.
thompson

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 8:08:27 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domahpet

does anyone remember when back in the day a substancial chunck of this country was Mexico?
isnt entitlement a wonderful thing?`

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1730373/mpage_3/tm.htm


I remember something about that in the history books, right before reading how they lost the war and thus, the land. Terrible thing, war. Sometimes you lose more than you thought when you began fighting.

Just because they lost that land in the war, doesn't mean they need to try to subtly take it back.

(in reply to domahpet)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 8:23:16 PM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		I gotta say, some of y'all seem like a cold hearted lot. The issue, in this particular case, imo, isn't so much about illegal immigration as it is about separating a mother from her children and them from her..

Having said that, if all illegal immigrants were deported, our agriculture, construction, meat packing, manufacturing , hotel and restaurant industries would collapse. Who's gonna take those low wage shit jobs, you ? Then our economy would be even worse off than it is now, it might well even collapse. So, forget that, it ain't gonna happen.

Finally, the politicians love to divide us by distracting us with emotional, knee jerk issues like illegal immigration ( they are easy to hate, aren't they?), gay marriage, women's right to control their own bodies, etc. , while they continue to fuck us in the ass with no lube on issues like the war, corporate corruption ( as in looting pensions, cooking books, etc.), and election reform  while their masters and buddies (Halliburton, big oil, U.S. corporation moving there operations offshore, paying no U.S. taxes  while reapring the benefits of remaining U.S. corps. often in the form of subsidies, etc.) laugh all the way to the banks they own.

Stack all that up and weigh it against the case, which is the only thing,imo,the OP is talking about. Separating one mother from her 8 kids.


_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to domahpet)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 8:25:34 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

It didn't say anywhere that she'd be "prevented" from taking them back to Mexico with her.
By the same token her children might just as easily sponsor her back into this country...perfectly legal.

As far as I'm concerned they're not U.S. Citizens.
Sorry popeye...the law says that they are.  You are always shouting about your demand that people follow the law...does it not apply to you also?



< Message edited by thompsonx -- 3/27/2008 8:27:35 PM >

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 8:25:59 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Thank you, thank you  .

_____________________________



(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 8:33:07 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domahpet

does anyone remember when back in the day a substancial chunck of this country was Mexico?
isnt entitlement a wonderful thing?`

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1730373/mpage_3/tm.htm

I'm not quite that old, but I've read about it. Plus I've been to Mexico about 30 times. One of my favorite hotels is just down the street/road (Avenida) from El Cerro. I'll bet not one Gringo in 100 knows what famous event occured there.

(in reply to domahpet)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 8:36:51 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: domahpet

does anyone remember when back in the day a substancial chunck of this country was Mexico?
isnt entitlement a wonderful thing?`

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1730373/mpage_3/tm.htm


I remember something about that in the history books, right before reading how they lost the war and thus, the land. Terrible thing, war. Sometimes you lose more than you thought when you began fighting.

Just because they lost that land in the war, doesn't mean they need to try to subtly take it back.



Smith:
Did the history book you were reading mention that we did offer to buy it from them?
They told us no. 
So like a fucking thug we took it at the point of a gun.
Did you happen to notice in that history book why we did not take their whole country?
thompson





(in reply to Smith117)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: those damn illegals - 3/27/2008 11:03:55 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

I gotta say, some of y'all seem like a cold hearted lot. The issue, in this particular case, imo, isn't so much about illegal immigration as it is about separating a mother from her children and them from her..

Having said that, if all illegal immigrants were deported, our agriculture, construction, meat packing, manufacturing , hotel and restaurant industries would collapse. Who's gonna take those low wage shit jobs, you ? Then our economy would be even worse off than it is now, it might well even collapse. So, forget that, it ain't gonna happen.

Finally, the politicians love to divide us by distracting us with emotional, knee jerk issues like illegal immigration ( they are easy to hate, aren't they?), gay marriage, women's right to control their own bodies, etc. , while they continue to fuck us in the ass with no lube on issues like the war, corporate corruption ( as in looting pensions, cooking books, etc.), and election reform  while their masters and buddies (Halliburton, big oil, U.S. corporation moving there operations offshore, paying no U.S. taxes  while reapring the benefits of remaining U.S. corps. often in the form of subsidies, etc.) laugh all the way to the banks they own.

Stack all that up and weigh it against the case, which is the only thing,imo,the OP is talking about. Separating one mother from her 8 kids.



Cjan, ok, let's just suspend all the laws.
I got a whole bunch of people I want to shoot.
The politicians aren't "distracting" us, they're just not doing their jobs.
It's called dereliction of duty.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: those damn illegals - 3/28/2008 1:43:38 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real_Trouble


You are advocating what I find to be the weak and easy way out.  This is the best opportunity society will have to break a cycle of poverty in this family, as well as give the children a chance to see functional and reasonable behavior from foster parents, rather than the irresponsible and foolish behavior of their mother.  

So, in conclusion, I disagree with you and I will not be swayed by an appeal to emotion.  Sending her back is both what she deserves from a legal standpoint and is the best option for the children.


you men and your logical thinking!  you can disagree with me, and thats ok.  part of ME disagrees with me.  but somewhere in the middle of my save then cause there is love and happiness, and your send that chick back because she shoulda known better......there has to be a middle ground that is a solution.

got any ideas on that?

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Real_Trouble)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: those damn illegals - 3/28/2008 1:46:06 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

believe me i think about good grief stop having damn kids already.  i could blame the catholic church for all the kids if i wanted to.  or her pure ignorance.  but the fact is thos kids are here and were in a loving nurturing environment and that has been taken from them and they dont know why. 



Yes, the Catholic Church DOES forbid birth control.  It also forbids sex outside of marriage.  Period.  End of story.  The Catholic Church is NOT at fault.  She is for picking and choosing which "rules" that she is going to follow.

A loving and nurturing environment is not one where mom is bringing home different men for sex.  Men that feel NO responsibility for the children that they help to create. 

How do these males serve as role-models?  They are definatly not good ones.  For her male or female children. 

A loving and nurturing environment is NOT one in which the mom (or parent) ignores the law. 

A loving and nurturing environment is NOT one in which the mom (or parent) leaves the children unattended or farmed out so that she can go to work and then to pick up more irresponsible men to bring home. 




there are 2 daddies for the 8 children.    these kids were not the results of one night stands.  they were the results of relationships.  the older 3 have one father and the younger 5 have one.

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: those damn illegals - 3/28/2008 1:48:12 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Thank you, thank you  .


what she said cjan

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: those damn illegals - 3/28/2008 3:54:17 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Yes, the Catholic Church DOES forbid birth control.  It also forbids sex outside of marriage.  Period.  End of story.  The Catholic Church is NOT at fault.  She is for picking and choosing which "rules" that she is going to follow.

A loving and nurturing environment is not one where mom is bringing home different men for sex.  Men that feel NO responsibility for the children that they help to create. 

How do these males serve as role-models?  They are definatly not good ones.  For her male or female children. 

A loving and nurturing environment is NOT one in which the mom (or parent) ignores the law. 

A loving and nurturing environment is NOT one in which the mom (or parent) leaves the children unattended or farmed out so that she can go to work and then to pick up more irresponsible men to bring home. 




there are 2 daddies for the 8 children.    these kids were not the results of one night stands.  they were the results of relationships.  the older 3 have one father and the younger 5 have one.


Okay. . .

Only two men.  (I doubt this, but whatever.)

Those men are WHERE?

She is still bringing men that are poor role-models into her home with children.

She willfully ignores both US law and Church law. 

Rules and laws just do not apply to this woman?

Now, if those men are also illegal aliens, then there is someone in Mexico that can help her out. 

She claims to be a "victim" because of the choice HER parents made in bringing her here illegally.  Now she cries "victim" again because of the choices she has made regarding HER life HER citizenship status and HER children. 

At what point does she stop being the perpetual child that needs protection and her thinking done for her and becomes a responsible adult? 

If she cannot take responsibility for herself and her choices, how can she be fit to be responsible for eight children? 

Yes, foster care is the RIGHT thing to do for these kids. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 120
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