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"Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 10:43:45 AM

Quin

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This is a statement that has always bugged me. I see it all the time, online, and it drives me up the wall. Being submissive is no more a gift that being passive, aggressive, or optomistic. It's a personality trait. It's who you are. Being dominant is not a gift...it's who I am. I can't choose not to be dominant, any more than homosexuals can choose to be straight. How is, for example, giving over everything you are to the control of another in a TPE a gift? A gift is something you give with no expectation of anything, other than a "thank you" in return. When you submit to someone else, don't you expect something in return? Don't you expect him to spank/flog/singletail you in return and get some kind of pleasure out of it? Don't you expect him to care for you in some way?
Does this comment bug anyone else? What are your thoughts on this phrase?

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It's my job as a sadist to completely screw that up."
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RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 10:45:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Quin
What are your thoughts on this phrase?

I have better things to worry about, if you dont like it have nothing to do with those who use it.

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(in reply to Quin)

RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 10:49:52 AM

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RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 11:06:54 AM

eepsy

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it's the kinda thing.. if you don't like the phrase, don't use it. And that's that..

no?

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RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 11:24:25 AM

MistressSybella

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I think it was invented to give submissives a measure of respect, to try to make the balance between owner and slave more reciprocol. It just means that although they are submissive, they don't HAVE to submit to you.

I'm with you on what you said and agree but, I understand their side as well.

Miss 'Bella
ServeMeWell

(in reply to Quin)

RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 11:54:13 AM

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Ah yes, the "It's monday so let's rehash the 'gift of submission' yet AGAIN" thread.

And on a Monday too!

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RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 12:10:49 PM

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I give my gift of optimism and snark all the time, hey, it's a gift that I have.

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RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 12:24:13 PM

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quote:

What are your thoughts on this phrase?

it doesn't annoy or bug this slave that others view their submission as a personality trait, a gift, a curse, a blessing, a defect, a flaw, a mental condition that they need therapy for, something that has to be inspired by the right person or however else they perceive it to be.

last time this slave checked, she wasn't in charge of defining everyone's reality FOR them---it's theirs to define for themselves.

(in reply to Quin)

RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 12:25:05 PM

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RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 1:01:06 PM

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Greetings, Quin,
Granted, it may be annoying to see the phrase nonstop, in whatever venue.
However, My "take" on it has always been that despite the fact there is, as you say, a reciprocation leading to some form of reward via verbal expression or gesture; there is associated with the submission a purely mental element in which the submissive views their submitting to the Dominant as a gift, in as much as from the submissive's perspective she is handing herself over to Him. That transition carries the mental symbology of giving/gifting and thus is the expression verbally formed, semantically inaccurate though it be.
Viewed thus, the matter becomes one of perspective and perception, set against and attempting to overcome the limitations of expression through language.
Due to the foregoing, I have never quibbled at hearing or seeing the expression 'gift of submission' simply because doing so enters into the whole perception/expression-limitations of language debate, which is at mildest an exhausting process.
Blessed Be, Quin, ^Uyraell^.

_____________________________

^Uyraell^
"Honi-Soit Qui Mal'Y Pense":"Ill unto He who ill of it thinks".
EdIII Rex Britaniam AD1348.
"Wan Schon ist Besser schon":"Be it Done, Best be it done well".
Attr. to F Barbarossa Rex Germania AD 1123-1190.
"^Aligaes: Amore vel Ira^"

(in reply to Quin)

RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 1:08:02 PM

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Dude, chill. So you're not fluffy or romantic, we get it. But that doesn't negate the fact that there are a lot of romantics in this world who do view it in these terms, and they are compatible with each other.

They don't have to be compatible with you, they can turn you down because you don't like this. The same way they can turn you down because you like needles and they don't.

You know what, The Man views me in this terms, even five years in. We're mushy and soppy and romantic as all get out. And it works great for us.

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RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 1:10:58 PM

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I used to belong to a church that defined the story of the man giving his sons talents as an analogy of God giving talents to humans, or gifts as they used the words interchangeably.

This church felt that personalities were part of the talents, or gifts that are given to individuals. A woman who was a great mother had a gift, a man who wanted to love and protect his family above all else had a gift, a girl who is always optimistic, a boy who thinks of others before himself, artists, singers, great thinkers, all had gifts and this church felt that to not give away, to not utilize these gifts to bring happiness to others was wasting those talents or gifts.

So a person is predesposed to being submissive or dominant, and rather then hiding that aspect of them, they wish to share with a partner, they in essence are giving away their gift, to be shared and enjoyed.

Why is that a bad thing?

_____________________________

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to Uyraell)

RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 2:08:39 PM

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Greetings, DesFIP, OmegaG,
In no way did I intend to convey that I felt the expression or action to be a "bad" thing.
My post focussed on the psychology and linguistics aspects of the expression, rather than the romantic. That is not to be taken to mean that I am non-romantic, however. One of My joys in life is to write poetry, and few would disagree that a Poet must have within them some sense of romance; else writing verse would be near impossible to achieve.
I simply viewed Quin's post from an academic perspective, and I should have made that fact clear within My post, albeit I felt it was implicit.
OmegaG, I tend to agree that whatever a person shares of themself is a "gifting" and certainly do not view that as "bad" in the general sense, with the usual caveat of not doing harm or causing ill thereby being taken as read.
DesFIP, regarding the romantic aspects of the Lifestyle; well, `tis enough to say that those closest to Me regard Me as romantic, though not "showy" about it. Years ago My personality was defined as romantic, and I've since seen little evidence within Myself to contradict that definition: I just happen to limit when and where I let that aspect of self express itself. I'd not think I was very different from many males in doing so.
Withal, if I gave the wrong impression, doing so was not My intent.
Blessed Be, both, ^Uyraell^.

_____________________________

^Uyraell^
"Honi-Soit Qui Mal'Y Pense":"Ill unto He who ill of it thinks".
EdIII Rex Britaniam AD1348.
"Wan Schon ist Besser schon":"Be it Done, Best be it done well".
Attr. to F Barbarossa Rex Germania AD 1123-1190.
"^Aligaes: Amore vel Ira^"

(in reply to OmegaG)

RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 2:48:04 PM

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I hard limit it-since it tends to come attached to "the gift of whining." I hate package deals.

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RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 4:20:43 PM

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Sounds a bit pretentious to me - but then i am not a "flowery" speaker.

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RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 4:57:11 PM

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You apparently have never been on the receaving end of such a rare and valuable gift.
It is a lot more then a "scene" its a lifestyle. It is the decision of the giver to give control of "self" to another. The trust level is so great that their very life and well being is now my responsibility.

It is beyond any cost.

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See nic "Kinkypupper" also as "slvseeker" As I cannot reply to any posts or log into collarchat under that name I had to create this profile.

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RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 4:58:19 PM

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I don't so much see myself as some amazing gift... but if the dominant doesn't appreciate it?? That relationship is doomed.

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RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 6:14:52 PM

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I may have a submissive nature under certain circumstances, but in a BDSM relationship I do consider it that I am giving the gift of my submission to someone who has earned my trust.

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RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 6:16:26 PM

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Please enjoy my gift of links:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1180353/mpage_1/tm.htm
"Submission is a gift"

http://www.collarchat.com/m_725554/mpage_2/key_gift/tm.htm#725692
It ain't a gift

http://www.collarchat.com/m_539780/mpage_1/key_gift/tm.htm#539948
The gift of submission

http://www.collarchat.com/m_417971/mpage_2/key_gift/tm.htm#418195
submission is a gift!!!???

http://www.collarchat.com/m_285542/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#285542
If submission is a 'gift.' what's dominance?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_199872/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#199872
The Gift you give to yourself

http://www.collarchat.com/m_195087/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#195087
A gift???

http://www.collarchat.com/m_137582/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#137582
The Domly Gift

http://www.collarchat.com/m_135667/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#135667
Why do so many view submission as a gift?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_128811/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#128811
Do you consider your submission to someone a gift?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_118674/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#118674
Gift or not...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_109097/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#109097
The "gift" of submission

http://www.collarchat.com/m_26446/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#26446
On the gift of submission

http://www.collarchat.com/m_17487/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#17487
my thoughts on the "gift" of submission

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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(in reply to Quin)

RE: "Gift" of submission? - 6/16/2008 7:22:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Uyraell

Greetings, DesFIP, OmegaG,
In no way did I intend to convey that I felt the expression or action to be a "bad" thing.
My post focussed on the psychology and linguistics aspects of the expression, rather than the romantic. That is not to be taken to mean that I am non-romantic, however. One of My joys in life is to write poetry, and few would disagree that a Poet must have within them some sense of romance; else writing verse would be near impossible to achieve.
I simply viewed Quin's post from an academic perspective, and I should have made that fact clear within My post, albeit I felt it was implicit.
OmegaG, I tend to agree that whatever a person shares of themself is a "gifting" and certainly do not view that as "bad" in the general sense, with the usual caveat of not doing harm or causing ill thereby being taken as read.
DesFIP, regarding the romantic aspects of the Lifestyle; well, `tis enough to say that those closest to Me regard Me as romantic, though not "showy" about it. Years ago My personality was defined as romantic, and I've since seen little evidence within Myself to contradict that definition: I just happen to limit when and where I let that aspect of self express itself. I'd not think I was very different from many males in doing so.
Withal, if I gave the wrong impression, doing so was not My intent.
Blessed Be, both, ^Uyraell^.

Can't speak for Omega, but I didn't mean to aim my post at you. At the op rather. I keep forgetting that when you use fast reply the site claims you're responding to the person who responded just before you.

I'm not sure, however, that claiming that this one word can or should be used strictly in a dictionary sense is a valid argument. Certainly slave, as used here is not a strict dictionary usage. Last I looked, there's no section in the classifieds for new or used slaves.

Psychologically? As I said, he feels that my presence in his life is a special gift, and one he values highly. His feelings therefore do show his psychological viewpoint and thus the usage is psychologically valid.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Uyraell)

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