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RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/11/2005 10:03:01 AM

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Joined: 6/4/2004
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I have a love/hate relationship with people who say they have "no limits". On one hand, I love the idea of showing this person within 5 minutes, that they truly have some limits. On the other hand, I hate reading about all the abuse stories that are spawned from these no limit encounters.

As many have said, we all have limits in one form or another, even if we consider ourselves to be no limit players. Smilezz no longer has a safeword and she trusts my judgement, trusts that I will do her no harm and trusts that I will notice if she is in distress and take appropriate action.

If playing with someone I don't know well, yes...I want to know what their limits are. It's not a challenge to my authority or my dominance..it just makes the scene more enjoyable for all people involved.

When you run into someone who says that "true subs" don't have limits...just smile politely, thank them for their time, and walk away.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to subspaceinMD)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/11/2005 1:35:00 PM

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Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Belladonna82

When Master first found me...i was a crazy submissive who was emotionaly screwed up....i made everything a limit...Through Master guideness and control i lost 90% of my limits....now my limits Match Masters for the most part...i have a few that i am slowly releasing but have let go completely.....Its a Master job to make sure the submissive/slave is comfortable enough to let go of those vanilla limits that our lifes in the past have placed there........limits=emotional unsure and not very trusting of whom u serve.
You can believe something to be taboo...or emotionaly hurtful but if the Master knows of a way to help you trust his judgement and not your own....things go smoothly....TRUST,.....ITS ALL A SLAVE/SUBMISSIVE NEEDS....without we are nothing...with it...life is peachy keen

If you saying " that a slave/submissive only needs to trust his/her Master/Dominant Judgement" and does not need anything else... then I must say I can't agree with this in any fashion.

Firstly,. a slave/submissive must beable to trust their own Judgement of the person they choose to acknowledge as Master/Dominant. If they can't trust there own judgement of choice to the one they serve... They will never get that peachy keen life and give their complete trust to another... for ulitmately our trust is dependent as much on the behaviors of others as it is on our confidence in our judgement of others.

Secondly, as IronBear stated... trust is Earned and Learned..... but it starts with ourselves. We learn to trust our own judgments and choices from the consequences of them. We earn them by the efforts we must put forward to gain them.

Thirdly, this is a not a M/s or D/s thing.... this just basic relationship building with ourselves and others that exist in any intimate relationship.

Lastly, "limits=emotional unsure and not very trusting of whom u serve." I have not met a single person that doesn't have limits of one sort or another... "Limits being anything that restricts our behavior/choices for whatever reason" but yet I have met many that are very emotional sure of themself and the one that they serve, who do have a limit here or there. mmmm now lets not forget Dominants that .... well don't really serve anyone.... mmmmmmm but yet they do have limits. Not sure how they fall into your mathematical equation of limits..... Seems to me you are allowing your view of self and your situation to project into your judgement of life and of others. Life and people are much more complex than that and not everyone was/is emotional screwed up and are/was saved/enlightened by their Master/Dominant of the new world of limitless trust into the divine judgement of their "One"

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Belladonna82)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/11/2005 1:42:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

i have this vision of how i'd find my One. First, superficial attraction. Next, values. Then respect -- from real life experiences. Then love. Then that ultimate trust.

So far no man has made it through all the hoops, but i have hope.

candystripper

mmmm *looks at the size of the hoops* mmmmmmm I think I need to loose a few pounds !

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to candystripper)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/11/2005 3:46:38 PM

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Joined: 10/7/2005
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i am at peace and feel a freedom i never knew before.the others who had written for me to be considered well i had niggly feelings in my gut.

is one not supposed to refer to their Dom as master when they aren't collared? i feel like he is for the most part.

he does prefer to be called Sir tho and its r/t and it encompasses the training i seek.

i doubt at this point in time i will ever be his slave. that is not what he wishes for and i am not ready anyway for that level of commitment but to me i refer to us as such b/c that is what it FEELS like in many ways.

i will give no less of myself b/c there is no collar and very well may never be.i shall respect him like he is for that is my way.

no matter the outcome he will always remain special to me and i will think of him as my first master.

he is the one that i have given my hand to....to lead me away from all that i know that is safe and taking me on the journey of where it is i wish to go.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

if i used some of my past stinking thinking, i would hope my master would let me know sometimes my judgement isnt always best,lol, even you know that...you've had to point it out to me enough times in my newness and your not my master.

Yes but that's why he helps you make your judgement BETTER and helps you gain the skills so you can trust your judgement.

After all, he can't send you out in the world to follow his orders unless he can be sure you have good judgement to be able to do so. Otherwise you're just kind of a lump he has to always watch out for.

Personally I think you got into this relationship too deep too fast. Last week you were posting questions about training and what to do with a guy you never met offline. This week he's your master. You obviously feel you can trust your judgement in this case.

< Message edited by fyreredsub -- 11/11/2005 5:06:56 PM >

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/11/2005 3:49:43 PM

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

i am at peace and feel a freedom i never knew before.the others who had written for me to be considered well i had niggly feelings in my gut.

is one not supposed to refer to their Dom as master when they aren't collared? i feel like he is

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

if i used some of my past stinking thinking, i would hope my master would let me know sometimes my judgement isnt always best,lol, even you know that...you've had to point it out to me enough times in my newness and your not my master.

Yes but that's why he helps you make your judgement BETTER and helps you gain the skills so you can trust your judgement.

After all, he can't send you out in the world to follow his orders unless he can be sure you have good judgement to be able to do so. Otherwise you're just kind of a lump he has to always watch out for.

Personally I think you got into this relationship too deep too fast. Last week you were posting questions about training and what to do with a guy you never met offline. This week he's your master. You obviously feel you can trust your judgement in this case.

Lass in two words.... You Rock! I look forward to reading your comments on what ever subject.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to fyreredsub)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/11/2005 4:00:26 PM

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hats off to you too IronBear. I learn alot from you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

i am at peace and feel a freedom i never knew before.the others who had written for me to be considered well i had niggly feelings in my gut.

is one not supposed to refer to their Dom as master when they aren't collared? i feel like he is

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

if i used some of my past stinking thinking, i would hope my master would let me know sometimes my judgement isnt always best,lol, even you know that...you've had to point it out to me enough times in my newness and your not my master.

Yes but that's why he helps you make your judgement BETTER and helps you gain the skills so you can trust your judgement.

After all, he can't send you out in the world to follow his orders unless he can be sure you have good judgement to be able to do so. Otherwise you're just kind of a lump he has to always watch out for.

Personally I think you got into this relationship too deep too fast. Last week you were posting questions about training and what to do with a guy you never met offline. This week he's your master. You obviously feel you can trust your judgement in this case.

Lass in two words.... You Rock! I look forward to reading your comments on what ever subject.

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/12/2005 3:25:18 PM

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Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

yw.

you are honest w/ yourself and that comes through in your posts

quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist

fyreredsub,

Thank you for the compliment. I really appreciate it. I don't know that I live up to your view of me, but I appreciate the sentiment a lot.

As far as loving and trusting goes, I fell in love first. The trusting will follow in due time.

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/14/2005 7:00:22 AM

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Joined: 11/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

i have this vision of how i'd find my One. First, superficial attraction. Next, values. Then respect -- from real life experiences. Then love. Then that ultimate trust.

So far no man has made it through all the hoops, but i have hope.

candystripper

quote:

mmmm *looks at the size of the hoops* mmmmmmm I think I need to loose a few pounds !

Knight of Mists

i laughed when i read this; i visualised tigers jumping through hoops of flames, LOL.

candystripper

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/14/2005 8:15:59 AM

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Joined: 7/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Thirdly, this is a not a M/s or D/s thing.... this just basic relationship building with ourselves and others that exist in any intimate relationship.

While I can appericiate your interest in this thread and what bella had to say, you are trying to take this out of context. The context is that THIS IS a M/s, D/'s thing...this is a website dedicated to it. Im a bit confused as to why I see so may trying to apply this statement. Are they holding onto some vanilla morals within the community? I think that its a known factor that you must learn and earn trust..you went off the deep end with what she had to say...I beleive that each of already knows that we must learn to trust the one we are with....I think bella is speaking about after the fact that trust is established. Do not make her out to be someone preaching that a sub/slave should blindly trust the first Dom/Master/Mistress that he/she runs across...maybe you should reformulate you answer into something a little more pratical

Master Six

_____________________________

I wish you well

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/14/2005 8:19:29 AM

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

quote:

mmmm *looks at the size of the hoops* mmmmmmm I think I need to loose a few pounds !

Knight of Mists

i laughed when i read this; i visualised tigers jumping through hoops of flames, LOL.

candystripper

Hmmmmmmm as long as it isn't Grizzlies jumping through hoops (Unless they are darned big ones and held at ground level so we can sedately step through them on our way to hibernating ..... Now where is that delectable slave I want to hibernate with????????

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to candystripper)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/14/2005 8:43:59 AM

Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

Lol I absolutely just love that declaration. Thankyou for the early morning laugh, MrThorns.

I think just from talking to some persons over the years that when they say they have no limits..they are also stating that when they find the Owner they trust, or already have the Owner they trust..that there isn't anything at those points if the Owner suggested it, that they would not atleast try. I also think that from listening to them that those "things" is actually a limited view to the more popular things, whippings, bondage, poly, anal, watersports, blood letting, markings..etc..a couple of reasons I can think of are 1. Anything that they have come across that they truely do find repulsive, they block it out pretty much all together, and it no longer even becomes part of their thought process, and 2. They have just not ran across anything as of yet that they would at some point in time find objectionable..this doesn't mean that those things are not out there still..just that they haven't seen or heard about them to base an opinion on.

I know for myself that "snuff" isn't even anything I ever mention as a limit, and have to a degree blocked that out, because for me personally it just isn't even conceivable.

For me this is a M/s thing. While I need my Owner to be well rounded and responsible..I don't ask such things when seeking a Owner as to wether he can balance a check book, or likes strawberry icecream, or loves to dance..I want to know if his ideals of being a Master, and being a slave match mine..I want to know what experience he has in guidance, and discipline of another human being..I want to know what his interests in the kink, and taboo are, and what experience he's had with those.

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to MrThorns)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/14/2005 8:55:56 AM

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From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

While it may be nice to be a no limits slave or submissive, i think that not many are, even those that claim to be, order them to put a gun to their heads and pull the trigger, i dont think that there is so many of them that would meekly go to their deaths, some might, but not many. What many mean when they say they are a no limits slave is that they have no safeword, no way to stop or control play, however some mean what they say, that they truly have no limits.

As to whatever or not that is healthy? i dont know, but it is a lifestyle choice like any other, what i however disagree whit is that said no limits slaves is more or less worth than me that do have limits, submission is not a contest, who can dive deepest, it is aboute finding the level where one is comfortable and build a relationship there

i somtimes wish i could become a slave, give myself over completly, but i have other obligations in my life i will not give up, and even if i trust my Master whit my life, i will not trust anyone but myself whit the wellbeing of my soul.

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/15/2005 6:05:44 AM

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Joined: 11/8/2005
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quote:

Does it mean that i am not a true submissive to have these limits?

I always love these debates. So and So is not a twue submissive or slave if they have limits. That is right up there with the "slaves should not have opinions" statement. Everyone has limits. Just because someone identifies with submissive or slave it doesn't suddenly mean that you are not human. *In my opinion*Anyone who says that slaves shouldn't have limits and if they do they should be pushed through is Domineering not Dominant. Don't let other people define who you are with their definitions. Limits are limits for a reason and need to be respected.

(in reply to starshineowned)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/15/2005 6:10:10 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72
Are they holding onto some vanilla morals within the community? Master Six

No, it's simply a reality that a great majority of the skills that are learned as necessary in vanilla relationships are also necessary in M/s relationships. Thus, when you discuss an issue, it's not a "M/s" issue, but a "relationship" issue.

Clear and specific language is important to a lot of us. We don't like to contradict ourselves or be sloppy or always having to re-clarify basic statements.

(in reply to SirSix72)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/15/2005 6:53:25 AM

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From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
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Well Aivana ofcourse pepole have limits, i think the problem is, do a slave give her Master the right to brake those limits when she or he submits to their Master?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/15/2005 6:55:30 AM

HeavenlyCeleste

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Joined: 9/12/2005
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Interesting topic...My slave has no limits. There are things he of course prefers not to do but he knows he is there for My enjoyment and will do as he is told. Of course I know the things he enjoys and the things he doesn't so I don't spend a lot of time on those activities. After all, a happy slave makes life so much sweeter!

(in reply to subspaceinMD)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/15/2005 7:24:27 AM

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Joined: 7/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Thus, when you discuss an issue, it's not a "M/s" issue, but a "relationship" issue.

This is a M's issues. This isnt a vanilla relationship issue. If you try and mix the two you get an unbalanced or bias opinion based upon a vanilla relationship issue. This is an M's, D's thing. You are trying to achieve TPE then leave the morals your mama raised you with at the door is the way I see it.

Master Six

_____________________________

I wish you well

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/15/2005 8:52:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72
TPE then leave the morals your mama raised you with at the door is the way I see it.

Master Six

The morals that say you should be honest, true to yourself, pick your battles, and allow others the same courtesy?

Why should those be thrown away?

Frankly the only thing my mother taught me that doesn't work in M/s is not to be dependent on a man for necessities.

Other than that, every single thing she taught me not only is not in conflict with M/s, but greatly helpful towards it.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 11/15/2005 9:11:10 AM >

(in reply to SirSix72)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/15/2005 12:56:08 PM

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i wish Master would post to this forum, (crossing fingers) maybe one day He will...anyways..we were discussing this topic...and He pointed out an interesting fact. He said..the thing he said was even "Doms/Masters have limits" there are many things He has done or learned how to do because He knows His slave liked them or wanted to try it. They are things that He wouldnt have thought of doing, or perhaps were even a limit for Him, so even Masters limits get pushed. He used my recent cutting as an example. He said when He first learned how to do that, it wasnt because He had an interest, it was cuz His slave at the time expressed an interest in it and the opportunity came up for Him to learn how to do it. He would have said before He did it that cutting into someones skin with a scalpel would have been a limit for Him...so even Masters/Doms limits get pushed.
He gave me other examples but i dont want to bore you with my ramblings...anyways..i thought this was an interesting ting to add to the limit/no limit topic.

(in reply to Cloudz)

RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/15/2005 1:22:39 PM

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Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavenlyCeleste

Interesting topic...My slave has no limits. There are things he of course prefers not to do but he knows he is there for My enjoyment and will do as he is told. Of course I know the things he enjoys and the things he doesn't so I don't spend a lot of time on those activities. After all, a happy slave makes life so much sweeter!

So, the reality is that he has your limits, not "no limits". Because if not, then you're telling us that he'd be willing to rob a convenience store, commit murder or throw himself in front of moving train because you told him to do it.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to HeavenlyCeleste)

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