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RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/16/2005 11:51:03 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		There is no limits trust. We have it. It's not one sided, we give it to each other. beth isn't a "no limits" slave, she is MY "no limits" slave. Sure it's amusing to challenge a self identifying "no limits" sub by telling them you'd like them to appear in your next snuff film, but its not the point.

"No limits" is a practical and obtainable goal for a WIIWD relationship. Like "safe-words", limits can be removed and replaced. How is that possible? Trust. The example of putting a loaded gun to her head is not germane to a functioning lifestyle no limits couple. Even those that go as far as to de-personalize, or de-humanize their relationship and define their slaves as property wouldn't consider that test appropriate. A slave is VALUABLE property. A slave is RARE and PRECIOUS property. People who have M/s as their relationship goal may search their entire lives for such a relationship. So the "test" to prove you achieved it is to destroy such a rare, precious, and valuable person/commodity? Would you strive all your life to own a Rembrandt and once you've got it in your house burn it, just because you can?

The person who lists themselves as no-limits submissive may be misguided, but they at least may appreciate and have as their goal total trust, and total commitment. These are honorable and un-selfish goals. The person who lists slavery as a goal but has a laundry list of "wonts" or "cant's" is looking more for a sensation facilitator than a Master/Mistress. No harm in that. No less valid a goal. My experience in the search process and in other couples I've met indicates relationships fulfilling physical desires/needs are much more common. There is no need for more. No "only" or "one true way". I've been in relationships like that. They're fun, and sessions are no less intense, no less valid.

But to discount or not believe that anyone can achieve that sense of "no-limits" trust in another is a rationalization of personal experience and NOT reality.

(in reply to ImpGrrl)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/16/2005 12:54:01 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		That is a butiful post and it hit the nail streihgt on the head in my opinion, it is mostly how i feel.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/16/2005 1:37:10 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72

I agree with you as well LA. However I have seen and experienced the effects of applying these in places they dont belong..ie trying to drive the infallable round peg througha square hole.


Master Six


mmmmmmm but what exactly is the infallable round peg into that square hole. This comment is of no value in understanding what you mean in putting so-called "vanilla" relationship dynamics into the D/s relationship Dynamics. If you going to give an example.... well give one then and not a peg and hole.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to SirSix72)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/16/2005 1:47:37 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear



I guess I'm the odd man out here. I live and have lived by a code of conduct which includes morality and ethics which is not generally part of the "norm" for society. However there are some similarities. Other that the advantage or going shopping when I want, I have no great need for society as such, jusy a group of like minded friends for company. But then I have and do live so far out of the squate that I probably wouldn't know the square if I fell over it. As much as this may annoy some, I deal with "problems" with out the recourse to the authorities, police or courts.



mmmmmmm I don't think you are any more the odd man out than anyone else. Yes you might have less direct needs of society than many. mmmmm but do enjoy many items that are made in your house by the so called vanilla world. like the brew your drinking ... the chair you sitting on... the clothes you wear and host of other things. We all have varying needs of society... some of these needs are direct interactions... and some are indirect needs.... In some ways... society just happens to be convienient to our wants. Also, if our moralities become to far out of the norm of society... well society does have a way of dealing with such non-comformists... it's called Jail.

We are indeed fortunate that on the whole... Human societies are generally very accomodating to a broad spectrum of moral choices as long as we as an individual do not make moral choices that are seen as an immediate threat to society as a whole. Sure we have factions that will see others as immoral or self-righteous. It will be a battle till the end of time I suspect.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/16/2005 2:10:43 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72


quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Seeking the broadest of moralities that unite us as humans is frankly a constructive approach in my opinion, but we also must recognize the individuality that we bring to our moral code. .

I agree with you here KOM. The thing I see happeing is that the use of ones personal morality has over-ridden the power of a Master/Mistress/Dom. we are now plauged with the personal morality of such an individual that we place under consideration. Such as using the "my Dom" thing to describe in a jealous attitude as being the boyfreind or girlfriend ina given dynamic. I personally think by losing this attitude that we could all learn much more from one another and possibly open new avenues of interest within any personal dynamic.

Master Six


Jealous is not a moral issue... it is a security/self-esteem issue.

secondly, just because.. a girl states the "my Dom" thing... doesn't make it bad. In Monogamist relationship such a thought process is completely acceptable. It is a question of context when such a thought process exists. The context being the type and style of the relationship in question.

thirdly, I have never felt that my girls morality to infringe on my power over them... maybe because I have taken the time to assess moral compatibility and belief systems with my girls alandra and kyra.

In my opinion, There is two basic line of thougths that Dominants have towards their slaves. One is that a slave is to be what ever they want them to be.... The other and the one align myself with is to "Enhancing" what they already are! It appears to me from much of what you state... is that you seem follow the first line of thinking.... this is particularly evident since you consider a slave's personal morality can and will upsurp the power of Dominants. I myself do not find it to be a problem... since I am not trying to make them what they are not and therefore am never threatened to achieve my goals, control and power over them. so maybe you are plagued by such moral boundaries because you are trying to fit square pegs into round holes.




_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to SirSix72)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/16/2005 2:31:42 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I agree with you KoM. Perhaps it's just that some prefer to keep Society at an arm's length. Whilst I support much of what society does and certainly my local (general) community, perhaps I have a cynical view of the essentials and governments which favour those with a higher income as far as services such as medical aid and has a blonkered vision regarding those who are in need of propper medical attention but dont earn enough to be paying taxes. Or a police department who is so terrifies of minority or ethnic groups that they will not act unless there is a serious crime or find excuses not to act when groups of juvenile thugs terrorise shops or private homes. The official excuse is that they were too busy or the clasic excuse is that their "Guide lines" said so-and-so...... Hence I have found it far better to accept the responsibility of the security of my hiome and family (including my extended family) and not involve the authorities at all.

In many cases, were both my health and finances what they should be, we would be even more selfsufficient as far as building my own home and furnishing it.. Alas I am completely lost when it comes to computers, vidios, microwaves, TVs, DVD oplayers and motor cars so I am forced (often reluctantly0 to have to rely on society for thiose things. Were we living in the bush, the only store bought cloths I would own would be what I may need for official occasions, the rest I can and have made myself. However I do highly value the companionship and friendship of a smallish close circle of friends/family and I would not swap them for anything.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/16/2005 2:59:22 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		i agree IronBear sosity cears so little aboute those that are a little different, that need somthing others do not, it is dificult to live in it somtimes.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Limits/No Limits - 11/16/2005 4:17:42 PM   
SirSix72


Posts: 347
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings KOM,

I personally have never enchanted a slave/submissive to gain the personal interest that I have in her. If you refer to the "your not my Dom syndrome" maybe you can see what im talking about through all the muck in the thread.There are a great many Doms that will enchant a sub/slave in order to gain their attention. An example is per say a Dom finds a young submissive and has found her interseting none the less. But she has an ambigious limit such as thinking that because she has to call another Mistress/Master/Sir/Dom that this equates as having a relationship with the said person. This is driving a round peg into a square hole. Maybe this will be enough to show an example you are trying to get from me. Your thoughts Sir......and please dont try and shove relational dynamics down my throat. I am high protocal and view those that cant show me respect as being rude. I have two girls and I demand that this request be met at all times. the relationship is between me and them by me being the "Owner". There is a clear difference that they are property not a symbiotic relationship between myself and them. Neither of us are less without the other. They will always be slaves and I will always be a MAster with or without them.

Master Six

< Message edited by SirSix72 -- 11/16/2005 4:22:33 PM >

_____________________________

I wish you well

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Limits/No Limits - 3/28/2008 12:03:29 PM   
MisterStrongWill


Posts: 44
Joined: 12/31/2004
Status: offline 		Well the answer to your question is everyone has limits. No limits-means trouble and no resepect for anyone.

As a A Dom I have limits for me and a slave. First and formost..there is a time and a place for everything.

(in reply to subspaceinMD)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Limits/No Limits - 3/28/2008 12:14:48 PM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		My girl can quite honestly say she has no limits.

Does that mean she would placidly stand there and let Me cut of her legs with a chain saw (or any of the other overblown examples people oft use when discussing this point)? Of course not.

What it means is that she trusts Me and trusts in My duty of care to avoid causing HARM.

The fact that the girl has no limits doesn't mean there are none within the relationship. My girl has no limits with Me.... she doesn't need them, *I* have limits and a duty of care, those keep her safe.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to subspaceinMD)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Limits/No Limits - 3/30/2008 11:54:44 AM   
Evility


Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceinMD
...and says that she defers to Your judgment when it comes to setting limits...


In real practice there are so few submissives who behave in this manner that it is almost useless to discuss this arrangement.

(in reply to subspaceinMD)
Profile   Post #: 151
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