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Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in Poland - 8/15/2008 6:31:30 AM

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Not a good sign given the current problems with Georgia and Russia...

"Russian officials have voiced alarm at a preliminary deal that would allow the US to site missiles in Poland."

"Poland will host the missiles as part of a defence shield the US says it needs against "rogue states" like Iran.

A top general in Moscow said the move would worsen ties with the West already strained by the Georgian conflict.

Russia's envoy to Nato has meanwhile been quoted as saying the timing of the deal shows its true purpose is to counter Russia's "strategic potential".

Under the deal signed on Thursday, the US will install 10 interceptor missiles at a base on the Baltic coast in return for help strengthening Polish air defences.

At a press conference in Moscow on Friday, Russia's deputy chief of general staff, Gen Anatoly Nogovitsyn, said the US move "cannot go unpunished".

"It's a cause for regret that at a time when we are already in a difficult situation, the American side further exacerbates the situation in relations between the United States and Russia," Gen Nogovitsyn said."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7563182.stm

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 6:38:37 AM

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Yea, the timing on this really sucks.

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 7:08:48 AM

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At a press conference in Moscow on Friday, Russia's deputy chief of general staff, Gen Anatoly Nogovitsyn, said the US move "cannot go unpunished".

"It's a cause for regret that at a time when we are already in a difficult situation, the American side further exacerbates the situation in relations between the United States and Russia," Gen Nogovitsyn said."

Russia needs it's wings clipped,they are seeking a return to the old days when the world shook at pronouncements emanating from the Kremlin....those days are gone and won't be returning anytime soon despit Putin's saber rattling

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 7:38:30 AM

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Typical American aggressive foreign policy.

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 7:43:24 AM

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Not for nothing Meatcleaver,but typical American Foriegn Policy..kept the Bear behind the Curtain for the entirety of the cold war...and western Europe free ...If for a minute you believe Russia to be an honest and aggrieved party in this most recent incident....I would like to talk to you about a bridge I could sell you cheap...

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 7:58:10 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Not for nothing Meatcleaver,but typical American Foriegn Policy..kept the Bear behind the Curtain for the entirety of the cold war...and western Europe free ...If for a minute you believe Russia to be an honest and aggrieved party in this most recent incident....I would like to talk to you about a bridge I could sell you cheap...

The more secret papers that are released in Europe the more it is clear that European governments believed during the Cold War, Russia had a defensive policy and didn't think Russia was capable of invading western Europe. The USA always overstates its case but forgets that most Europeans aren't as paranoid of Russia as the USA is and there was quite a lot of information going both ways through the iron curtain. I hitched around eastern Europe when I was 18 and I was quite surprised how little I was checked. In fact it is now more difficult for a western European to enter the USA than it was to enter Eastern Europe in the cold war.

As the rightwing American commentator PJ O'Rourke said, the CIA only had to send an agent to Moscow on a shopping trip and the USA would have understood the USSR was incapable of organizing a shopping trip, never mind a war. The Cuban crisis was a Soviet response to the US placing missiles in Turkey so there is something to think about. Another aggressive act by the US that almost started a war.

Also, Germany was occupied and couldn't object as to what the allied powers did on their soil and the USA being the most powerful occupying power did what it wanted to do and consultation with the Europeans was minimal for the first decade or so of the cold war.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 8/15/2008 8:01:33 AM >

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 8:09:56 AM

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And yet for 50 years Western Europe enjoyed peace,despite the presence of all those Russian divisions in the occupied Eastern European countries....and not once did a Russian tank roll thru the Fulda Gap.Yep aggressive American Foreign Policy at work

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Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 8:13:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And yet for 50 years Western Europe enjoyed peace,despite the presence of all those Russian divisions in the occupied Eastern European countries....and not once did a Russian tank roll thru the Fulda Gap.Yep aggressive American Foreign Policy at work

We were a forward US defensive position, if there was going to be WWIII it was quite clear the US wanted to fight it on European soil so don't ask us to be grateful for that.

Just like now, the US wants to use Poland and Czech as a forward defensive position, it has nothing to do with helping the Poles or the Czechs, that is why public opinion is against US sites on their soil.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 8/15/2008 8:14:57 AM >

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 8:19:54 AM

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Maybe its me, but this is staged. It just happens to be time for an election. We need a really big damn enemy.

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 10:18:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And yet for 50 years Western Europe enjoyed peace,despite the presence of all those Russian divisions in the occupied Eastern European countries....and not once did a Russian tank roll thru the Fulda Gap.Yep aggressive American Foreign Policy at work

We were a forward US defensive position, if there was going to be WWIII it was quite clear the US wanted to fight it on European soil so don't ask us to be grateful for that.

Just like now, the US wants to use Poland and Czech as a forward defensive position, it has nothing to do with helping the Poles or the Czechs, that is why public opinion is against US sites on their soil.

Hey Meatcleaver take a look at a map,geography dictated where any confrontation with Warsaw Pact forces would come not U.S.foriegn policy...Europe slept under a blanket of American security for 50 plus years and we shouldn't ask for a little gratitude...talk about chutzpah..would this be an example of typical European atitude!!!!!

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Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 10:27:11 AM

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What a world it would be if we all were so easily programmed. Like the native peoples, we are wary of Greeks bearing blankets.

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 10:52:00 AM

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Not programmed Reality it's called educated and realistic...if living under the Soviet yolk was so appealing explain the Chech uprising in 1968,Poland and the tearing down of the Wall...were these examples of happy citizens or dissatisfied prisoners of a failed and corrupt system.All the while Western Europe prospered and was at peace under the American missile shield...not programming ...historical fact!!!!

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 11:12:27 AM

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Russia has been beefing things up for a few years now. Economic alliances against US interest, as well as military operations that are aggressive themselves http://www.air-attack.com/news/news_article/3227/Four-Russian-strategic-bombers-patrol-Arctic-Atlantic-oceans.html

I stated in another thread abpout Russia, the Soviet hardliners are not gone.

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 11:46:50 AM

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Of course, it's nonsense to suggest that I have stated any desire to live under the Soviet "yolk" (sic). I simply have not been inculcated to display the automatic responses which seem so common in the land of the free. That doesn't mean that I choose the society of your enemies, just that I am able to conceive of other, separate and distinct ways to organise this continent on which I find myself. For me, it is not an "either/or" choice. American materialism is barely more attractive to many than Soviet control.

Despite the advantages offered under a more liberal regime, you might be surprised at the number of former Eastern bloc countries where a longing for the old Soviet days is widespread. Before Tusk, Poland was going that route and President Kaszynski (sp?) is an old-school nationalist with more in common with the Russians than the west by a very wide margin.

Perspective tends to alter the view, so grab every opportunity to widen yours with both hands.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Not programmed Reality it's called educated and realistic...if living under the Soviet yolk was so appealing explain the Chech uprising in 1968,Poland and the tearing down of the Wall...were these examples of happy citizens or dissatisfied prisoners of a failed and corrupt system.All the while Western Europe prospered and was at peace under the American missile shield...not programming ...historical fact!!!!

Interesting use of the term "missile shield". Hmmm. Anyway, as we long suspected and now know with total certainty, Russia was never in a position to overrun western Europe. Don't we all laugh now about the red-under-the-bed stories? That's what your missiles and the bases full of soldiers full of gear offered western Europe - protection from a scare story. Massive profits for an armament industry that has been terrifying the citizens of the biggest economy on the planet for 50 years.

People are the same, everywhere.

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 12:17:58 PM

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A longing for the old soviet day's huh? This a couple of sentances after refuting that the old Soviet Model was ever a threat to anyone,what might they be longing for the high standard of living under that failed system the long lines at the stores,where the shelf's were empty...please enlighten me who is longing for those day's

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 12:22:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

...please enlighten me who is longing for those day's

......the losers. the ones who, under capitalism, inevitably fail so that others can succeed. Now, as i've just made that statement i'm sure you'll want to accuse me of being a Societ sympathiser. You'd be wrong. However, i see society as having more options than simple capitalism or basic socialism. Both systems have flaws, pointing out the flaws of one does not necessarily mean that the pointer-outer prefers the other.

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 12:24:20 PM

kdsub

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I’m wondering why Washington and Europe are so surprised by Russia’s reaction to the missile agreement with Poland.

We almost went to war over Russia’s deployment of missiles in Cuba. In fact we not only demanded their removal but also militarily forced their removal.

I think Russia’s reaction is appropriate, measured, and surprisingly low keyed.

I just don’t understand our administration and their seemingly total lack of common sense. Those missiles could be deployed in a less sensitive location and still be effective.

I don’t believe President Bush when he says they are to protect us all from rogue nations and are purely defensive. I think it is classic cowboy yeehaw Bush diplomacy.

I just hope we… and the world… survive until we can kick his butt and his cronies out of power.

Butch

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 12:28:31 PM

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Butch i doubt anyone in Europe is the slightest bit suprised by Russia`s reaction. A few politicians may act suprised but the response was hardly unexpected.

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 12:29:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

...please enlighten me who is longing for those day's

......the losers. the ones who, under capitalism, inevitably fail so that others can succeed. Now, as i've just made that statement i'm sure you'll want to accuse me of being a Societ sympathiser. You'd be wrong. However, i see society as having more options than simple capitalism or basic socialism. Both systems have flaws, pointing out the flaws of one does not necessarily mean that the pointer-outer prefers the other.

I have agree with you positions in the past of there being other options, yet in this post you suggest that the realities of capitalism is that the reason folks succeed is because of others failing. Why is there not the option that those that have failed will eventually succeed? Or that folks that succeed have done so inspite of those that failed?

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/15/2008 12:39:32 PM

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mike, do your own research - its more valuable to you that way.

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