RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie?

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RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/22/2008 8:29:02 PM

YourhandMyAss

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I have actually tried to say that, or in the case of his breath stinks and it's been weeks since he brushed his teeth and they're gross, lets go brush our teeth together I just ate, why not join me, And the person has always flat out said no, I don't wish to, you go ahead. Sometimes tact doesn't always work to well lol. Sometimes you really do have to come out and say it directly. Now ya don't have to go overboard and beat them about the head with it by repeating it a ton of times and harping on it once it's been said, but sometimes a plain and direct, you really need a bath, I wish you'd take one, or go brush your teeth they're funky is needed. Other wise they brush off the tactful attempt as an invitation and not as trying to say something really important and a need but disquise it as a nice request for them to acompany you, simply cause you want their company.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackPhx

Fast reply not directed at any one persons post...

I don't think I shall ever tell someone I am intimate with the following:

3 You smell and need to bathe

Instead I MAY say

3. Care to join me in the shower?

If it is a slave I own or a Dominant I am with, or just a plain ol vanilla relationship I see no reason to destroy an ego in pursuit of the truth. You can tell the truth and still display tact, diplomacy and consideration of the other persons feelings.

Poenkitten

< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 8/22/2008 8:36:37 PM >

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RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/23/2008 12:01:17 PM

MisterP61

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

MoGA......

I do hear you. These matters are difficult, aren't they? It would be so easy if they were black and white. Yet, we have things to consider.

I have My eyes on a boy. If he can come forth and be completely honest, there might be a form of a collar for him. I cam not say. The decision is his.

When the fuck did this happen ... and why the fuck was I not told it will not happen

_____________________________

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Though the truth may vary, this ship will carry our bodies safe to shore - Of Monsters and Men
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Post #: 142

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/23/2008 12:40:15 PM

BlackPhx

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I agree, there are some people you have to hit with a clue by 4 or a brick, but the majority of people can handle and absorb tact. I try to mindful of the baggage that people can have that can present landmines when one is brutally honest or less than tactful. I have also answered my door, told someone sorry not a good time to vist please call first next time and closed the door on them. Tact is what we should strive to use with our Dominants however, and in some cases vice versa. I am not one keen on ordering my Master around even if he DOES need a shower after exercise, I think the invitation or suggestion works a bit better towards saving my ass from punishment.

poenkitten

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Post #: 143

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/23/2008 6:39:49 PM

YourhandMyAss

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poen, I guess I am just lucky I don't get punishments then cause it's not our dynamic. I'd be in trouble all the time cause I am naturally cheeky and playful and sometimes quite willfull:P

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Post #: 144

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/23/2008 9:29:37 PM

BlackPhx

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There are a great many different types of punishments and corporal is the least of them. As for cheeky..truyst me I could be considered queen of the SAMS if there was such a thing...I can be as tenacious as a pitbull when I think I am right and it is often only his pulling out the I am Master and I say so that makes me back down. Doesn't mean I won't pay for being a pitbull..I am doing so right now..sigh, in a very painful way.

Hmmm there is something I really need to think about on this thread and I would like to hear from others, especially those who don't tolerate a lie..

IF your sub/slave knows something or has information that you don't and you force them to agree with you despite that knowlege or experience..is that a lie that you are now going to tolerate because you have forced that issue despite their trying to inform you of other factors?

A facetious example: You believe you told them about something you were planning to do. The sub states that you didn't and were hurt by the fact that you didn't inform them according to your contract with them. You are certain you did and insist that you are correct. After several go rounds the sub finally agrees even though they know you didn't... At that point they have lied in order to appease you... Should they stand their ground and cause a rift that way, or refer to rule One Master/Mistress is always right and Rule Two..If Master/Mistress is wrong, see Rule One, thereby being forced into a lie to comply?

poenkitten

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Post #: 145

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/24/2008 10:00:38 AM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackPhx
Hmmm there is something I really need to think about on this thread and I would like to hear from others, especially those who don't tolerate a lie..

IF your sub/slave knows something or has information that you don't and you force them to agree with you despite that knowlege or experience..is that a lie that you are now going to tolerate because you have forced that issue despite their trying to inform you of other factors?

A facetious example: You believe you told them about something you were planning to do. The sub states that you didn't and were hurt by the fact that you didn't inform them according to your contract with them. You are certain you did and insist that you are correct. After several go rounds the sub finally agrees even though they know you didn't... At that point they have lied in order to appease you... Should they stand their ground and cause a rift that way, or refer to rule One Master/Mistress is always right and Rule Two..If Master/Mistress is wrong, see Rule One, thereby being forced into a lie to comply?

poenkitten

I expect my girl to tell me if she knows something I don't. Since she's incredibly bright and has degrees in political science and philosophy, the odds of her having more or better information than I do about certain subjects is pretty high. I'd be doing us both a disservice if I didn't listen to what she had to say. I might not agree with her at first, but if she can back up her statements with solid evidence, then I'll listen. She would never agree with me for the sake of agreement and I wouldn't expect it.

I can't imagine a situation like the one you describe ever getting to the point of stooping to lies. I have so much going on in my life that it's easy to forget things. I'm queen of the To-Do list and the sticky note. One of my sub's regular duties is to remind me of things I need to accomplish.

Of course, it's just as easy for the sub to forget something. You could be dead sure that I failed to mention Plan 9, but that doesn't mean it's true. Or I could be sure that I did, but I could be in error. Mistakes happen; they don't necessarily equal lies. In the case of a situation like this, I expect that we'd both agree that either of us might have forgotten and let it go before it caused a rift in the relationship. There's no need to lie about it.

If you feel the need to lie, then I'd say there's a bigger problem that needs to be addressed.

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Post #: 146

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/24/2008 1:50:02 PM

Steponme73

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Only if it does not hurt anyone and it is of no significance. If you tell your Domme a lie to protect her then in my opinion that is ok. If you are just lying to her...that is a big difference.

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Post #: 147

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/24/2008 2:17:37 PM

littlesarbonn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

Ok, I have issues... I'm partially color blind and have almost no sense of smell. So if what I am wearing doesn't go together or if I smell bad I would much rather have someone close to me tell me the brutal truth then to go out into public like that.

Jewel

I'd have no problem with this if the question wasn't always asked to me while I'm tied to the bed and she's holding a knife in her hands, coyly saying: "Does my shirt match my skirt?" and I then realize she's wearing a a striped shirt and a polka dot skirt of completely different colors of the spectrum that even Dr. Evil wouldn't have mixed together.

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Post #: 148

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/24/2008 2:30:29 PM

lostkitten2

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Ideally, you should be able to stop play for a few minutes and state clearly and inoffensively what you believe to be true.
I am unable to yet, although I am working on it, i's hard to switch in and out of sub space for me, so I will send an email at a later date or discuss it later, when we are not in a scene.

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RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/25/2008 2:39:29 PM

MisterP61

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterP61

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

MoGA......

I do hear you. These matters are difficult, aren't they? It would be so easy if they were black and white. Yet, we have things to consider.

I have My eyes on a boy. If he can come forth and be completely honest, there might be a form of a collar for him. I cam not say. The decision is his.

When the fuck did this happen ... and why the fuck was I not told it will not happen

I wish to apologize to both LadyPact and and bleaux for this post.... I was wrong to post in anger on a situation I did not know anything about.

_____________________________

Proudly married to the "Diva of Destruction" LadyPact
Though the truth may vary, this ship will carry our bodies safe to shore - Of Monsters and Men
What is the maximum effective range of an excuse? Zero meters!

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Post #: 150

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/28/2008 12:50:30 PM

YourhandMyAss

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From: Sacramento
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Potential for Lies don't always happen just when playing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lostkitten2

Ideally, you should be able to stop play for a few minutes and state clearly and inoffensively what you believe to be true.
I am unable to yet, although I am working on it, i's hard to switch in and out of sub space for me, so I will send an email at a later date or discuss it later, when we are not in a scene.

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Post #: 151

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/28/2008 1:41:36 PM

DarkSteven

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First off, I consider a lie to be something told with intent to deceive, by someone who knows or believes it to be false. If I tell you that it's raining outside and it turns out that someone is making a rainlike snoring sounds, that's not a lie.

My grandmother was the most scrupulously honest person I've ever known. That didn't stop her from lying to the Nazis when she thought it necessary to protect her family, and I'd have done the same.

I once lied to my ex in order to give her a surprise party. It required additional lies to get her out of the house, and more lies to get her back in. In one day, I had to lie to her four or five times to manipulate her, and I resented the hell out of doing it. I was so pissed off that I know I'm not cut out to be a good liar.

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RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/28/2008 3:47:42 PM

ShaktiSama

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Wow. Strange framing to this question.

I am not big with the lying, myself. I am also not a huge fan of "brutal" honesty. I generally find that people who are prone to lies often present brutality as a false alternative, and the same is true of people who embrace emotional brutality and claim that the only alternative is to lie.

It's a false dichotomy, really. Abusive people are fond of false dichotomies as alternatives to their abuse. There are very, very few situations which demand that someone choose between genuine falsheood or brutal and painful honesty. Generally a person who genuinely means well can find a way to tell the truth with compassion--especially to those they care about.

< Message edited by ShaktiSama -- 8/28/2008 3:51:08 PM >

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