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RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/19/2008 9:16:17 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDolly

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

So... given that all people lie, what then is an acceptable lie and what is not? Zooming in on BDSM, in the context of a BDSM relationship, will you accept and/or understand your partner lying to you in any fashion or is this an utterly reprehensible act for which there is no forgiveness?

As a person who has been in a number of long-term relationships and as someone who once believed in compete honesty, I can now attest that there are indeed times when it is appropriate not to tell your partner everything you are thinking. And yes, there are also times when it is appropriate to outright lie.
Elan.

I agree. Telling your partner all your thoughts, barring any thoughts which would affect your partner in any way, is unreasonable and unnecessary. It is like demanding to read your diary.

Small lies such as No you don't look like you gained any weight, when asked abruptly, are okay. Your partner could be the kind to fly off into an unhealthy diet. If the partner really was gaining weight, there are better ways (or tricks :) ) to get the point across.

I agree, as always with the shapely beautiful one.

I can't tell you the "submissives" that beat me over the head with the "truth",
after 1 or 2 conversations, and it is often too much.
I don't need to know every bad thing, and all your faults and mistakes after
2 conversations, really I don't!
It often makes me run like hell, and truth be told, it makes many men and women
uncomfortable and run like hell.
I think truth and trust and intimacy needs to develop slowly, I don't want to be
overwhelmed or hit over the head with every single "dysfunctional truth", when I don't even know you!
Would you walk up to someone and say "Hello!" I am a fucked up person, I have had a fucked
up life and here is every bad thing that happened to me, now lets get serious?

< Message edited by MzMia -- 8/19/2008 9:35:25 PM >

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"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to MistressDolly)

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 9:44:39 AM

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The truth of every thing in life that we went through, being told upon meeting isn't what I consider the same thing as being truthful. No one should tell all to a stranger! But, when you do tell your story, be truthful about it. Will I tell every position I ever had sex in? Most likely not. lol But I will not hide anything that would be something someone should know. From the moment I meet someone I will be honest with them, but I will not sit down for a week and tell them every detail from birth in one sitting. Expecting someone to do that is really expecting far too much and isn't reasonable.

The thing is, be honest about what you do tell and if you know something might bother someone, you might want to tell them. Even if it is a deal breaker, it is best to get it out of the way rather than to come out later when you have some emotional investment.

Tell me you are human and faulty... all good unless that fault will make my life hell. Tell me you cheated on me... different story. I have deal breakers too and I will be honest and forthright in telling someone what they are. I am reasonable and know what I can handle but cheating, deception and living without honor are things I find unacceptable. Will I ever find a partner? I have found partners. lol I just couldn't keep them. lol My health and life situation are far from easy and most wouldn't want to take all that on, but the men that have been with me, still respect me and love me in some way. They just could not handle watching me suffer day in and out. To this day, they know if I say something, I mean it and they can trust it. That is more important to me than having a partner.

Have you ever had someone around who lied about little things, but did so often? At some point, you cannot trust them and everything is damaged. A lot of what we do in bdsm is considered unlawful. Are you going to trust someone who tells you little white lies in area's where if one little white lie or a raging lie could be told that gets you into trouble? When I am spanking that butt, I want to know my butt isn't going to jail! Sometimes the little things do matter! I don't want to pick between... well he only lies about his car, his ex and his chocolate eating, but he doesn't lie about breaking my rules or how he lives. Forget it! No one in my world will get into trouble for telling the truth, but they will exit my lil world if they lie. But telling the truth is not a ticket to get out of trouble for actions one knows are wrong to do to someone. You can't cheat and say... but.. but... I was honest. Tell people what you expect from them, they can't do it in serious things that matter, it doesn't matter if they are honest or not, it isn't going to work.

We are all human and have faults, but lying is one, I won't live with.

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 2:11:40 PM

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quote:

If anyone expects and desires pure honesty from their submissive, they must provide a truth-friendly environment..

Bravo!! Nice!

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RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 3:38:44 PM

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YourhandMyAss,

quote:

No. In my personal relationships it is never acceptable to have a partner who is a liar. Lying to me undermines my trust in you and is damaging to the overall relationship. If they can't tell you because it's a surprise, then I expect him to say it's a surprise and I will accept that and not push for an answer.

Now I do not think not telling someone everything that is on your mind is necessary, nor do I think it's lying not to do so, unless asked about what's on your mind and you make up a story to hide the original thought.

Like you, I value and strive for complete honesty in my personal relationships and in business and other relationships in general. This said, lets take the example you gave. So... I'm feeling extremely hurt about something my partner has done and she asks me what is on my mind. In the past, I would answer immediately and sometimes in poorly thought out, hurtful ways. This isn't necessary. Often, at the moment, a better answer is "I'm not able to answer right now, but I will tomorrow when I've had a chance to work through some feelings I'm having". On rare occasions, and I believe this happens to all of us, I'm not able to give my partner any answer that isn't in an inappropriate tone. Thus, I've learned to hold my tongue. You might call this lying. Perhaps it is. At any rate, it has been my experience that approaching my partner in a polite, courteous, loving way is far better than "letting it fly" in the moment. Ditto for partners who have "let it fly" at me. In as much as we can apologize and smooth things over afterward, hurtful words cause permanent damage. Therefore, I choose to avoid these types of conversations, sometimes by delaying information. It's much more productive to deal with issues when both my partner and I are diffused, rational, and able to communicate lovingly.

Elan.

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 3:45:59 PM

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deleted post

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 8/20/2008 3:52:13 PM >

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RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 4:23:50 PM

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LadyHibiscus,

quote:

Honestly, if you ever run into my ex, and he tells you that the sun rises in the east? Get up early to check.. A person who is in the early stages of a relationship with me who lies is in serious trouble, because if you can't at least *begin* by being honest, then how can I establish any kind of baseline for trust? If a man comes out with a monster piece of intel about himself a week into discussion, I have to wonder what ELSE is in the closet bursting to come out.

(extreme sarcasm) Gee, that ex of yours really left a favourable mark didn't he? (/extreme sarcasm)

I agree with you about establishing a baseline of trust. When initially courting, this can sometimes be a bit tricky though. For example, when you and I talk, I can tell you anything without fear of judgment, but this isn't true of everyone I know or have met. Indeed, I've had courtships end because I gave too much "honest" information, too soon. Even this can be a bit complex because in some cases a person who would nix me for honesty simply isn't compatible with me and in other cases it's just a case of allowing the relationships to mature a bit. I'm the same way. Honesty is wonderful and of paramount importance to me, however, I don't want to know everything about a person the first few times I meet/talk with them.

At this point in my life, I pretty much assume that everyone has lived a bit. I'm more suspicious of those who claim not to have a few things they're cautious of talking about early on because few people are pristine and perfect. So I accept that people have flaws and failings, and yes, a life that has been lived. This said, waiting to discuss something at an appropriate time is fine by me, but outright lying is not. Again, this can be multi-faceted because if I ask a question and someone answers, and then, later on, they fill in more details at a more appropriate time, this is fine. However, if they omit details in the moment and this is clearly done to be deceitful, that doesn't sit with me at all.

Elan.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 4:27:11 PM

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subtee,

quote:

Sindel:
At times I believe there are instances that it is ok to tell white lies. When your Mistress may be bloated and asks if she looks fat, certainly to spare her feelings you would tell her that she does not look fat, and in fact looks radiant!

subtee
It's a trick question; Mistresses don't bloat.

Now I see where I've gone wrong all these years. :-)

Elan.

(in reply to subtee)

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 4:30:20 PM

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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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What is this bloat of which you speak? Is that when my bra gets reeeeely tight?

Funny, no one ever complains about my looks then...

<edited to remove excessive dots>

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RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 4:31:29 PM

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Lockit,

quote:

I guess I have a character flaw... I never felt safe with a man who lied to me and I never was safe with one, as their lies seemed to really get in the way. I guess it would depend on the lie, but as a hard and fast rule in my life and a choice, I chose to not be with a liar. I don't see it as degree's of lying or classifications. When I have to go through the... what does this mean... are there other lies... when is he real... when is he just human and flawed... it is far too much drama, trauma and bs. I like to know where I stand and with someone who plays with words, intentions, manipulation, etc. I am standing on shaky ground. I am too old and cranky to play the game.

There are honest people out there that want what I want and will be thankful that I want honesty and offer honesty and if that is a flaw... I am okay with that.

There isn't anything you've written here that I disagree with. Indeed, this is the same kind of honesty I look for in a partner and that I always try to give.

Elan.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 4:35:30 PM

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Feylin,

Thanks for posting that wonderful bit of insight from the Krentz novel, "White Lies". A romance novel it may be, but there is a lot of truth in those words.

Elan.

(in reply to feylin)

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 4:44:41 PM

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LadyHibiscus,

quote:

What is this bloat of which you speak? Is that when my bra gets reeeeely tight? Funny, no one ever complains about my looks then...

I spoke not of bloat. You must have me mixed up with another boy in that *HUGE* stable of submissives of yours. :-)

quote:

<edited to remove excessive dots>

Good girl.

(That's the second time I've uttered this phase today. Teh subbie boy is on a roll!)

Elan.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 4:47:27 PM

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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

Good girl.

Elan.

Ahem. I DID warn you about using that phrase in my direction, didn't I? Mr Submissive Guy?

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RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 4:57:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

What is this bloat of which you speak? Is that when my bra gets reeeeely tight? Funny, no one ever complains about my looks then...

<edited to remove excessive dots>

Your excess dots were enchanting Ma`am, some of us boys like a woman plenty of dots.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 5:04:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

What is this bloat of which you speak? Is that when my bra gets reeeeely tight? Funny, no one ever complains about my looks then...

<edited to remove excessive dots>

Your excess dots were enchanting Ma`am, some of us boys like a woman plenty of dots.

Thank you, Politesub. It's good to have one's punctuation appreciated!

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RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 5:07:36 PM

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LadyHibiscus,

quote:

Ahem. I DID warn you about using that phrase in my direction, didn't I? Mr Submissive Guy?

I don't remember you warning me, but you have now. Sorry. :-)

Elan.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 5:08:20 PM

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My God. I almost posted something about her dots............................................................
...........................................But..........I didn't want to hi jack this thread <s>

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(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 5:08:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

LadyHibiscus,

quote:

Ahem. I DID warn you about using that phrase in my direction, didn't I? Mr Submissive Guy?

I don't remember you warning me, but you have now. Sorry. :-)

Elan.

Ah, SELECTIVE MEMORY. That's a sign of something or other, right?

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to ElanSubdued)

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 5:10:19 PM

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quote:

I don't remember you warning me, but you have now. Sorry. :-)

Elan.

Oh Elan,
For future reference, I do not like that particular phrase aimed in my direction either. Thanks in advance :)

MoGa *Who simply has to join a thread somewhere on this board*

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RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 5:13:37 PM

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Tell him, MoGa!

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RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? - 8/20/2008 5:18:42 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

My God. I almost posted something about her dots............................................................
...........................................But..........I didn't want to hi jack this thread <s>

Just for future reference... everyone keep their grubby mitts off my dots and dashes! *grinz*

Calla

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to MistressOfGa)

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