RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me'

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RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 3:44:03 PM

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From cnn money..abreakdown
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/15/smallbusiness/small_biz_taxes_factcheck.smb/index.htm

Sanity, I understand your worries about poor people getting handouts( I heartily disagree with you but I understand), but how many of those that have lost their jobs just this past year are going to be re-hired any time soon.
How many more jobs will be cut in this recession, in the banking, housing, energy etc etc will be out on their asses and be rehired straight back??
What are they to do until they find their feet, what about the under-educated, who have little chance of being hired for a job when there are people out of work who have two or more degrees ?
The fact that business are chucking out workers to give themselves/shareholders/investors more bang for their buck and not looking after their workers, to me is robbery of the worst kind.

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RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 3:51:17 PM

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Except what Obama's raising taxes for isn't to pay any bills, it's to "spread the wealth around."

He wants to play Robin Hood for four years. He wants to be "popular" while spending other people's money to get there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You just can't spend 800 billion on a war...and 700 billion on the economy... and who knows how many billion on healthcare and not raise taxes.

That’s about $11,000 per tax payer without the healthcare.

People have to realize we must pay our bills as a Nation...that means TAXES...I pay my bills…how about you.

It is stupid for McCain...and was idiot for Bush to think they could spend money like water and not raise taxes.

At least Obama understands you must raise somebody’s taxes to pay for the stupidity of the past.

Butch

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RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 4:01:55 PM

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Repeating the same falsehood over and over does not make it any truer Sanity.

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RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 4:08:50 PM

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What? You didn't see the video?

I can't let you miss that! Here it is again, in Barack Obama's own words:

"Spread the Wealth"

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Repeating the same falsehood over and over does not make it any truer Sanity.

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RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 4:19:08 PM

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So he said some hot button words Sanity....words that apparently infuriate you.....here's a link for you Obama.org/tax plan....read it I have and it works for me.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 4:19:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

How does increasing taxes on big business actually help? Won't they just raise prices to compensate for it? Isn't that just the consumer actually paying the tax? Does anyone know how much small business contributes to the amount of jobs? Tax cuts or tax increase is just a shell game folks. It moves money around, and either way it will not wind up where it needs to be.

What we can do is ensure that companies that ship jobs overseas or even bring foreign nationals here to work are penalized for that.

Under the Articles of Confederation, the U.S. government was flat broke.

As soon as the federal government went into operation in 1790, Alexander Hamilton got the new Congress to pass a tariff bill. With the monies anticipated by the tariff, Hamilton sold bonds.

Bam! Instant solvency.

And tariffs protect American workers.

In fact, the income of the federal government right up to the Civil War was based almost exclusively on tariff income.

My point: We need to protect American workers. When these sorry bastards say, "That is protectionism!"

We need to say, "Damn right it is."

Walt

< Message edited by DomOnTheLevel -- 10/16/2008 4:21:53 PM >

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RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 4:34:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

How does increasing taxes on big business actually help? Won't they just raise prices to compensate for it? Isn't that just the consumer actually paying the tax? Does anyone know how much small business contributes to the amount of jobs? Tax cuts or tax increase is just a shell game folks. It moves money around, and either way it will not wind up where it needs to be.

Tell ya what,let`s not tax businesses at all.

In fact,let`s give`m subsidies ,free land and no pollution controls.

Damm regulations.While we`re at it,let not oversee them or impose any rules on business.Let the market decide....

While we`re at it,let`s cut all taxes on all/every income(s) and outlaw any type of state sales tax or fee.

No one will pay any taxes and we`ll get to keep all that money.

It`ll be just like the 3rd world.

No taxes and no services.

Utopia,.......err Calcutta.....

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RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 4:40:45 PM

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Owner - parts of the US already have things in common with Calcutta

Specifically the bits in New York where the financial district lies

Both have become renowned for having black holes

E

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RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 4:49:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Naga

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Please tell me you're joking?

Please tell me YOU are joking. The meltdown we are going through is a result over regulation and governmental over control over the economy. They (politicians) tried to treat it like their personal bonsai tree instead of letting it regulate itself.

Really? Over-regulation?
Is that why we have Bernanke, Bush, Paulson, and McCain, all historic deregulators now calling for more government regulation?

quote:

Now we have Obama talking about taking all the motivation out of the investment market. No wonder the market is crashing! He wants to tax successful investors by removing 75% of their profits. As if this is the work of intelligence and experience? His redistribution of wealth scheme will further tank our economy, if he allowed to take the presidency.

So, if I understand what you just said, you believe Obama is proposing a 75% capital gains tax?????????????????????????????????

quote:

While I will agree that there is selfishness in the private sector, you will never get rid of it. You have to use it as a tool. And when you do, the entire market is successful, not just the wealthy, who I might point out are taking obscene risks when the invest their own money. When they profit, everyone profits. This is why Reagan and Bush were so successful in bring down unemployment, lowering income and capital gains taxes, inheritance taxes, etc. If Bush could only have stuck to his guns and cut spending instead rubber stamping the democrats' massive spending, he would have gone down in recent history as one of the greats.

Exactly what massive Democratic spending plans did he rubberstamp? You mean things like the Medicare drug benefit, which was proposed by Bush and passed by a Republican Congress. The Republicans, in case you haven't been paying attention, have controlled the White House for almost 8 years and Congress for almost 12 of the last 14 years. The massive spending falls on their shoulders.

Bush came into office with a budget surplus. The worst economic problem we had at the time was deciding what to do with the extra money. He has run a deficit in every single year he has been in office. In doing so he has managed to double the national debt in less than 8 years. Think about that for a minute. The total debt this country has accumulated since its founding has been doubled under Bush's two terms.

Which, believe it or not, happened with Reagan too. That's the wonderful thing about these supply-side economic theories. You can do great by increasing your debt and everything just seems fine. Until the bills come due. Guess what's happening to our economy right now?

(in reply to Naga)

RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 4:55:41 PM

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Well, since Obama expressed support prior to the House Vote to reward failure with 700 billion dollars, it's not all that big of a stretch to find that his tax plan punishes success.

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RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 4:59:44 PM

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They don't infuriate me mike, you must be projecting. It takes a lot to get me angry, and a slick politician isn't capable of that. His words do concern me though, I don't want someone stealing on my behalf - and I know that someone who is willing to do that isn't fit to work for the dog pound, much less lead the nation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So he said some hot button words Sanity....words that apparently infuriate you.....here's a link for you Obama.org/tax plan....read it I have and it works for me.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 10/16/2008 5:00:11 PM >

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RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 5:02:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

That doesn't make any sense. McCain could cut taxes and so long as he cut spending too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
McCain will have to pay for his plan to cut taxes somehow, unless you really believe that it's possible to get something for nothing.

Exactly! It doesn't make ANY sense.

Because, other than trimming earmarks, which account for only a miniscule portion of the budget, McCain has not proposed any spending cuts. He has, in fact, even supported certain spending increases.

Makes no sense at all.

And the truth is, McCain wants to SKYROCKET taxes, with his new, additional taxes on company provided health benefits.

Me, I'm not comfortable with his new taxes.

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RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 5:02:23 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Except what Obama's raising taxes for isn't to pay any bills, it's to "spread the wealth around."

He wants to play Robin Hood for four years. He wants to be "popular" while spending other people's money to get there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You just can't spend 800 billion on a war...and 700 billion on the economy... and who knows how many billion on healthcare and not raise taxes.

That’s about $11,000 per tax payer without the healthcare.

People have to realize we must pay our bills as a Nation...that means TAXES...I pay my bills…how about you.

It is stupid for McCain...and was idiot for Bush to think they could spend money like water and not raise taxes.

At least Obama understands you must raise somebody’s taxes to pay for the stupidity of the past.

Butch

Well then what is McCain's plan to pay off our obligations?...

Butch

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 5:07:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

MBMBN -

say I pay someone $20,000-00 and they have taxes of 25%, $5000-00 to pay on that - they are left with $15,000-00

if their tax liability falls to 10%, then I can pay them $17,000-00, they pay 10% $1700-00, and are left with $15,300-00
this is not the idea of this current proposal, but its the sort of way that evil small business owners like me think

meanwhile the business has saved 5 x $3300-00 on salary costs = $16,500-00, which is all extra for me to draw on to compensate for my increase in taxes - this doesnt reduce my revenue, though it does impact the profits of the company

whilst the company doesnt pay the employees taxes directly - it does, indirectly in the form of the initial salary

E

Nice in theory but you are neglecting the reality that if you cut an employee's wages to match a tax decrease he is not likely to say "gee, that's swell because I still have more take-home pay". Instead he is likely to take a job with your competitor who has not cut wages.

You are then left with having to hire and train a new employeee. Depending on the complexity of the job, your training costs may mitigate or exceed any savings you make in payroll expense.

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RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 5:08:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

They don't infuriate me mike, you must be projecting. It takes a lot to get me angry, and a slick politician isn't capable of that. His words do concern me though, I don't want someone stealing on my behalf - and I know that someone who is willing to do that isn't fit to work for the dog pound, much less lead the nation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So he said some hot button words Sanity....words that apparently infuriate you.....here's a link for you Obama.org/tax plan....read it I have and it works for me.

Slavemike is having a hard time understanding the flaw of "fighting discrimination with discrimination" so you can't expect him to understand the flawed principle of "punishing success".

As someone who qualifies in the low income tax bracket and would benefit from it greatly, I am opposed to on the grounds of principle.

I don't want anyone else to pick up my percentage of the cost of this country and certainly don't need or want a handout, because I haven't reached a point in my life where I have achieved a large degree of financial success.

And when I get to that point, I certainly don't want anyone negating the value of my achievements by telling me I NEED to share the wealth of my hard earned success.

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RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 5:20:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You didn't pay attention to the debate last night then. John McCain proposed starting with an immediate freeze in all government spending increases.....

No, I think you're not paying attention.

How does a freeze in spending provide the money to cover a tax decrease?

Let's say your monthly expenses are $4,000 and your take-home pay is $4,000. Then your company gets bought out and the new owners decrease your monthly take-home to $3000. Are you going to say "well, I'll just freeze my spending at $4,000 and everything will be OK"?

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RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 5:25:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

They don't infuriate me mike, you must be projecting. It takes a lot to get me angry, and a slick politician isn't capable of that. His words do concern me though, I don't want someone stealing on my behalf - and I know that someone who is willing to do that isn't fit to work for the dog pound, much less lead the nation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So he said some hot button words Sanity....words that apparently infuriate you.....here's a link for you Obama.org/tax plan....read it I have and it works for me.

Slavemike is having a hard time understanding the flaw of "fighting discrimination with discrimination" so you can't expect him to understand the flawed principle of "punishing success".

As someone who qualifies in the low income tax bracket and would benefit from it greatly, I am opposed to on the grounds of principle.

I don't want anyone else to pick up my percentage of the cost of this country and certainly don't need or want a handout, because I haven't reached a point in my life where I have achieved a large degree of financial success.

And when I get to that point, I certainly don't want anyone negating the value of my achievements by telling me I NEED to share the wealth of my hard earned success.

MadRabbit while your concern for my cognitive reasoning prowess is touching.please don't for a minute feel any need to worry about me.There is not a theory or a problem set you could come up with that my quick and agile mind would have any problem understanding
You make the mistake of so many from your side of the aisle,you believe if we on this side could just understand the things you do,we would see them in the same light.....there are complexities and shades of grey you have yet to devine .As soon as you can break the hold of right wing talk radio,and see the double talk and the misdirection for what it is...you too will see the light.Again I will ask you,though I find your concern touching....lose no sleep over me.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 5:28:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
There is not a theory or a problem set you could come up with that my quick and agile mind would have any problem understanding

Awesome! So we both understand you want to fight discrimination with discrimination and punish success!

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to slvemike4u)

RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 5:30:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
There is not a theory or a problem set you could come up with that my quick and agile mind would have any problem understanding

Awesome! So we both understand you want to fight discrimination with discrimination and punish success!

I have no clue what you do or don't understand,and I would not want to hazard a guess based on your postings here....just saying.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to MadRabbit)

RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' - 10/16/2008 5:31:29 PM

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Turns out Joe owes $1200 in back taxes, and is (1) in no position to purchase a business and (2) comes nowhere close to the $250,000 threshold.

And, he'd have to earn $250,000 AFTER paying his bills, employees, etc.

He could also take advantage of Obama's tax credit for businesses creating new jobs.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

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