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RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 4:58:58 PM

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From: Tamaris
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Just a question for those that want a gun for personal protection ; Have you ever been in a situation where your life was threatened by force of others, I mean, real life, someone held you up at weapon point or similar ?

I ask this, as I feel the desire for guns might well be an action of paranoia in response to a what if situation. How often do the what if situations occur, in real life, know anyone wo has been in that situation?

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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(in reply to Kailen)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 4:59:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

Hey MadRabbit....thats always been my belief. The gun control groups will never stop until they get full disarmament. When the the "Brady bunch" got the Brady Bill passed, they did not fold up shop and go home. They continued pushing for further "sensible" gun control measures. People complain that gun groups like the NRA don't want to ever give an inch....and there's a reason for that!! The gun banners won't ever just take a victory and quit the fight. They keep going and going, so groups like the NRA understand that you have to dig your heels in and not give an inch. While you might believe that victory in the recent heller case would end this gun control nonsense, the truth is, the new tactic now will be taxing guns and ammo to the point of unattainability by the vast majority of the public. The battle is not over, and I don't see an end in sight.

...the problem with this is that then neither side can perceive a sensible middle ground. This makes both positions wrong. As i've stated earlier in this thread and often in others......reality is analogue, not digital. People of good faith on both sides of the equation need to take off the blinkers and find that middle ground. Well, middle-ish ground anyway. While some posters characterise any attempt to find a sane weapon policy as either too liberal or too draconian (depending on what side of the mythical fence they see themselves on) then the truth is the loser.
Clearly, there is a historical cultural imperative in the US driving the right to bear arms. It deserves respect. Equally as clearly there is a pragmatic imperative that some weapon systems ought not to be in civilian hands. Where we draw that line is a sensible weapons policy and certainly an area to debate honestly. Insisting that it's all or nothing is not a sensible weapons policy.

(in reply to Joenextdoor)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:00:28 PM

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No, my life has never been threatened directly by someone else, like at gunpoint. I imagine most of us here can say the same. Those of us whose lives were threatened at gunpoint aren't here to give their opinion though.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:00:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Just a question for those that want a gun for personal protection ; Have you ever been in a situation where your life was threatened by force of others, I mean, real life, someone held you up at weapon point or similar ?

Several times

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There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:01:51 PM

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Stating the obvious, therein lies the problem. What criminal cares about what the law says? So no law can be written to take guns out of the hands of criminals, because no criminal will listen to the law.

Or, if we want to split hairs, taking the gun out of the hands of a criminal is quite simple. Remove his/her thumb and trigger finger. A criminal first has to own a gun to have one taken. Preventing a gun from getting into the hands of a criminal is the tricky one...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

Maybe I am misunderstanding your post. I am simply saying that pie in the sky thoughts like "armed robbers shouldn't be allowed to have guns" really will never get one gun away from a criminal. Laws are written in a much more complicated fashion. I want to know what law could possibly be written that would take a gun out of the hands of a criminal, without impacting my right to own them?

(in reply to Joenextdoor)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:02:07 PM

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*rolls eyes*

The Internet, where reality equals personal fiction.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/13/2008 5:03:04 PM >

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:02:33 PM

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The reason gun ownership is a "sanctification" in America is easy. We came here to this country and had to fight for our lives against the natives. We pioneered westward and a gun was the difference between life and death, both in protection, and in the search for food. Lastly, its the armed citizen that rose up and fought the King for our freedom. The founding fathers saw fit to include that cherished right in the Bill of Rights to the Constitution. People in other countries who have not shared the American experience can probably never understand, just as we could never fully understand them.

(in reply to Joenextdoor)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:04:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
You involve yourself in every single gun thread that pops up and question why Americans feel so strongly about their 2nd Amendment rights.

Incidentally, erin... that's because I live here: I have the right to. Will you remember what this thread was about? It wasn't a 'for/against guns' kind of affair. It implied the new president was going to take away your rights. When clearly, he won't.

Yes kitten, I've pretty much stayed on track where this thread has gone. Certainly I wasn't trying to antagonize or poke fun by asking where I could get nuclear submarines or any other such silliness.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:04:09 PM

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You need to buy a history book or several.

(in reply to Joenextdoor)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:04:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Just a question for those that want a gun for personal protection ; Have you ever been in a situation where your life was threatened by force of others, I mean, real life, someone held you up at weapon point or similar ?

I ask this, as I feel the desire for guns might well be an action of paranoia in response to a what if situation. How often do the what if situations occur, in real life, know anyone wo has been in that situation?

Not personally, but given the number of friends I had in Memphis who were mugged at gun point, it's the result of good luck.

I own cheaper non-lethal methods of self defense for situations where the odds of being able to handle it physically are stacked against me.

I don't consider it to be a pressing issue currently where I live so I am waiting to invest in a hand gun in light of more pressing financial needs.

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(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:05:14 PM

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I've had a couple, though luckily not involving guns.

With that said, having a weapon on your person in that sort of situation is a bit pointless, because you still need to draw your weapon. The person threatening you already has their weapon drawn and ready to use.

Basically if it's not premeditated, owning a weapon isn't going to do you much good. You're better off learning a few martial arts or familiarising yourself with the dirtier tactics of street fighting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Just a question for those that want a gun for personal protection ; Have you ever been in a situation where your life was threatened by force of others, I mean, real life, someone held you up at weapon point or similar ?

I ask this, as I feel the desire for guns might well be an action of paranoia in response to a what if situation. How often do the what if situations occur, in real life, know anyone wo has been in that situation?

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:05:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

*rolls eyes*

The Internet, where reality equals personal fiction.

You know what....screw you. How dare you have the audacity to call me a liar? Go hug a fucking tree or save a whale or some other such shit.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:06:35 PM

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I don't need any history book. I had enough of that in school. As I said in a previous post, those whose side has no rational response will resort to silliness.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:06:57 PM

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Agreed. I rather thought it was the natives who had to fight for their lives...

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:07:47 PM

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KS

...i used to be very much the same in that i had a visceral dislike of guns and couldn't understand why any culture would tolerate them being so freely available.
On another forum i voiced this opinion, and late one night got into a very interesting voice chat with an American gentleman. He asked me to think of something that, if taken away from British people, would constitute a loss of identity....a cultural artefact that could be said to define a Brit. i thought a bit and suggested football (the one where you actually kick the ball with the foot, not the American wimpy version of rugby

) .........then he suggested that i see gun ownership in the USa as being the same sort of thing. It's a part of the culture that transcends logic.......it's a cultural artefact. So, as i'm someone that does my best to defend anyones right to cultural artefacts, i find myself forced to back away from my previous anti-gun position.
Given that they will remain part of US culture the only question left is how to make sure they're as safely held as possible........

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:10:39 PM

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I have always said the natives were wronged in the way they were treated. However, my post was about the American experience, and in that light, not someone's twisting of my post, I say again, the colonists needed guns to protect themselves.

(in reply to Kailen)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:11:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Just a question for those that want a gun for personal protection ; Have you ever been in a situation where your life was threatened by force of others, I mean, real life, someone held you up at weapon point or similar ?

I ask this, as I feel the desire for guns might well be an action of paranoia in response to a what if situation. How often do the what if situations occur, in real life, know anyone wo has been in that situation?

I wonder why you feel the need for the same sort of protuberance most commonly used in rapes, I wonder if perhaps you are a latent rapist. Or how about, perverts use big lenses to peek inside of others homes, why do you need the same sort of lens as a pervert? Or how about, why do you like to beat defenseless woman?

Lets put it this way, in Japan they have crime and guns are illegal. They spend millions (perhaps more) on fake guns. Since they aren't shooting anyone or any of the other things my fellow liberals whine and snivel about, what is the attraction? Probably the same I have for almost anything mechanical. I have about 15 cool old mechanical watches, I drag home weird old machines, I almost bought a perfectly mint 1930's key making machine that was only $30 but it was too heavy, I also like guns for much the same reason, I like machineguns because they are so complicated and I enjoy the history of them. Things like the German machinegun in WWI was invented by an American and the British one invented by a German, or the fact that the two modern machinguns used by the US army trace some of their design elements to a Mormon who invented the Colt 1911. I could go on but the point is clear.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:13:45 PM

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LOL

If it doesn't involve two wheels and an engine, it's not a sport (personal opinion and opinions are like assholes), personally I think England would be better without football.

But anyway, to clarify my earlier post, I'm not against gun ownership. I think gun ownership should be regulated heavily, but I have no issue with them being sold. I'm not one of those who thinks that gun ownership should be made completely illegal. As I said before, there's no sense to it. That just means the only person who will want to own a gun is a criminal. The direct problem with that is you then have a scenario where the criminals have guns, and the innocent who wish to protect themselves have nothing to defend against it with.

In short, you give the power to the criminals by making weapons illegal.

(in reply to philosophy)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:14:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

KS

Given that they will remain part of US culture the only question left is how to make sure they're as safely held as possible........

Shoot anyone who mishandles one?

(in reply to philosophy)

RE: Gun Sales Up Since Obama Election Victory - 11/13/2008 5:16:28 PM

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Now, now mist...... you guys simply have to learn to get along...

Now let's explore this idea of whale huggin' and stump breaking things up the shitter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

*rolls eyes*

The Internet, where reality equals personal fiction.

You know what....screw you. How dare you have the audacity to call me a liar? Go hug a fucking tree or save a whale or some other such shit.

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to mistoferin)

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