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ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Yelling can be abusive, in certain contexts, as can breaking things, as can hitting, as can lodging threats.  It depends on context and it depends on what the observers to that behavior can handle.  And just because someone can't handle something you think they should, does not mean they are less of a person, or less worthy, or "too weak."  We all have different thresholds.  We all are affected differently by different things.  Things that might upset you, for example, might roll off my shoulder as no big deal.  But where the hell is my compassion and expanded thinking if I point and say you are wrong for feeling as you do?  That is, essentially, what you are doing to those of us who are finding potentials for abuse in the things you are not.

Personally, if the person I'm with yells and breaks things over financial issues, or clumsiness issues, or any other issue for that matter, I'm going to feel scared in that environment, and I'm going to lose respect, thinking this person doesn't handle anger and frustration very well.  I'll probably refer him to some really good books on the subject, and find him to be overall a rather unhappy person.  My former owner yelled a lot about things I found unnecessary.  I always told him it made me feel frightened when he did, and that I was concerned for his peace of mind, as it didn't seem to exist.  When he would get that way I would shut down, become extremely quiet, and it would take some work on his part to make me feel safe enough to come out from my emotional barriers.  I wasn't afraid he would physically assault me; I was feeling emotionally and spiritually assualted in that environment, whether it had to do with me or not.  The difference between what he did and what I am seeing in these threads is that he recognized it as abuse and chose to continue anyway, rather than to say I was wrong for feeling assaulted.  Instead, it was our understanding that he could behave abusively with me if he wanted to, and, at times, he did.  He never  hid the fact of what he was doing.  He acknowledged it and said it would continue.  I accepted it as part of the bigger picture that was our relationship.  If he put me down for feeling what I did, I may have responded differently.

There is a line in my favorite piece of writing (Desiderata, by Max Ehrmann):  "Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit."   You have been asking (in the other thread) for all sorts of clinical papers that define abuse and its progression.  Why?  I did a Google search and found all sorts of things that support what years of counseling have already taught me - assault to the body/mind/heart/spirit is abuse.  To stand hard in defense of that, demonstrates, in my opinion, an unwillingness to look beyond one's own behavior and persona and the effects it may have on others.  It is to stand in place with little regard for others.  And while I know that sometimes people throw the "abuse" word around as an excuse for not looking at their own person and possible issues with the ability to reason, I haven't seen that addressed here - I have seen people genuinely speak of their own histories with abuse, and those stories brushed aside for lack of "clinical evidence."  Is is not enough that someone might feel emotionally unsafe?  Should that be reason enough for someone to want to evaluate his/her own behavior in the situation?  Or is is more important to stand firm that "My behavior is ok and the rest of you are wrong."  ??

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ORIGINAL: agirl

FR

Just as love is something you feel, so is abuse. You can view someone's behaviour toward you as *loving and caring*, and you can view someone's behaviour as *abusive and unreasonable*.

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ORIGINAL: missturbation

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It's not enough in my book, for ME to feel unhappy or emotionally 'unsafe' , to call a guy an abuser, no.

agirl

 
This is why  would say again abuse is a relative term. What is abuse for one is not abuse for another.
Personally i would say something causing me long term unhappiness could be very damaging. Someone making me feel unemotionally unsafe is damaging.
Now surely anything that is causing us damage is abusing us?

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ORIGINAL: cpK69

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ORIGINAL: agirl

FR

Just as love is something you feel, so is abuse. You can view someone's behaviour toward you as *loving and caring*, and you can view someone's behaviour as *abusive and unreasonable*.

There is a specific situation that I have focused on to gain my perspective. The incident happened when I was young (6-8).
 
Mom was a god, if not God, in my little world back then. To this day I can’t describe the emotions I feel when I think of that experience. Watching my mother shred to pieces my favorite toy; a doll that was my best friend at the time. There goes an arm, there’s a leg… her head, all sent flying, in my mother's rage. The dining room filled with stuffing, floating through the air, until it settled on the floor. There I stood, horrified, my heart in my throat, unable to breath, speak. Tears streaming down my face….
 
Long story short; I was able to understand back then that she had been excessive, and forgave her for her part in the whole ordeal a long time ago. However, it still bothers me to some extent, though much less now. Not because of what Mom said or did that day, but because of how I perceived myself because of what she said and did. I doubt she has any idea of the implications I placed on myself.
 
Kim

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ORIGINAL: agirl

When you're a child, there are many things that make little sense and cause hurt. Most of us hurt our children in some way or other. A lot of people dont get the chance to revisit these situations as an adult and ask why.

I have been an arse as a Mama myself, so can quite easily understand the pressures and frustrations that mine had, considering she had MUCH more to contend with than I did. My own daughter has told me that she never understood how hard, how much strength it took to be a good mother until she had her own child.

I've actually not spoken to a single mother that hasn't a spiteful act under their belt that they regret.

agirl

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ORIGINAL: agirl


Isn't that an indication that you're with someone that isn't *good for you'?..It might take a goodly while to realise these things but people cleave to one another for all sorts of reasons.

Why's he being a pig......Why am I accepting him being a pig?

Inside a relationship, especially one that's fairly longheld, there's a lot to untangle and consider before the * I'm off* clause. It's rarely EVER cut and dried.

It's not enough in my book, for ME to feel unhappy or emotionally 'unsafe' , to call a guy an abuser, no.

agirl

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

If a group of men were standing around a car engine putzing around and shooting the shit. Then one busts his knuckles while turning a wrench, throws that wrench across the shop and knocks over a jar holding bolts and sends it crashing to the floor, the other two men are not likely to either be scared or intimidated. Even though they may raise an eyebrow and think (what a moron) to themself. Definately not abuse nor providing a bad example for the audience to emmulate.

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ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

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ORIGINAL: agirl


Isn't that an indication that you're with someone that isn't *good for you'?..It might take a goodly while to realise these things but people cleave to one another for all sorts of reasons.

Why's he being a pig......Why am I accepting him being a pig?

Inside a relationship, especially one that's fairly longheld, there's a lot to untangle and consider before the * I'm off* clause. It's rarely EVER cut and dried.

It's not enough in my book, for ME to feel unhappy or emotionally 'unsafe' , to call a guy an abuser, no.

agirl

There are all sorts of studies that point to all sorts of evidence that shows why people remain in abusive situations.  When one no longer has the strength to recognize or do anything about it...when one has been so chiseled down he/she feels the abuse is deserved...it takes a hell of a lot to say "OK, I'm the nit here" and leave. 

If you feel emotionally unsafe, yes by all means leave.  That responsibility is ultimately yours.  But a dog that runs from an owner who beats it doesn't make the owner immune to being called an abuser.   The responsibility of accountability is not limited solely to the person who is directly affected.  At least in my world, I prefer to hang around people that don't wish to inflict harm, and who are conscientious of when they do.  I'm not off the hook for receiving it, nor are they off the hook for giving it.

Many of my comments in my above post are a result of another thread in which a girl DID leave because she felt mistreated, and many of the men decided what she was experiencing wasn't mistreatment at all.  Fancy that.

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ORIGINAL: agirl

The definition of 'abuse' really is subjective and dependant on the situation. I might not feel abused by a table-bashing giant but obviously some would.

agirl

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Ahh but do you have personal experience of having a loaded gun held to your head by a drunken twat?

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ORIGINAL: IronBear

Ahh but do you have personal experience of having a loaded gun held to your head by a drunken twat? It is a scary experience and is almost guaranteed to give you nightmares. 

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ORIGINAL: cpK69

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ORIGINAL: agirl

The definition of 'abuse' really is subjective and dependant on the situation. I might not feel abused by a table-bashing giant but obviously some would.

agirl

Spring boarding again…
 
I’ve seen, what I consider, a lot of self-hate and self-abuse in similar actions committed by my previous SOs. (Not saying that is the case in all situations.)
 
The one that used to punch the light bulb hanging in the living room, throw beer bottles against the walls so they would break, swung and hit me with a cinder block (only once); was jealous that I had a family life outside of him, where he had none.
 
The one that held me against the chimney by my throat because when he got home from being out with his buddy from work, he found me at the bar located next to our apartment, also broke a piece of furniture that had been left in the apartment, belonging to someone else, over it. Not to mention a number of other incidences that would constitute abuse to many. All because he didn’t think he was desirable enough for me to want to go back, when I was allowed outside of his presence.
 
Kim

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ORIGINAL: agirl
Absolutely not.

There was a LONG list of things in that post that would have had me wending my way, the gun is almost surreal.

I've been treated incredibly well, by comparison, by the men in my life. I haven't expected much less, to be honest.

agirl

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ORIGINAL: agirl

Not quite *subtle* is it?

agirl

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin

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ORIGINAL: agirl
Absolutely not.

There was a LONG list of things in that post that would have had me wending my way, the gun is almost surreal.

I've been treated incredibly well, by comparison, by the men in my life. I haven't expected much less, to be honest.

agirl

Until you have actually been there you can't say what you would do. You can only think what you would like to see yourself do. It's not something that starts out that way. He and I had 8 years of the best relationship I have ever even seen prior to it's slow decline that began so benignly that it was almost imperceptible. 8 years of absolute Master/slave relationship. 8 years of absolute bliss. I would have never in my life thought I would be in the kind of relationship it became. I would have never thought I would have tolerated one single minute of the last three years of that relationship. But when you have invested that much and loved that hard...it is not something that is so easily walked away from. So yes, I know what you THINK you would do, but trust me when I tell you that you really have no idea what you would do.