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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 1:12:47 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Keep in mind folks we are only hearing ONE side of the story

ehhh back 20 years the Detroit clubs were full of drama and pettiness and rumors.  I see nothing has changed except the ppl involved.

That is prolly one of the leading reasons the scene here is so small for the population size.  I know that's why I left.  At some point you hope the infighting would stop.... 20 years and still going must be some kind of record.

So you wanna help the misguided dom.  Leave him alone. 

BadOne



One side of the story? Are you for real??? Ladyhib came here and told a story about the offender. Mistoferin came here and said she witnessed it too. Juliet came on and told her experience. How many sides do you need?


Uh luscious  you have to be joking!!!!!  The ONLY side I want to hear from now is the ACCUSED!
When I asked ladyhib in this thread about FIRST hand Knowledge not "stories" she never replied.

So UH yea like i said one side of the story

I've met, known and like jules I've known her for years.  I glanced at her post.  She has a opinion just like everyone else. 

BadOne



Opinion?

There's a significant difference between an opinion Sailing Bum and first hand experience. What is it you want from the accused? A rationale for what he's done? To hear his side of things? Or perhaps you're thinking you're going to get an apology? I've never once heard him apologize except when making further excuses for his behavior.

I tried to relate, without giving too much personal information what my experience was. I didn't have to do this. He's already been banned and I don't see that changing any time soon. However, what was important to me is for you and others who have been castigating LadyHib about her efforts to understand that this is not just one isolated incident but a whole slew of things that have gone on with no consequence for years and years and years.

And yet again, you have demonstrated precisely how this has happened. My experiences have been relegated to an opinion to again be discounted by people who actually know me and I THOUGHT realize that I am not a vindictive person but sometimes, enough is enough.

I am saddened that it all had to come to this. At the same time,  I am looking forward to being able to attend some functions without always having to look over my shoulder.

I truly just wish that it wouldn't have taken so long. There's been a lot of damage along the way.

juliet

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 1:17:07 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		History of drama from the people who have first hand experience with this man?  I consider the source, try to be fair and look at all sides... but when LH and the other's that have said they have experience with this man, I believe them.  I wouldn't jail the guy... I couldn't.  But I sure would take seriously their claims!  And not insult them in the process.



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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 1:32:21 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		SteelofUtah: See juliet, that is what bothers me, not your actions, not that people walked but that it took so long for anyone to want to make it an issue.

DarcyandTheDark:  
I have read the thread and honestly just do not get it.  If you are holding a party, just ban the guy.  This is obviously not a 'gossip' thing the guy is subject to... but 10 years?  Y'all left it 10 years?
That part alone - whether male or female - I find staggering.
 
DarcyandTheDark: But I still don't get why it took 10 years for anyone to do anything.
 
 
To all of you: Welcome to our world.  

juliet

 

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 1:35:20 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		jules,

Like I said I glanced at your post re your first hand did NOT read the rest of it.  I got the impression from your view the guy was "creepy"  Just so we understand each other.  Your saying because I know, like and respect you.  I shouldn't give the accused a opportunity to tell his side of the story.  Please tell me jules that you are NOT saying that.

Why is it so hard to understand that to make any decision you should have as many facts as you can.  For all I know the accused may deny they were even there or they may admit to it.  BUT I would not know until I spoke to them.

See folks this is "exactly" what I am talking about the "mob mentality"  3 ppl said it so it must be true.  And I am NOT saying it isn't.  All I am saying is the accused to my way of thinking has a right to be heard before a decision is made.  SHEESH

Im tired of having to explain how to be fair.  Look it up

BadOne



< Message edited by SailingBum -- 4/9/2009 1:43:26 PM >

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 1:41:47 PM   
Lockit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

jules,

Like I said I glanced at your post re your first hand did NOT read the rest of it.  I got the impression from your view the guy was "creepy"  Just so we understand each other.  Your saying because I know, like and respect you.  I shouldn't give the accused a opportunity to tell his side of the story.  Please tell me jules that you are NOT saying that.

Why is it so hard to understand that to make any decision you should have as many facts as you can.  For all I know the accused may deny they were even there or they may admit to it.  BUT I would not know until I spoke to them.

See folks this is "exactly" what I am talking about the "mob mentality"  3 ppl said it so it must be true.  And I am NOT saying it isn't
All I am saying is the accused to my way of thinking has a right to be heard before a decision is made.  SHEESH

BadOne



Yes and glancing at a post and then commenting on it by way of calling it an opinion rather than first hand experience from someone you know... isn't all the facts.  Nor a great statement on how you view this person known to you.

The accused is standing against at least three people, one you know.  This isn't a court case.  It is a case of making safe the activities done by people in a group and someone should have listened to them far sooner.

Guilty enough to put in jail... maybe not by what is seen here... but there is enough information that he should be monitored or taken to task for what is claimed by many according to three persons, known and respected here and there.  The guy is now banned... yet you still want to talk to him to get his side.  Hummmm

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 1:44:54 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
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Status: offline 		You should read it Sailing Bum... Nothing quite like simply scanning one side while "needing" to hear the other side - in the interests of fairness y'know.

Hear both sides... I kinda wish you would listen for a while to ALL sides... including the numerous numerous first person situations around here.. but then... while you're simply glancing at one side while waiting anxiously to hear the other you're not really around are you? I mean other than what goes on in this forum?

You don't HAVE to believe me. No one is twisting your arm. It's nothing new. People haven't believed us for years... you're just doing more of the same. Really. We're pretty used to that process. It's the new folks who continue to be shocked.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 4/9/2009 1:47:57 PM >

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 1:49:06 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		Legally the accused should get to tell his side of it.

Practically if Lady H says it walks like a duck, Juliet says it quacks like a duck, and others have seen it swim like a duck, I would definitely start looking for the duck poop so I wouldn't be stepping in it.

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 4/9/2009 1:51:18 PM >

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 2:11:56 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

Well, I can tell you that if LadyHib does not, I certainly do – 10 YEARS of direct knowledge. And NO I didn’t just sit back and take it. There were MANY MANY times that I and others on my behalf tried to do something about it  - to get him to just leave me alone.
quote:

“Has anyone ever had problems with harassment at public parties.” No names were mentioned; no details were provided prior to asking this question. And out of a room full of women, only 2 did not raise their hands as having had this happen. The women were shocked. They looked back and forth to each other and finally a name was spoken. EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE WOMEN WHO HAD THEIR HANDS RAISED NODDED BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL TALKING ABOUT THE SAME PERSON. And yes, I was there and yes, I had my hand raised as well, so this is not just a story told second or third hand.

 
quote:

LadyHib is but one person in a long line of people who have attempted to give this person leeway, to help him see what he’s doing, to find some way of dealing with his actions. I do wish you knew her other than just through her posts.  She is NOT trying to find a way to get rid of this person. If that was the case, she’d not have posted at all. The deed is done and he’s been banned from some functions around town.  You have to understand that she’s just doing what so many have done before – and that’s to try to help him reach some resolution of this problem in a way that helps him, not ostracizes him. And no, she does NOT have to actually LIKE him in order to do this.

quote:

 
To all of you: Welcome to our world.  

juliet

 
Did you go to the police?  That is my first question.
Secondly - as much as you are all sticking up for each other and blaming the old boys network - I have to ask... where the fuck are you all?  You are grown women, women who have knowledge of a person who pesters yourselves and others and you want to help him?
 
6 weeks, help maybe... 6 months - offer help maybe...  6years?
You put up with this for 6 years - no 10?  No juliet, your world wouldn't welcome me - and I certainly wouldn't support or exist in a world like that.
And I am really surprised you all did.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 2:52:20 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		jules,

As I said I was part of the Detroit community 20 years ago.  So you see I have 1st hand knowledge at how fucked up the ppl were back then.  Uh I decided NOT to be a partly due to the backstabbing clique that was present back then.  If you got a bad rep the rumors and innuendo would fly.  It looks like the only thing that has changed are the ppl.

Darcy,

You clearly dont get it.  It's far easier to blame someone else. In this case it's ONLY the male doms.  Next week it maybe be the fem doms.  Next month we can blame the slaves so noone feels left out.

After 10 years suddenly it's a problem that needs to be acted on.   Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?  Hell Ive had dogs that have not lived that long sheesh. 

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 4/9/2009 2:55:55 PM >

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 3:16:16 PM   
sirsholly


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From: Quietville
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quote:

jules,

As I said I was part of the Detroit community 20 years ago. So you see I have 1st hand knowledge at how fucked up the ppl were back then. Uh I decided NOT to be a partly due to the backstabbing clique that was present back then. If you got a bad rep the rumors and innuendo would fly. It looks like the only thing that has changed are the ppl.
and yet you say you want to hear the Doms side? Why bother? It seems you have just totally dismissed what she said

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 3:45:29 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		that's a great one holly really it is.  Ive said all along be fair and hear both sides and getting heat from ppl cuz of it.  So now you accuse me of not being fair.  hows that for twisted logic???

BadOne


_____________________________

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 3:54:37 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark


Did you go to the police?  That is my first question.
Secondly - as much as you are all sticking up for each other and blaming the old boys network - I have to ask... where the fuck are you all?  You are grown women, women who have knowledge of a person who pesters yourselves and others and you want to help him?
 
6 weeks, help maybe... 6 months - offer help maybe...  6years?
You put up with this for 6 years - no 10?  No juliet, your world wouldn't welcome me - and I certainly wouldn't support or exist in a world like that.
And I am really surprised you all did.
 
the.dark.

 
And believe me the.dark, those of us who have wished for more support would welcome you with open arms.
 
For the record, I said "She is truly doing more than I’d ever bother with anymore. As far as I’m concerned, his behavior should have a natural consequence and banning is precisely that. I personally would have preferred that he realize what he’s doing a LONG time ago so that it wouldn’t have reached this juncture. But I also have to say that since it has, I’m very pleased to see the hosts of these events finally step up and do what they can.
 
This is not a witch hunt that has suddenly and spontaneously begun after 10 years, but rather something that has grown to outrageous and thoroughly unacceptable proportions. This thread was really just one person asking a group of men who label themselves "dominants" what THEY would do about something like this - how THEY would respond. For my money, the situation had been handled and that was that. However, LadyHib really only asked for ideas in how to reach him - if that was indeed possible.
 
My post was made, not to lambast the person but to help others reading this understand that there was more to the issue here than simply someone with some difficulties interacting in social situations and that LadyHib was NOT looking to try to garner support for the banishment but rather to seek out answers to helping him - regardless if it was possible or not. Personally, as far as I'm concerned, he created the mess he's found himself in and there are only two things that will change it - time and him coming to understand what he's done. The first, we have plenty of. The second, I'm not at all sure will happen - after all, it hasn't happened yet, regardless of who has done what to try to get that understanding to occur and frankly, helping him is not on my list of things to do in the near future.
 
In the end, regardless of how long it took, what's good is that finally - FINALLY - people are listening and doing something about it. I'm not really concerned past that with assigning blame for anything else. It's counter-productive and makes this a bigger issue than it has to be.
 
juliet

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 4:04:21 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

If you got a bad rep the rumors and innuendo would fly. 



Which is why I believe no one has done anything sooner. Far too many people have been a target of that process and no one wants to do it to someone else. Unfortunately, there came a point in which these weren't rumors and innuendo. However, in the effort to "be fair" people in charge of the events who could do the most good were struck by the old idea of "you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Personally, while everyone is lulled into doing nothing simply because the person involved is a dominant, there are a ton of us who dearly wished - and still wish - that same sense of "fairness" was enacted in our favor somewhere along the line - even if we are submissives.

juliet

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 5:04:51 PM   
SavageryofSin


Posts: 4
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Status: offline 		Show some self control. By majority these are people who claim to be dominant, and you are bickering back and forth like preening peacocks, to the point where you have to scroll pages to find any reference to the original question.

I agree that it is not "fair", and that people are dancing around the subject because it is a Dom. As the original poster stated, and is clearly evident, a submissive given a bad reputation is handled far harshly than a dominant. The reason girls are not coming forward over this accused person, is because of the reputation it would garnish them. A "bad" slave seems to have little issue getting banned, or snubbed. Admittedly I have limited experience with group scenes, I don't really enjoy them for this very reason. However, those few scenes I have been involved in always have one like this, usually an unattractive older male who desires to find something warm to wrap around certain parts of his body. Show some back bone people, why lie to someone about an event? Tell them they are not welcome, especially if you are in control of such an event. If you do not like someone, and what they do, do not associate with them. Sometimes you have to act the way you wish you were, cut away this cancer. You do not lame a horse before a race, why would you let a male because he is "Dom" harm a potentially valuable submissive? Or how could you, as a proclaimed dominant, allow that to take place? Are you not suppose to be protective, nurturing, sheltering, as well as stern, controlling, and possessive? Punishment and reward is a far flung concept, punish him by making him deal with his reputation, should he change it then he would certainly be reward by being allowed within events at some point. To the people who say ignore him and it is his own business, what rational to this? We have all had dealings with a submissive who was damaged, physically, mentally, or emotionally (and sometimes a combination of them all) by a past "Dominant" who was nothing more than a twisted thing trying to get laid. Can you honestly say it does not upset you, insult you, that people claim to be part of the same lifestyle you are and behave that way?

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 5:22:38 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SavageryofSin

Show some self control. By majority these are people who claim to be dominant, and you are bickering back and forth like preening peacocks, to the point where you have to scroll pages to find any reference to the original question.



And your point is... ?

If you're getting lost in the shuffle, my suggestion would be pretty simple:

Keep up.

Stick around a while and you'll see that most of us have strong opinions about things and we don't always agree with each other. It's pretty much a given here. No harm; no foul. Oh.. and by the way, you'll also learn that threads develop a life of their own. Get used to it.

juliet



< Message edited by julietsierra -- 4/9/2009 5:23:01 PM >

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 5:25:18 PM   
SavageryofSin


Posts: 4
Joined: 3/24/2009
Status: offline 		You make my point, you give nothing to the discussion, but use a computer screen to shelter your jabs at one another. Discussing and disagreeing is one thing, this stupidity is just that.

< Message edited by SavageryofSin -- 4/9/2009 5:26:20 PM >

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 5:28:05 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
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From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

You make my point, you give nothing to the discussion,
personally i feel she gives a great deal to the discussion

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 5:33:31 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SavageryofSin

You make my point, you give nothing to the discussion, but use a computer screen to shelter your jabs at one another. Discussing and disagreeing is one thing, this stupidity is just that.


lol... goodness! I just got my little fingers slapped I guess. Believe it or not, we're not jabbing at each other. BadOne and I frequently don't agree on things. Sometimes I think he's an ass. Sometimes, he thinks I'm a bitch I'm sure. But both of us have known each other a long time now and can manage just fine to have an argument on a topic without taking pot-shots at each other - except within the confines of the topic we're discussing.

And then, there's you, who evidently feels it's necessary to reprimand people you don't even know for expressing their beliefs on a specific topic just because little you don't like it.

I guess I'd make a further suggestion to find a topic you DO like if our dialogue bothers you so much.

Pot...meet kettle.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 4/9/2009 5:41:19 PM >

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 5:51:34 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Thanks so much for speaking up in this thread, Juliet!  I will be so glad to see you and your master out at events again.

SailingBum, you wanted answers... and in one of my threads I said that I don't want to give outing details in a public forum.  If you like, you can contact Mr Thing and he will tell you all about how great he is.   I don't think that he reads the boards, but I don't want to give any identifying details. 

I'm not sorry that I tried to reach out here, because I DO get stuck with people coming to me with their issues, and crazy me, I try to help them in constructive ways.  Why have we tolerated this man's presence?   Read back on some of the posts---try the one where I'm called a meddling old biddy!---the consensus opinion is that if we cannot PROSECUTE, we should simply ignore.  "It doesn't affect ME, so it's not my problem."    "This is why I am not in the public scene."

Well, as a person who survived the backstabbing cliques of the last 20 years, some of us ARE in the public scene, and feel a certain amount of responsiblity for protecting the new and experienced alike who have problems.  PROSECUTE, you say?  So, Ms Elementary Schoolteacher or Ms Public Relations is going to go to the POLICE and file a complaint about... her unusual sexual practices.  Rape cases overturn the lives of those women who are unlucky enough to be attacked by strangers.  Can you imagine the destruction of family and career that could happen from attempting to prosecute?   I know I wouldn't do it, and  I am not known for backing down from fights. 

So, this guy is banned for awhile.  I expect that he will be all huffy and pout a bit.  Then... who knows.  But that isn't your problem is it?

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 5:51:51 PM   
SteelofUtah


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Status: offline 		Ahh Hell you're both Black.

Steel

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