RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom?

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 11:14:02 AM

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I am sitting here watching this play out and considering how this discussion has gone it seems very obvious to me just exactly how this situation has continued as long as it has. There have been women come on here who are long standing respected members of the Michigan lifestyle communities. They are women who are well known. They are women who have also spent a great deal of time contributing to these boards and have become respected posters here. But now that they are talking about and asking for advice on the best way to deal with a "problem dominant"....suddenly they have been reduced to being drama queens, have been said to have ulterior motives because they don't like someone, have been accused of trying to blackball someone. They have been chided and belittled.

Now they have made it clear that the "preferred prey" of this man has been those who are new. Well, imagine that if longtime, respected women can get so much venom thrown their way because they asked for help...what on earth might happen to a newbie who tried to stand up? No wonder they have such a hard time speaking out. No wonder they won't stand up for themselves. Especially when said man is confronted publicly he instantly becomes "Johnny on the Spot" with a charming and soul touching apology or explanation at the ready every time, filled with promises that it won't happen again. What newbie in their right mind would want to have to defend themselves, their fears or their very nature to the wolf pack? It has continued because it's just easier to steer clear than stand up and call attention to it...and yourself. Calling attention to yourself seems to quickly turn you into dinner.

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"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to julietsierra)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 11:24:04 AM

Posts: 5307
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From: St George Utah
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quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I assumed this guy was a Newb in the community but if he's been there for 10 years with this kind of behavior I have to ask why the community is only taking steps now?

I am sure some people might not have seen this but the steps that were taken are what I said SHOULD have been taken in the first place. Rather than pulling the passive agressing play go straight to him and say "Sorry you just aren't welcome here." and amazing as it is the guy was told to go away and now he's gone.

Steel

Precisely the question we, the submissives who've had to deal with this and with the underlying message that our concerns never warranted much more than a pat on the head have wondered for years.

What has changed in more recent times is the frequency and intensity of his actions until it reached a point where more and more of us started voting with our feet.

It's still not the best feeling in the world to know that in the end, what mattered most was that someone was going to lose some money. Nonetheless, action was taken and for that, I, for one, am grateful.

juliet

See juliet, that is what bothers me, not your actions, not that people walked but that it took so long for anyone to want to make it an issue.

I know Dominants often get the "Chest Thumper" Monikers and that more often than not Dominants run or organize most munches but more offten then not I see the willingness to walk up to someone and say "Hey, you're being an Asshat (Thank you Davan) and some of us would like to know why?"

I am removed from this particular group of people and am not even on the outside looking in, I'm sitting a world away and reading about it and making an image in my head, even with all that from what has been related, from what this man has done, why would anyone think this man was guidable? Teachable? Humble enough to change his ways?

Human Nature, and the reason why assholes get the girls more offten than not, it is working for them. Being a Jerk and getting everything you want, tell me if you could get away with it... wouldn't you? If you could REALLY tell everyone what you thought about them and still go about life in a comfortable fashion isn't that what you would do? I think lots of peoples only redeaming quality is that they can serve as a bad example. I do try to find as much tact as possible when dealing with such people and when tact is not possible I try to keep the damage under control and leave as little room for collateral damage as possible.

I've called people on thier shit when I felt it needed calling, I'll pull your covers if you're getting away with murder and no one else is willing to be frank. I will be bluntly honest and tell you just how I feel about something wheather you ask for it of not. HOWEVER it isn't my job to police the community, it isn't my job to get involved in your life unless you ask me to, and even when you ask me to I have to believe in your cause, and i'm not fighting for anyone other that you.

Perhaps this is where I may have left out some of my personal beliefs. I will no longer run over and play Captain Save-A-Hoe, however if I come to you or you come to me and relate a problem that I believe I am in the power of seriously changing your situation I will tell you what I am willing to do and I will go about doing it. I won't go beyond my means, I won't try to change someone or thier views, I will help the person move on to something better or at very least out of the situation that will only get worse. What I won't do it take it upon myself to get involved in making a problem worse. If you are being beaten I will offer to take you to a shelter and get help I may even put you up on my couch for a week or two until you can find a safer place to be. If someone is bothering you feel that your safety or physical comfort is in jeopardy then I will stay by you as long as I can and make it clear that you are otherwise engaged. I will remind you how to dial 911 for emergencies, I will help you in getting a protective order, I will even go so far as to confront the actions of the individual while you are standing there with me and find a reasonable outcome. But I don't take it upon myself to help someone who didn't ask me to nor will I help someone who has the ability to help themselves, I will do my best to guide them in the right direction but I will not remove the responsibility to preserve ones self from them. Some people need to learn not to be Doormats or Victims.

As grown-ups we are supposed to know how to walk away, or stand up for ourselves. In this Lifestyle you would think this would be obvious but so many people wait till someone else does something before even thinking about getting involved. the other side of the coin are those who want to save the world make everyone play nice and follow according to their own values. Why are we so over come with the two extremes and so lacking is just saying what needs to be said and moving on.

Steel

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(in reply to julietsierra)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 11:26:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

The club I go to allows sex. It is a members only club and you can not pay at the door.

Hmmmm...4 questions asked, one answered in a manner that refers to you and your situation but does not address the overall question asked.

Why do I not find this surprising?

Thats funny, you had highlighted my post. AND there are plenty of clubs like this around the country. the fact remains, if i want to playwith a stranger the only safe way is in public.

Edited to say: ok.there are other safe ways like safe calls and such. But if there was an offending crazy person wanting to cry wolf later they would have to explain what they were doing at a bdsm club and that they signed paperwork and have witnesses that nothing non consensual happened.

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 4/9/2009 11:39:54 AM >

_____________________________

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Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 11:54:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra
But then... you're just doing what everyone else has done throughout the years... devalued what the submissives are saying because even though you don't know this person, SURELY, you have a better handle on the things that have gone down than they do.

WRONG - However, and this is purely based upon the information coming from this thread, I have "devalued" the 'DOMINANTS'. If the representation includes even a little reality they, and the hosts of the events who choose to lie about dates instead of dealing with this person, "devalued" the submissives involved. It doesn't matter if the submissive was submissive or was new, old, or anywhere in between. Any negative experience caused by this person when people present knew first hand the prior problems he caused can be laid at their feet, not the submissives who, without any 'dominant' action had to instead hide from this man, and/or cry in the bathroom. The representation generates two possible thoughts; either the drama was not that dramatic, or the 'dominants' were submissive to this person's actions.

quote:

And most assuredly, the stance you strike is no different than the stances of others - which is precisely what has enabled him to function with virtually no consequence for so long.

Really? My "stance", were I to form a similar opinion of this person and their actions, would be to ban him from anything I hosted. Depending upon how well I knew the host of anything I attended and he/she didn't want to cause a 'scene' I would have gladly done so. This is "no different" to what's been occurring over the last 10 years and its still a problem? Hell - it's like a 'lifestyle' version of Michael Myers (not Simply Michael) no matter what you can't kill him and he keeps coming back!

quote:

How nice it must be to be so all-knowing.

I am absolutely sure and confident to represent that I do NOT know more than I do know; but I appreciate you thinking otherwise.

(in reply to julietsierra)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 12:06:34 PM

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I can't believe anyone would think Merc would hesitate for a second to either "educate" or outright run a nitwit out of town. I have personally seen him send someone home for doing something he deemed innapropriate.

I draw a very distinct line between being clueless once, being clueless over and over, and being a real problem. I don't hesitate to act when I see something in person, just ask BSB about the guy who grabbed her arm at an event I was at, I think the term she used is "tore in half". I am not as quick to act on 2nd hand information but at some point, where there is smoke there is fire.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 12:15:57 PM

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I didn't read every post and am not going to. But I read some where a respected woman in the Michigan groups and around here was called a man hater... trouble maker, basically and all sorts of goobly goop. Not only did I see her attacked not for trying to oust the already ousted... but despite wanting to stop the abuses... which I think other posters in that area have seen and been subject to... and not wanting the guy just ousted, but reformed or helped... still gets her slam dunked.

Now that there are other respected witnesses... will those that attacked come in and apologize? Hell, one doesn't even have a profile showing.

What I have seen here is an attack from whatever side from personal experience that gets tossed into this situation and defenses are up seeing the situation as maybe like their own. How many of you have been in court with rape cases.. long ago... or recently? How many of you have understood far too much because only one woman complained... and then found another with the same complaint who did not know the first? There is far too much going on in this thread... but to put your personal experiences out there and used to attack another is rather slanted don't you think?

I would think that some of us would be a bit upset that so many are complaining, whether a legal thing or not... that it might give those that do what we do a bad name and we might want to cover our ass's from guys who are questionable. The last thing people need is a charge of protecting a peditor, legally or in the community that could shut you down.

I had a guy who decided to come into my group.... not bdsm... a man I had known for years who keep a part of himself hidden from me. I respected and loved this man for fifteen years and trusted him to deal with the people in my group. I got a complaint that sounded so untrue about the man I had known for so long. She didn't present well and I could see room for a man being slaughtered. But... something kept nagging at me and I addressed it with him. I knew from his answer the woman spoke the truth to at least a small degree and I gave him a time out... no way until he comes clean with the whole story is he getting back in. I could not take on the responsibilty to the people in my group if I allowed him free access. I later found proof of his actions and had my own experience with the man.

Aruging points is all fine, until someone gets slam dunked and when more proof that she is speaking the truth comes out... is still not addressed and apologized to, in my opinion. Also... anyone in my opinion who only seeks newbies... is someone I am going to watch and beware of, from watching a few of them in action and my own experience. Will I believe anything said about them? No. But I would take the time to determine the truth of the situation without slam dunking either party. When you start getting complaints about someone and they are multiple... if you don't look into the matter and let it continue... it does present as neglegence and maybe a good ol boy/ girl club. It's better to be safe than sorry.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 12:19:02 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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This is a fast reply.

I have read the thread and honestly just do not get it. If you are holding a party, just ban the guy. This is obviously not a 'gossip' thing the guy is subject to... but 10 years? Y'all left it 10 years?
That part alone - whether male or female - I find staggering.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 12:22:27 PM

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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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Keep in mind folks we are only hearing ONE side of the story

ehhh back 20 years the Detroit clubs were full of drama and pettiness and rumors. I see nothing has changed except the ppl involved.

That is prolly one of the leading reasons the scene here is so small for the population size. I know that's why I left. At some point you hope the infighting would stop.... 20 years and still going must be some kind of record.

So you wanna help the misguided dom. Leave him alone.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 12:24:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Keep in mind folks we are only hearing ONE side of the story

ehhh back 20 years the Detroit clubs were full of drama and pettiness and rumors. I see nothing has changed except the ppl involved.

That is prolly one of the leading reasons the scene here is so small for the population size. I know that's why I left. At some point you hope the infighting would stop.... 20 years and still going must be some kind of record.

So you wanna help the misguided dom. Leave him alone.

BadOne

One side of the story? Are you for real??? Ladyhib came here and told a story about the offender. Mistoferin came here and said she witnessed it too. Juliet came on and told her experience. How many sides do you need?

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to SailingBum)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 12:25:40 PM

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No SailingBum... I think we heard from others that knew the man and had experiences with him. The so called stories are lining up.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to SailingBum)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 12:27:53 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

The club I go to allows sex. It is a members only club and you can not pay at the door.

Hmmmm...4 questions asked, one answered in a manner that refers to you and your situation but does not address the overall question asked.

Why do I not find this surprising?

Thats funny, you had highlighted my post. AND there are plenty of clubs like this around the country. the fact remains, if i want to playwith a stranger the only safe way is in public.

Edited to say: ok.there are other safe ways like safe calls and such. But if there was an offending crazy person wanting to cry wolf later they would have to explain what they were doing at a bdsm club and that they signed paperwork and have witnesses that nothing non consensual happened.

True...highlighted your whole post and answered it, not just choose the point I wished to address...nor taken one paragraph away from another so that the whole context was changed.

And I will again answer your FULL post. That's great for you that your club...and others around the country...allow sexual escapades to take place within the club. My club out here is members only and, unless things have changed since I last went, it is still frowned upon. So again, what do those of us who like sexual play with our BDSM do? Travel to New York or Michigan or Illinois to play sexually in public when we are playing with a new partner, even if we've known them awhile?

As I said, educate the newbies all you want. But in the process of educating newbie submissives about predatory dominants, I hope someone will have the guts to step out and point out in another class that the predator is not always on the D-side of the leash.

You state that someone in a BDSM club is unable to cry wolf because there are witnesses and they signed paperwork and the question is raised about what they were doing in a BDSM club in the first place...I will assume that the statement could include this additional phrasing "if they had no idea what might happen in one. Could one not ask that question of someone...of legal age and (assumed) sound mind who decides to venture off with any strange man, let alone one who plays with whips and chains and knives?

A lot has been said on this thread about submissives being heard...about just now being listened to. While I will grant you that I've repeated my story about the predatory submissive a few times before on the boards, I find it interesting that when I repeated it here, no one chooses to address that though it is a direct correlary to the story in that it is the same type of story, only it comes from the male dominant view.

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 12:29:43 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

None, lushy.
But I still don't get why it took 10 years for anyone to do anything.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 12:30:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

This is a fast reply.

I have read the thread and honestly just do not get it. If you are holding a party, just ban the guy. This is obviously not a 'gossip' thing the guy is subject to... but 10 years? Y'all left it 10 years?
That part alone - whether male or female - I find staggering.

the.dark.

That's my thinking on the subject too.

She did say they were a passive group. Apparently passive to the 10th degree. If I was the one running the show and was aware, he just wouldn't be invited, and I would gladly explain to him why.

Hasta la vista baby!

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 12:33:22 PM

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I agree dark. First complaint... watch, listen, ask questions... maybe be a bit more free with the understanding. Second complaint... unknown person to the first... take action.

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No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 12:38:47 PM

Posts: 3225
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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Keep in mind folks we are only hearing ONE side of the story

ehhh back 20 years the Detroit clubs were full of drama and pettiness and rumors. I see nothing has changed except the ppl involved.

That is prolly one of the leading reasons the scene here is so small for the population size. I know that's why I left. At some point you hope the infighting would stop.... 20 years and still going must be some kind of record.

So you wanna help the misguided dom. Leave him alone.

BadOne

One side of the story? Are you for real??? Ladyhib came here and told a story about the offender. Mistoferin came here and said she witnessed it too. Juliet came on and told her experience. How many sides do you need?

Uh luscious you have to be joking!!!!! The ONLY side I want to hear from now is the ACCUSED!
When I asked ladyhib in this thread about FIRST hand Knowledge not "stories" she never replied.

So UH yea like i said one side of the story

I've met, known and like jules I've known her for years. I glanced at her post. She has a opinion just like everyone else.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 12:40:39 PM

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quote:

A lot has been said on this thread about submissives being heard...about just now being listened to. While I will grant you that I've repeated my story about the predatory submissive a few times before on the boards, I find it interesting that when I repeated it here, no one chooses to address that though it is a direct correlary to the story in that it is the same type of story, only it comes from the male dominant view.

I do. Indeed there is such a thing. I told a story about a male massage therapist in my area. I worked with him at a health club. Someone was calling around the health club chain looking for breast massage. I thought it was iffy as this was a health club not a physicians office where therapuetic breast massagefor the underlying muscle or mascectomy or lymph drainage would be warranted. I said no. the male therapist took the massage. The client freaked out and cried foul and he resigned from the club. I educate on this and talk about never doing this form of massage without a waiver and informed concent. Do you need that in BDSM? Perhaps, perhaps not. But you met someone and got intimate with them without knowing their full character. You assumed you were ok. I was merely suggesting a way to minimize the dangers. Just like condoms minimizes others. But if you want to continue to include sex with BDSM play in private with strangers this can happen unless you do what it takes to minimize these worries. be safe. We care about you.

T

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 4/9/2009 12:48:35 PM >

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 12:42:22 PM

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Joined: 9/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

None, lushy.
But I still don't get why it took 10 years for anyone to do anything.

the.dark.

Because the BDSM community is terminally infected with Geek Social Fallacy 1- http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html

< Message edited by kidwithknife -- 4/9/2009 12:44:20 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 12:44:39 PM

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So you want to hear both sides of a story... that's great... but when you have at least one person you know and respect agreeing to the first person telling what happened, with a master who could confirm he had to follow the guy following her to make sure all was okay... you can't consider that there is truth to the story unless you talk to the accused who you don't know? All in the name of fairness and understanding... I think this guy got away with far more than he should have.

What does it say that you are being so fair minded SailingBum... that you don't reguard someone you know's word combined with at least two other's on this thread?

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to SailingBum)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 12:53:04 PM

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Joined: 11/22/2008
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A few things to say.

1. Date rape is illegal in every civilized country that I'm aware of. If he breaks the law, prosecute.
2. Unless he's directly related to you, he's none of your business. An asshole is an asshole, but if he's not breaking the law, it's not your concern.
3. Ban him from anything you're responsible for. Advise friends if you feel it necessary.

(in reply to DavanKael)

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/9/2009 1:06:41 PM

Posts: 3225
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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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I never said the accusations were groundless. What I did imply was, To be "Fair" <kinda like the way I roll> I would like to hear from the accused before I make up my mind. I guess I doing a piss poor job of getting my point across. I don't know what to believe at this point so much bull shit flying around. But round here there a history drama and the like.

Dunno what that says about me lockit that I want to give every one involved to have their say before I make up my mind. Why don't you tell me?

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to Lockit)

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