RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or less?

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 9:48:42 AM

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Hello, Well, in 50 years from now...whatever happens...what could you, any of you do to effect what....those powers that be... do.

A video like this has it's pointed agenda...for and by the producers, who have their bias and purpose in mind. Some people term it as: propaganda.

(in reply to stella41b)

RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 9:56:13 AM

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Firm: The only ones making claims are the video makers. Ask them to prove the figures. And read before you write.

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 9:58:46 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Are the facts accurate? Are you claiming that the numbers that they use are inaccurate? If so, on what do you base your claim?

I could ask you the same.

On what basis do you believe they are accurate, since no sources were cited? In fact, I didn't even see anything relating to who this video was produced by.

The accuracy is irrelevant anyway. It was designed to incite fear with the melodramatic narration and implications of Muslim world dominance.

It apparently worked pretty well, considering the person who posted it said it scared her.

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 9:59:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's up to you to justify starting this hateful and fear mongering thread.

Hmmmm,

Since you, boi, and holly all think it's "hateful" would you mind sharing your reasoning that leads you to that conclusion?

Firm

For me it was the attitude that the muslims were somehow trying to take over the world and how terrible it is and we have to stop it or our children are doomed. I am also very leary of videos that throw out all these "facts" but never mention where they came from, but maybe I missed that part. It was early and I hadn't had any coffee yet.

boi,

I'm not sure that I agree with your assessment of "doomed". I think they portrayed it as a serious, unappreciated issue, and are pointing out Christians need to be considering all the lost souls out there.

The video was aimed at Evangelical Christians, who are pretty much the only Christians with active missionary programs. I don't think it was aimed at the atheistic, liberal population, so it's appeal is specific, not general. Within that context, it's a call to action (as it stated) for a greater effort to spread the beliefs of Christianity.

To a liberal, mired in the multicultural belief that Western culture is inherently bad and evil, and call to defend the Western beliefs, cultures and way of life is seen as "xenophobic" and "hate mongering".

I disagree.

As far as the facts and statistics, I'm pretty familiar with the basic demographic issues related to the increase Islamic populations of Europe, and they aren't far wrong, although whether or not it's a "bad" as presented is open to discussion. A couple of things could happen to change the equation, and birth-rates, but they are pretty close for straight-line projections of current birth statistics.

I'm not here actually "defending" the video as much as I am challenging the assumptions of many who skimmed the video, or who only bothered to listen for their "buzz words" which set off their "attack-o meters".

Firm

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 10:11:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's particularly ironic, because Islam recognises Jesus as a prophet, and worships the same God as the Christian and the Jews - just in a slightly different form. It would be more productive to emphasise the similarities between the three Abrahamic faiths, rather than point at what divides them, but I suppose that this wouldn't fit the political agenda of those that are trying to create the fear that will rally the crowds behind them. Incidentally, Muslim extremists or Christian extemists, it doesn't matter... they all use the very same techniques of demonising the others .

1. What was said - specifically - that "demonized" the Muslim population?

2. There are indeed important similarities between the religions. There are also important differences between the thre.

I don't think that the religions are interchangeable, as you seem to be saying. Especially not to the adherents.

Culturally, one that is most significant to me is that many Muslims believe that the state should be religiously structured and bound. Christianity has pretty much accepted the concept of a difference between religious leaders and secular leaders.

I think that's an important lesson, and it cost quite a bit of pain and blood for the West to achieve that consensus. I'm not sure that I'm looking forward to the effort to get that consensus within the Muslim world.

Another important difference seems to be the place of women in society, and the use of force for conversion.

Firm

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 10:17:34 AM

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Challenging assumptions using even more sweeping assumptions, tired rhetoric and belligerent semantics. Good tactic.

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 10:21:51 AM

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Here's the fun part: spreading Christianity should be a number one goal for evangelical Christians anyway, and regardless of the growth of Islam. So if it's not for political reasons, why is their duty to go forth and multiply and convert others presented in such an antagonistic way? I thought the Crusades were over.

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 10:25:03 AM

subtlebutterfly

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I've always been the supporter of a good fucking no matter the purpose.

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 10:26:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Are the facts accurate? Are you claiming that the numbers that they use are inaccurate? If so, on what do you base your claim?

I could ask you the same.

On what basis do you believe they are accurate, since no sources were cited? In fact, I didn't even see anything relating to who this video was produced by.

The accuracy is irrelevant anyway. It was designed to incite fear with the melodramatic narration and implications of Muslim world dominance.

It apparently worked pretty well, considering the person who posted it said it scared her.

To clarify, I'm not saying that the figures are totally accurate: primarily because there isn't really any good figures on the populations.

However, the trend lines are accurate; Islamic populations with high birth rates, (nominally) Christian European inhabitants with below replacement level birth rates. If they stay the same, then within 100 years or less, many European nations will be primarily Muslim.

I suspect that a lowering of Muslim immigrant birth rates is not anticipated in their projections.

As I said, the piece is directed at a specific audience, for a specific reason. Some may call it propaganda. If you are an Evangelical Christian, its a call to action.

What I find unsettling more than anything said in the video, was the instant hatred and anger that it generated among some.

Firm

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 10:26:46 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Do you have an idea for a final solution, maybe ?

Instead of bombs we should drop:
Scotch and Ambien.
Scotch cuz maybe they would learn to relax a bit and not be so pissed off all the time.
Ambien cuz I think a major component of theie foul attitude is a result of sleep deprivation cuz they have to get up every few hours to pray.
BTW, this was a JOKE, a little levity regarding a not funny matter.
j

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 10:29:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fitznicely

Challenging assumptions using even more sweeping assumptions, tired rhetoric and belligerent semantics. Good tactic.

Oh. That's what you are doing?

Good to know.

Firm

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 10:29:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I think they portrayed it as a serious, unappreciated issue, and are pointing out Christians need to be considering all the lost souls out there.

Well maybe these Christians could make a start with the 'lost souls' within their own brethren. As for the 'lost souls out there', some of us aren't lost souls at all, we just believe something different.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

The video was aimed at Evangelical Christians, who are pretty much the only Christians with active missionary programs. I don't think it was aimed at the atheistic, liberal population, so it's appeal is specific, not general. Within that context, it's a call to action (as it stated) for a greater effort to spread the beliefs of Christianity.

So non-Evangelicals are the 'atheistic, liberal population'? Generalisation perhaps?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

To a liberal, mired in the multicultural belief that Western culture is inherently bad and evil, and call to defend the Western beliefs, cultures and way of life is seen as "xenophobic" and "hate mongering".

Another generalisation, perhaps?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

As far as the facts and statistics, I'm pretty familiar with the basic demographic issues related to the increase Islamic populations of Europe, and they aren't far wrong, although whether or not it's a "bad" as presented is open to discussion. A couple of things could happen to change the equation, and birth-rates, but they are pretty close for straight-line projections of current birth statistics.

So what about immigration issues from and within Eastern Europe caused by the downfall of communism, the creation of the Commonwealth of Independent States and the accession to the European Union?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I'm not here actually "defending" the video as much as I am challenging the assumptions of many who skimmed the video, or who only bothered to listen for their "buzz words" which set off their "attack-o meters".

I've watched the video a couple of times which might have made a much more convincing argument had it looked at all sides of the issue, but it didn't but tried to present an argument on the basis of its incomplete research.

The assertion that 'Europe will cease to exist' without looking at Eastern Europe was pretty ridiculous, given that Russia and the Ukraine are sizeable countries in that part of Europe where the Orthodox Church is still quite strong. It also didn't mention Latin America, China or other parts of the world.

I don't have facts and figures to offer, but I didn't find enough in the video to make any sort of convincing argument other than propaganda.

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 10:30:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Your party`s "shoot`m up and hand out bibles" strategy isn`t working and only making us more and more enemies.We can`t kill our way to perfection.

Hell, we're so far gone we can barely shoot our way to mediocrity.
j

(in reply to Owner59)

RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 10:36:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

I don't know what everyone is so worried about... the Duggers and their Quiverfull brethren will save us all.

Unless more of the crazy bitches drown their kids in bathtubs...
j

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 10:40:20 AM

MichiganHeadmast

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast

50 years ago they predicted scarcity of resources that are now in abundance. They also predicted an ice age. Sometimes predictions have to be revised.

Ice age?

Got any proof that "they" said those things 50 yrs ago"

And who were "they"?

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,944914-2,00.html
Another Ice Age?

Sunspot Cycle. The changing weather is apparently connected with differences in the amount of energy that the earth's surface receives from the sun. Changes in the earth's tilt and distance from the sun could, for instance, significantly increase or decrease the amount of solar radiation falling on either hemisphere—thereby altering the earth's climate. Some observers have tried to connect the eleven-year sunspot cycle with climate patterns, but have so far been unable to provide a satisfactory explanation of how the cycle might be involved.Man, too, may be somewhat responsible for the cooling trend. The University of Wisconsin's Reid A. Bryson and other climatologists suggest that dust and other particles released into the atmosphere as a result of farming and fuel burning may be blocking more and more sunlight from reaching and heating the surface of the earth.Climatic Balance. Some scientists like Donald Oilman, chief of the National Weather Service's long-range-prediction group, think that the cooling trend may be only temporary. But all agree that vastly more information is needed about the major influences on the earth's climate. Indeed, it is to gain such knowledge that 38 ships and 13 aircraft, carrying scientists from almost 70 nations, are now assembling in the Atlantic and elsewhere for a massive 100-day study of the effects of the tropical seas and atmosphere on worldwide weather. The study itself is only part of an international scientific effort known acronymically as GARP (for Global Atmospheric Research Program).Whatever the cause of the cooling trend, its effects could be extremely serious, if not catastrophic. Scientists figure that only a 1% decrease in the amount of sunlight hitting the earth's surface could tip the climatic balance, and cool the planet enough to send it sliding down the road to another ice age within only a few hundred years.

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 10:44:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I think they portrayed it as a serious, unappreciated issue, and are pointing out Christians need to be considering all the lost souls out there.

Well maybe these Christians could make a start with the 'lost souls' within their own brethren. As for the 'lost souls out there', some of us aren't lost souls at all, we just believe something different.

And that's fine. Certainly there are more than simply Muslims to be concerned about.

"Lost soul" in the Christian religious context, stella.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

The video was aimed at Evangelical Christians, who are pretty much the only Christians with active missionary programs. I don't think it was aimed at the atheistic, liberal population, so it's appeal is specific, not general. Within that context, it's a call to action (as it stated) for a greater effort to spread the beliefs of Christianity.

So non-Evangelicals are the 'atheistic, liberal population'? Generalisation perhaps?

No, your separation is a false dichotomy. Human secularist would perhaps be a more acceptable term? Buddhist aren't "atheistic, liberal", neither are Wiccan, Muslim, or any other religious adherent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

To a liberal, mired in the multicultural belief that Western culture is inherently bad and evil, and call to defend the Western beliefs, cultures and way of life is seen as "xenophobic" and "hate mongering".

Another generalisation, perhaps?

Nope. Not at all. I make a distinction between "multiculturalism" and "toleration".

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

As far as the facts and statistics, I'm pretty familiar with the basic demographic issues related to the increase Islamic populations of Europe, and they aren't far wrong, although whether or not it's a "bad" as presented is open to discussion. A couple of things could happen to change the equation, and birth-rates, but they are pretty close for straight-line projections of current birth statistics.

So what about immigration issues from and within Eastern Europe caused by the downfall of communism, the creation of the Commonwealth of Independent States and the accession to the European Union?

I think it's pretty clear that they are talking primarily about Western Europe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I'm not here actually "defending" the video as much as I am challenging the assumptions of many who skimmed the video, or who only bothered to listen for their "buzz words" which set off their "attack-o meters".

I've watched the video a couple of times which might have made a much more convincing argument had it looked at all sides of the issue, but it didn't but tried to present an argument on the basis of its incomplete research.

The assertion that 'Europe will cease to exist' without looking at Eastern Europe was pretty ridiculous, given that Russia and the Ukraine are sizeable countries in that part of Europe where the Orthodox Church is still quite strong. It also didn't mention Latin America, China or other parts of the world.

I don't have facts and figures to offer, but I didn't find enough in the video to make any sort of convincing argument other than propaganda.

See my previous comment.

Firm

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 10:48:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Whenever someone tries to "discuss" that the Holocaust never happened ,I "squelch"the discussion.I don`t need to hear trash.

Why noy just use facts and logic to first show all the holes in their arguement? It is better to educate against this kind of thing, than to try and supress it.

quote:

I don`t believe the OP was trying to discern the distinctions or analyze the multiple factors ,study or "discuss" the topic.

You are not a mind reader. It seemed better to watch what she was refering to, comment on it from an objective view, and correct misinformation. Do you disagree with this approach?

quote:

She`s trying in a cutesy way to spread fear and loathing.

That is not how I saw it, and regardless the best approach to address it is as I stated above.

quote:

And you Orion,trying to squelch us and our reactions to the OP.When does the squelching end?

Nice circular argument. Try something with a little more actual logic in it. You can have your reaction, and I will take the more adult way and try to rationally discuss it. You see I do not believe that there is any such thing as hate speech, or no-no subjects. Knowledge is power, and misinformation can come in the form of knowledge. I would rather combat it directly, because it is going to exist whether you want to hear it or not.

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 10:49:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

I listened.

Perhaps you need to read what i wrote? If you believe that the "call to action" is to spread the gospel, you are very much mistaken. Hatred and fear hidden behind religion remains hatred and fear.

Is "something your wrote" also something you deleted?

Did I get the quote incorrect from the video?

Or, perhaps, are you seeing it through you own biases?

Firm

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 10:50:27 AM

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Great post and response, Orion.

Firm

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RE: What will the world be like in the next 50 year or ... - 5/15/2009 10:50:38 AM

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I must have missed some of her posts because I have never gotten the impression she is afraid of religion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

As afraid of Christianity as you are kitten, wouldn't it be nice if you could show a little more sympathy, respect and understanding to those who have a distrust of Islam? After all, you and they have a lot in common, even if you're on the other side of the looking glass from one another.

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