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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/8/2006 8:27:36 PM

DiannaVesta

Posts: 1087
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From: Mid-Atlantic area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

ok...if she doesn't why did she scream, cry and throw a fit?

just bored?...

perhaps she is insecure?...idk...

Maybe she's passive agressive or needs a damn good spanking!

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/8/2006 8:43:50 PM

Troubleinparadis

Posts: 55
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Tulsa, Ok
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because she likes to get her way...really likes it, to the point of trying to manipulate to get it.

I am on the phone with her now and she seems very content....but if events happen to play out to put us in a situation where she thinks she can get away with something, or gain the upper hand or whatever she will be right back to her tantrums...(well I see them as tantrums now anway).

she would have (and has) thrown the same kind of fit in the same manner over what we were going to watch on tv.....

I have made the mistake of allowing this behavior to not only happen but be an affective tool for her...because I didnt look deep enough past it to see the manipulation (rather I tended to take things at face value).

Anyway like I said I am on the phone with her now, she is on her way home....she seems content with being told not to discuss our relationship this evening and has said she looks forward to "what ever" I want to do tonight, she just wants to be happy and make me happy......

but its the same cycle she always goes through, and the next time she is not getting her way the tatrums will be back, and if I try to punish or restrict her because of it....the I want to be nilla will return.

this time however I am not going to allow such behavior to change my actions.

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/8/2006 9:10:29 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

this time however I am not going to allow such behavior to change my actions.

Good for you! You can't be the Master unless you are willing to BE the Master. Never heard of such an extreme case of being allowed to top from the bottom in all my years in the leather vats.

Your fault, dude. Fix it or don't. Up to you.

And this is just a suggestion. Don't just make it for 'this' time, do it all the time or you are going to find yourself right back in the same situation.

Celeste

"Actions speak louder than words do by far."

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/8/2006 9:21:33 PM

Evanesce

Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
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quote:

I belive your right, except I can not walk away due to the wedding vows, and yes it would take her actually cheating and me knowing about it to change my mind about walking away.....

$1000 to a private investigator will get you the answer on whether or not she's cheating. I'd wager she is.

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/8/2006 9:23:15 PM

DiannaVesta

Posts: 1087
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

quote:

I belive your right, except I can not walk away due to the wedding vows, and yes it would take her actually cheating and me knowing about it to change my mind about walking away.....

$1000 to a private investigator will get you the answer on whether or not she's cheating. I'd wager she is.

Maybe not cheating/fucking but flirting or studying someone maybe.

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/8/2006 9:58:18 PM

LadyJulieAnn

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At this point I am just wondering why this thread continues to play on like a bad soap opera. If you understand how your wife works, then take steps to take control of the situation or change it. If she doesn't want to be controlled, then she can change it too. It takes two to make a relationship work, and you have to come to some sort of agreement. If you can't do it alone, get a professional to help.

I wish you the best of luck,
Julie

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/9/2006 1:58:51 AM

ayasha

Posts: 149
Joined: 12/10/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Troubleinparadis

quote:

I think she has perhaps latched onto My reluctance to be an abuser, My thoughts are that a sub should sub because they like to sub or want to please the dom, I dont belive my dominance should be forced apon her (as it has been her entire life)

her understanding of my reluctance to be an abuser, + her manipulative nature I think could quite possibly be fueling an "I can get out of trouble if I just throw a hissy and say I dont want to be a slave anymore"....
cutting her har is a VERY drastic event, I have allways been dead set against any cutting, to the point of her having to "work" on me for a while before I would allow her to have it trimmed

perhaps she is simply crying out for Me to take what should be mine? Perhaps in my effort to heal her wounds, I have let my "strength" wavier, if even just in her perception?

If she is a submissive or slave, and You are not being Dominant, then no wonder she is having problems. Being Dominant does not mean that You have to be abusive. But to say that You don't believe Your Dominance should be forced upon her? It sounds to me as if she is begging for that Dominant side of You to come out. You must wonder about this Yourself from Your post.

If the only reason You want to keep the Dominant/submissive role is so that You can always get Your own way, but do not think that You have to put any work into this? Then You are on the wrong track, Sir. It sounds as if You need to sit her down and have a heart to heart talk with her - one wishes both of You the best.

~ ayasha ~

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/9/2006 2:15:14 AM

KittenWithaTwist

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It really doesn't sound like you love her as much as you say you do-calling her a liar and a cheat and saying she's deliberately out to fuck you around.

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/9/2006 4:27:53 AM

collieloveruk

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Joined: 1/30/2006
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god the more i read about this the more i see a completely downtrodden abused woman who after spending 6 years with you has started to find herself ............. and from what you say every time she tries to express anything you come over all dom and tell her to submit ........... i dont think this has anything at all to do with the master / slave issues its about her asserting herself in a world where she has never had the opportunity before............. take a step back before you chase her off for good................. shes testing boundaries of course she is.............. shes suiddenly realised she is not a worthless human being who has to shut up and do as shes told just because you tell her to........................ maybe she isnt sub at all or maybe she is .................. you are just not giving her the opportunity to find out.

if you want to save this then she needs to find out what she wants and what she needs to be, do and live like................... sounds to me like you are actually scared of letting her do this ................... stop trying to dominate her and have everything on your terms because you are going to drive her into the arms of another who cares for her as a human being first and not whether she will submit to your needs and go get you a beer

you sound nearly as insecure as she does

go get counselling together because if you keep trying to be her master she is going to rebel and you are going to end up with nothing.................. she needs to work out what she wants and it seems that while u still telling her its all on your terms you are going to lose her..................

she obviously doesnt feel she can talk to you because she is scared of you she doesnt know what she wants and you wont let her find out in case she realises its not the life shes living, and maybe its not to submit and be the woman she was ............ she will never be that woman again she has come a long way............... but with counselling and you 'LISTENING' with a 3rd party mediator you may be able to compromise you seem in such a rush to get her how you want her its taken 6 years for her to get where she is now and you think that shes gonna find herself and re-submit again over night .............. not on your nellie.................. IT IS GOING TO TAKE A LONG TIME............ you are not going to be able to do this overnight or by the sound of it by yourselves ............ GET HELP AND NOW before you do irrepairable damage to your relationship and she leaves ............. ok im not a slave, (and maybe she isnt either cos she sounds so like me) but as a human id be packing my bags while you're sat here all day typing and be gone before you realised .............. one thing you could try if you are scared of counselling in case she 'finds herself' is to try getting a sand egg timer ........... sit down and give her the opportunity to talk till the sand runs out without interruption......... then turn it over and have your say no interruption and keep doing this and dont throw anything she says back in your face............ but as you've already decided to stop her talking then i think the end is near she so obviously needs to and you wont let her and shes too scared of you to open her mouth unless its to get a reaction

I know how she feels i spent 6 years not being allowed an opinion with a very abusive man ......... i ended up provoking an argument for a response cos i felt like the only time i could have my say was when i was shouting or doing something to get his attention ......... we split up i ran as fast as i could ........... now wake up and smell the coffee or you gonna lose her

collie xx

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/9/2006 5:44:29 AM

Sirandlittle1

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The one thing you dont seem to of tried, is Dominating her consistantly. But it looks like your about to try tonight. Phew, at last!

Removal of a collar: what sort of mixed whack arse message is that? and you still consider you have the right to dominate her. I went through a 'i dont want to be a sub anymore' phase. And whilst feeling empowered in my vanillaness, i got disrespectful, and had my collar taken from me, cut up in front of me. I lasted a week. The distress was intense. I now have another, with a proviso, that if it comes off ever again, it never goes back on. A bloody harsh lesson, but worth it. I learnt what my needs were.

Make you both going into counselling as a couple, compulsory.

You mention she has not attempted suicide in 3 yrs. There are many forms of deliberate self harm, self destruction buttons abound in this woman it seems. Pushing her loving master away, sounds like just another deliberate self harm. Firm boundries, consistancy, clear guidelines help these people immensely. Helps them feel safe, secure, valued.

Get a job. Unemployment, is a very unattractive trait in a Dominant, to me anyhow.

And any work that you set out to do to fix your relationship, set a time limit on your goals. Make your goals clear, measurable and achievable. eg. in the next two weeks, i will find a counsellor and have made a appnt for us both to attend.

If she wont join a munch, get her to join collarme, or some other site. she can still have her anomyninity and yet share her struggle to submit with other submissives, and not have to give you so much crap about it.
I find exposing myself to powerexchange relationships, keeps me peachy keen

Good luck, i wish you both peace
little1

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/9/2006 7:16:35 AM

Troubleinparadis

Posts: 55
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From: Tulsa, Ok
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first of all things are looking up, after last night...I will discuss it after I respond to everyones posts....and again I appreciate the responses, the views from everyone else, and the chance to just step back and view this from other angles...helped me get my shit toghether.

quote:

Your fault, dude. Fix it or don't. Up to you.

yes it is, and yes I will.....everyone makes mistakes, its what we learn on the way that is important.
And yes it has to be an "all the time" effort, if I show any doubt, or weakness, or allow her to manipulate me once, it will empower her to do it again.......damn I really was a slow learner this time! they say love is blind though.

quote:

Maybe not cheating/fucking but flirting or studying someone maybe.

Actually, I think she made it up to try to push me into "being Me"....perhaps not, but at this point its easier to think that unless I have some sort of proof otherwise.....and really there is no time when she is not at work that she is not with me, or calling me on the cell phone ever hour....(she calls every free moment just to talk because she "needs" to)

quote:

At this point I am just wondering why this thread continues to play on like a bad soap opera.

I would say it keeps going because I needed a helping hand, and most are nice enough to lend one....

quote:

But to say that You don't believe Your Dominance should be forced upon her? It sounds to me as if she is begging for that Dominant side of You to come out. You must wonder about this Yourself from Your post

yes that is exactly what she was doing....and yeah I thought it "might" be what she was doing....but it was hard to hear her say one thing, and belive she needed another....well it SHOULDENT have been hard...but then I have never cared for anyone the way I do her....My feelings beat me.

quote:

It really doesn't sound like you love her as much as you say you do-calling her a liar and a cheat and saying she's deliberately out to fuck you around.

How does my love get qualified by her actions? she has lied (a lot) usually about little things but she is not above telling lies to stay out of troube, or to gain an upper hand, or to get her way, or just because she is in the mood......that makes her a liar, I love my liar but she is still a liar....

As for thinking she is out to fuck around....when she looks me in the eye and says I have been thinking about fucking this guy at work that keeps hitting on me, if fo no other reason than just to bring our realtionship to an end..it does make me wonder if she has, or will...........again I still love her, its her actions not my emotion.

quote:

Get a job. Unemployment, is a very unattractive trait in a Dominant, to me anyhow.

I quit my job, I didn not quit earning if that makes sense? I have a few online ventures not really companys or anything but a few online sales and such. and I am in the process of buying about 40k worth of big equipment for a tractor/dozer company I will be starting in the spring

she Needed the job and would not have taken one if I had countinued to bring enough money in to pay the bills and have her spending money....she is addicted to shopping.
I pay the bills, and just bought a new home on 10 acres. I payed with a check, not a morgage.

If she wanted to spend lots shopping, and she didnt want to please me to "earn it" (god that sounds harsh and its not really like that but text loses so much) then she needed to get a job (in addition to the inner strength it built).

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/9/2006 7:57:33 AM

Troubleinparadis

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Well as I mentioned I put limits on our conversation last night. IE, no talking about slavery, submission, leaving, staying, relationship etc.....I was stern and firm with my decision, she was receptive.

she came home tired from work, so it was a bubble bath (we have a huge tub), a glass of wine, candles.....and a lot of communication, restricted by not being able to talk about ^^.

I am not going to get into the personal details of the evening, but suffice it to say she served me, (service and sexual) in ways she hasent done in years...and her eyes wow so filled with love and devotion.

she was bitting her tounge all night not to talk about things she new I didnt want to hear about.....at 12:10 she gushed, its after midnight so its tommorow isent it Master? I chuckled and agreed that it indeed was and told her she could speak freely as long as she would stop when/if I wished for her to.

According to her, restricting her from talking about slavery and submission was the key......she feels she can not be property, can not be a slave, can not be "less than equal" in fact the idea of being slave causes her to want to runaway....and yet at the same time wants to do "anything" to make me happy. (this is the attitude I was hoping for, I just hope she is not just trying to tell me what I want to hear....)

so calling her slave or sub or property is out, her mind twists that up into "bad things"...she dosent mind doing the actual submission (as long as I can be strong enough to take it when she rebels)....she needs to see I am stronger than her.....once again duh.

she agreed to her manipulations of me, and even appologized for a recent event that I hadent seen through, she begged me not to allow her to get away with her mainipulations, to be strong enough to "not care" what she is saying she wants needs, and to give her what she really needs......duh

she pleaded with me to give her structure again, claiming with out my guidance she has been lost, un-organized, and lazy. (which is true).

She says she needs clear consequinces(sp) for her actions (and why did I bother to point out my mis-spelling is beyond me its not like the rest of my text is perfect but hey no coffee yet).
she needs me to be very strict, she agreed that she tries to push my buttons to get me to "put her in her place".....unfortunatly for her I wasent doing that, and instead was in her mind willing to let her leave, rather than man up...Touche

when it appeared I would rather let her leave, than try to use force and make her stay....in her mind that = I dont care for her enough to get off my dead ass lol.....apparently when she is acting up and kicking and screaming and leaving and drama fest....she really does just wnat me to force my Domination.........again duh

its going to be a lot of hard work getting this relationship back on track, but I feel as if I just woke up from a very bad dream.....I do know what needs to be done, I know how it needs to be done, I know pretty much what she needs, and I know what I need......I know why I "failed", and why she reacted the way she did to my failure.

I am on the phone with her and she is at walmart, buying supplies for a session tonight that she begged for....she wants to "pay" for her manipulations....I want to treat her like an ammusment park.....all in all +++

Thanks again for eveyones ear....

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/9/2006 11:15:16 AM

amayos

Posts: 1553
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Troubleinparadis

Perhaps I simply fucked up a good thing....

Sounds like you inadvertently did. It is my experience that those conditioned by natural abuse usually require (to a lesser or greater degree) a continuation of the same. Give them too much freedom or space to dream in and thoughts of freedom will interfere; they will seek to become their own Master. Not necessarily a bad thing, by today's modern standards. But still...

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/9/2006 11:23:49 AM

KittenWithaTwist

Posts: 490
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Troubleinparadis

quote:

If you would expect her to tell you who she was on the phone with.. you'd better also be willing to accept that same grilling yourself.

No there is a double standard...I do what I want, she does what I want (in my thinking).

quote:

Wow.. a psychiatrist would have a field day with you. Nilla isn't ignoring. Its asking instead of demanding, compromising, being polite and considerate..
I would recommend to you .. to write down what it is that you need from her. Not wants.. but what do you NEED to be happy.

Well the problem with asking is you have to be prepared to hear the answer no...I really am not usually, so rather than deal with hearing no it is easier not to ask....
As for what I need from her as I have often told her I only want one simple thing...."do as your told" its a blanket statement that should apply to just about all situations. (if she cant give that, thats fine but that is what I want.

and yes she has expressed a rather healthy intrest in topping.

As SimplyV said, it isn't what you WANT, it's what you NEED to be happy in your marriage to this woman. Have you stopped to consider that maybe she just isn't the submissive person you thought she was? That maybe all that she went through before you met her created a subservient mess, but now she may want to be something else--now that she's free from the abuse and ready to begin her life?

What do you NEED? For instance, I need trust, honesty, love, and understanding from my partner. I need to have those things to make our relationship work and make it enjoyable. If I don't have them, why bother sticking around?

If what you NEED is for her to be submissive, you might be out of luck--it doesn't sound like she wants or needs to be submissive anymore.

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/9/2006 11:47:08 AM

Troubleinparadis

Posts: 55
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quote:

What do you NEED? For instance, I need trust, honesty, love, and understanding from my partner. I need to have those things to make our relationship work and make it enjoyable. If I don't have them, why bother sticking around?

I would say I need the same things to lesser or greater extent, I am lenient on the honesty depending on the heart/mind....and I continue the trust trail, to expect her to trust me to make the decisions and not fight me when what I think is best is different than what she thinks is best.

I have a healthy desire for obedience and submission from her, but have technically lived with out it…wont any longer, but I have. Which in turn I should think shows I love her for more than “just the kink”.

Anyway she is feeling very submissive indeed today, and I intend to do my part to keep her there.

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/9/2006 3:36:56 PM

shigglyboom

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TIP -
Glad things are going better for you.

You say that you don't trust therapists, but you may want to reconsider that. You have just trusted a bunch of random total strangers on this message board to make spot judgements and influence your thinking. Hopefully it helped (We clearly had fun with it!) Just think how helpful someone might be if they had more than a few snippets of type to go on and the opportunity to answer questions on a realtime basis. If you can't get her to go, go yourself.

Shig

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/9/2006 3:59:38 PM

Troubleinparadis

Posts: 55
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yeah, its good advice....which we wont take but hey.....thanks for it!

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/9/2006 9:30:51 PM

Sirandlittle1

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Troubleinparadise, im so glad, that you have made headway. Communication over bubbles and candles, can bring great change.

ANY relationship has tough patches, and when each of us is in a bad space, we often do not behave in ways we are proud of, well, i dont anyway.

Submission is a difficult path, really difficult. Accepting that you need that sort of structure and coming to terms with it, takes a lot of learning from both of you.

There is a Taken in Hand group/society, whatever. From what i have read, its a sesame street version of bdsm. But it has far less scary structure to it. Less protocol, less emphasis on doing it the 'right' way, its more about 2 or more people, writing their own book. It has all the power exchange elements you would find in a M/s relationship, but M's are referred to as, quite simply, my husband. Less shocking.

i can empathise with your wife. my ltd understanding of submission had me baulking at phrases like "owned", even the word master makes me uneasy.
And as for acting out, when i dont feel controlled, safe, dominated, heck, im the queen at that! It took a head on collision and a ensuiing bubble bath long long discussion, to get us back on track. Im a good submissive, so im told by the one who counts. Sometimes i offer it up like air, other times, i have to have it forced from me.
Trusting someone sufficiently to submit, takes courage. Especially for people like your wife and i, where trust has always been abused by others in our pasts. For me, it took D/s structure to overcome my hurdles. Its been very VERY therapeutic for me to know, that there's this rule book somewhere, that says, i will be loved, cherished, cared for, my best interests at heart in all of his decisions, that makes that trust easier to impart.

I wish you both well. And seriously, i would urge you to have her 'meet' other submissives who have gone through what she has gone through with her submission/slavery.

Bringing another into your relationship is the worst idea i read througout this entire post.

good luck to both of you. Enjoy tonight, and many more to come.
little1

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/10/2006 6:23:53 AM

Troubleinparadis

Posts: 55
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From: Tulsa, Ok
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Thanks for the support...

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RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/10/2006 10:04:53 AM

starshineowned

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quote:

she really does just wnat me to force my Domination

Greetings..~smiles~

While I understand completely the why and where you both are coming from having in past been there done that all beit not to any degree such as listed here..This one quote in itself no matter the actual want or outcome is still "manipulation" and needs to be dealt with. I think you Sir having gone through all this and knowing or atleast now feeling you know the reasoning behind it..are now better prepared and aware to keep watch of your own self so that it hopefully won't go to those extremes again for either of you.

Having her journal atleast weekly is a good tool
Putting aside just a few minutes every night at a set time inwhich she is required to be in a submissive posture that you use for her, and you telling her briefly of your day, and she doing likewise, and then asking if there is anything she feels she needs to discuss otherwise..if so..listen..if not..then let her give you a big wet one and a hug. Once a month or end of month discussions also help. It gives you time to go over what you all have done and focused on during the month regarding her training. It prompts you to make these goals or plans to help keep both of you focused, and it allows for you to introduce to her what you will be working on with her in the upcoming month.

Life in general can be talked about anytime..kids, bills, grocerys, inlaws, jobs, etc.

Best of Luck

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

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