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Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 1:22:33 PM

DreamGoddess666

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The upholding of Proposition 8 in California is a major human rights defeat in this country. I don't think the United States should be allowed to be called the "land of the free" anymore. It should be "the land of the free if you're a Heterosexual Christian", because that's what it really is. I despise people putting the Bible into law. It's a violation of everything the founding fathers intended when this country was created.

It makes me think maybe it's time for another revolution. The founded fathers didn't ask for freedom nicely, they TOOK IT at the end of a gun. I'm starting to think that's the only way homosexuals will get true freedom. We may end up having to kill for it, taking that freedom at the end of a gun. The religious nuts have to be stopped!

I'm so angry I can't even see straight right now.

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 1:25:52 PM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666
I'm so angry I can't even see straight right now.

It shows.

the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to DreamGoddess666)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 1:29:24 PM

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Dont sweat it! We (not the gay guys or the lesbian women) will inevitably make the law change here (which is why its so odd that we're so often ill regarded by the LGB types).

After all, how can it make any sense that I am able to marry a woman but not a man? And later, with documents changed (mere documents) I can marry a man but not a woman.

Once the craziness of this situation is understood and steps taken to deal with the craziness, it no longer makes any sense to prevent two adults marrying whatever their situation.

E

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RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 1:29:55 PM

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Proposition 8 was upheld by a huge margin in a very liberal State. I can say with some certainty that is was much more that the religious right who voted for this. The majority of Americans, whether right or wrong, still believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman.

(in reply to DreamGoddess666)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 1:33:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Proposition 8 was upheld by a huge margin in a very liberal State. I can say with some certainty that is was much more that the religious right who voted for this. The majority of Americans, whether right or wrong, still believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman.

When the people can vote, and decide as a people, That IS a free Country.

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RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 1:36:49 PM

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Dear Lindsey,
violence is rarely, if ever, the solution to a problem. Tolerance, communication and a solidarity of viewpoint will onvince many more of the average people out there to change a law then threats of violence ever will. If you, for example, were to write to your Congressman and say, politely "these are my issues with Proposition 8 and this is where I see it causing problems for X class of people", I have no doubt that, even if they disagree with you, you would be given an equally polite and considered response and the lines of communication have then been opened.

Making statements such as 'we may have to kill', 'taking it at the end of a gun" and "time for another revolution" are exacerbatory, inflammatory and will see you considered part of the lunatic fringe and - very possibly - passed on to the FBI for monitoring. Certainly, at the very least, such comments would see you ignored and nothing changed.

Proposition 8 does not concern us here in Australia but I have read it and disagree with most of its precepts, just as in the past I have disagreed with precepts of law in this country. In those past times I and others here have joined together and, through a calm, reasoned and organised concerted effort, seen some of those laws changed, amended or repealed. You can rest assured that had we begun by threatening to storm Parliament house we would have achieved NOTHING.

Your passion does you credit; your words do not. Please think on that.

Blessings ....... Dominae (a non-Christian, non-Heterosexual, non-American)

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 1:39:47 PM

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Ya know Lindsey, I see a running trend with you. When faced with discrimination, you bust out the one-upping and go on a tirade. So what if California didnt legalize it. Arent there other states where it is legal? I dont see anyone pissing up a tree because its not legal in Nebraska, or something. Or maybe they are. My point is, calm down. One day, we will live in a world where everyone can be married and miserable, no matter what is in their partners pants.

(edited to clarify to whom I was speaking.)

< Message edited by KyttynTheMynx -- 5/26/2009 1:57:51 PM >

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RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 1:42:21 PM

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It was not voted in by a "huge margin", and California is only a blue state inasmuch as there are pockets of intense blue surrounded by violet to crimson seas.

I cannot believe that people think that majority rule should trump individual civil rights - especially here.

(in reply to MissDominae)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 1:57:10 PM

DreamGoddess666

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kybele

It was not voted in by a "huge margin", and California is only a blue state inasmuch as there are pockets of intense blue surrounded by violet to crimson seas.

I cannot believe that people think that majority rule should trump individual civil rights - especially here.

You got the point perfectly. The majority should NOT have a vote in trumping the civil rights of the minority. It's wrong. It's a violation of freedom.

EDIT: I would think anger is understandable in the face of unfair discrimination, especially when the religious right try to force their Bible down our throats. Whatever happened to freedom of religion, which also means freedom FROM religion?

< Message edited by DreamGoddess666 -- 5/26/2009 2:04:21 PM >

(in reply to Kybele)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 2:07:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kybele

It was not voted in by a "huge margin", and California is only a blue state inasmuch as there are pockets of intense blue surrounded by violet to crimson seas.

I cannot believe that people think that majority rule should trump individual civil rights - especially here.

Population wise it is overwhelmingly a blue state. Those violet to crimson seas may be wide, but they arent deep.

And to dreamgoddess, freedom is DEFINED by the people. It is an oxymoron to say that the majority cant trump freedom.

(in reply to Kybele)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 2:08:40 PM

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quote:

And to dreamgoddess, freedom is DEFINED by the people. It is an oxymoron to say that the majority cant trump freedom.

Was slavery okay, therefore, as long as the majority wanted it?

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RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 2:11:03 PM

DreamGoddess666

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dcnovice, you owned that one, bravo!

The majority should NEVER be allowed to oppress the minority. When that happens, it's time to fight for what's right, fight against oppression, fight for freedom!

(in reply to dcnovice)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 2:13:23 PM

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quote:

I would think anger is understandable in the face of unfair discrimination, especially when the religious right try to force their Bible down our throats. Whatever happened to freedom of religion, which also means freedom FROM religion?

Anger in the face of a perceived injustice is perhaps understandable.   Blind, unreasoning anger which proposes violence and killing as a solution to a problem is, respectfully, neither understandable nor likely to be effective.

Ellen has, as usual, given wise counsel.   Others here have made very interesting and valid points.   None have seen the need to resort to threats of violence in discussing this Proposition.   That should tell you something.

It is my belief that the majority only gets it "wrong" because they are not aware of or have not been informed of all the various ramifications and intracicies of a situation.   You can choose to educate or, through threats of violence, alienate, that majority.

Please choose wisely.

(in reply to DreamGoddess666)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 2:13:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

Whatever happened to freedom of religion, which also means freedom FROM religion?

It only means freedom from government mandated religion, not freedom from people voting on laws based on their religious beliefs. If there is ever a Muslim majority in the US, they could, under the Constitution, change every law to be consistent with Sharia, as long as Islam itself doesnt become the "state religion".

(in reply to DreamGoddess666)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 2:14:50 PM

DreamGoddess666

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We've tried. It went to a vote and it went to the courts. The Ban was put in place and upheld. All attempts to deal with teh religious right in a rational manner has . . . failed. What else is there to do, then? Just sit back and accept it? I think not.

(in reply to MissDominae)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 2:18:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

We've tried. It went to a vote and it went to the courts. The Ban was put in place and upheld. All attempts to deal with teh religious right in a rational manner has . . . failed. What else is there to do, then? Just sit back and accept it? I think not.

Nope. Spend another $70 million campaigning to try and get Prop 8 overturned. And it probably will be in a second vote, because those who disagree with gay marriage will have said their minds once, and wont bother too again. Thats the way the system works. Don't fool yourself that its just the "religious right" though.

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RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 2:20:15 PM

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If I remember correctly, Prop 8 was worded -just so- that many people did not realize they were voting to ban same-sex marriage.

It looks as though this battle will be fought state-by-state. In the end, SSM will be the law of the land.

As for a 2nd American Revolution, the zealots on both sides have been rambling-on about the same thing for years. I'm pretty sure it began 11/04/08. Let's hope the good guys win again.

~Dave

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RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 2:24:55 PM

DreamGoddess666

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

Nope. Spend another $70 million campaigning to try and get Prop 8 overturned. And it probably will be in a second vote, because those who disagree with gay marriage will have said their minds once, and wont bother too again. Thats the way the system works. Don't fool yourself that its just the "religious right" though.

That would fix the problem in California, but still leave over half the country as anti-gay. Some of those states will never allow gay marriage even in 100 years.

I think it's time the federal government stepped in and created an equal rights amendment to trump ALL state constitutions, thus rendering all bans on gay marriage null and void. Then again, the 14th Amendment equal protection clause SHOULD already do that, and yet it doesn't. I doubt I'll see a gay-friendly United States in my lifetime. I would wager that by the time I die, only 10 states will have allowed gay marriage.

Oh, and what happens if the ban is affirmed in another vote? Then would it be time to take up arms? I see it as a very real possibility that the gay marriage ban could be upheld. It passed once before against ALL odds, it can happen again.

(in reply to CruelNUnsual)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 2:28:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

If I remember correctly, Prop 8 was worded -just so- that many people did not realize they were voting to ban same-sex marriage.

Seeing as how the official description in the title of the voter guide was :

Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry. Initiative Constitutional

Amendment.

I think you would have a hard time saying your memory is correct.

(in reply to ThatDaveGuy69)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/26/2009 2:31:38 PM

DreamGoddess666

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Joined: 5/21/2009
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The ban simply shows that, if the United States passes itself as a beacon of freedom and human rights, that's a freaking JOKE. We may be better than, say, the Middle East, but Europe has us beat hands-down. EUROPE (okay, mainly Western Europe) is the beacon of freedom and hope and human rights in the world, NOT the United States. The United States is a fraud.

EDIT: Look, sorry if I'm abrasive, but I'm ANGRY. Extremely so. Civil rights are very important to me and a subject I'm well beyond passionate about. I believe in equality and this country continues to anger me by stepping on human rights.

< Message edited by DreamGoddess666 -- 5/26/2009 2:36:00 PM >

(in reply to CruelNUnsual)

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