'..and they shall take up serpents...'

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

'..and they shall take up serpents...'

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> '..and they shall take up serpents...'

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

'..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 3:18:53 AM

Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline

They Shall Take Up Serpents

"They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them."
Mark 16:17-18

For the past eighty years, believers living in the Appalachian hills of the southeastern US have incorporated handling serpents and drinking strychnine (a "salvation cocktail") into their religious beliefs and practice. While serpent handling has been outlawed in all but two southern states, there remain several thousand practicing snake handlers today, most of whom live in poor coal mining communities. In accordance with their faith, handlers refuse medical treatment when bitten. Nevertheless, there have been fewer than 100 confirmed deaths in the history of snake handling.

'On just about any warm afternoon you can find a weathered looking white haired man wandering the hills of remote West Virginia hunting for poisonous snakes, not to kill, but to bring back with him to church. He is a serpent handler..'

'I'm Dewey Chafin, fifty nine years old, I handle serpents.. thirty two.. thirty three years thirty four.. I've been bit a hundred and fifteen times.. and I've never seen a doctor for it.. '

'That's a lot of bites'.

'Why do I do it? Because the Bible says to do it..'

'These believers are steadfast in their beliefs of handling serpents and refusing medical treatment when bitten..'

'There's no set order or length to serpent handling services. They can go on for hours and hours.'

'About ten minutes into the service a young believer dances towards the boxes [of rattlesnakes] opens one of them and gently pulls out the rattlesnakes. He stares intently at each of them, and begins to dance, rattlesnakes in hand..'

Your thoughts and comments?

_____________________________

CM's Resident Lyricist
also Facebook
http://stella.baker.tripod.com/
50NZpoints
Q2
Simply Q

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 3:32:23 AM

Posts: 1128
Joined: 3/19/2005
Status: offline

It's rather beautiful.

There are other methods of snake handling or snake taming which are intended to result in not getting bit, by working with the nature of the snake. Snakes have evolved to have this method of defense. To agitate them and provoke them so that they bite seems a bit, to me, to be going against the nature that was created by that which they worship.

But I understand the desire to be close to these creatures that are held sacred by some, and the faith that you can commune with them and be held safe by Diety.

(in reply to stella41b)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 4:58:57 AM

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

I have mixed feelings about it.

My first gut instinct thoughts....."What a wack job a person has to be to take that snippit out of a creatively interpreted book and make it such a literal part of their lives"

My second thought....."Ooookayyyyyy, whatever floats your boat! It's your ass."

The reality is that I already have some strong anti-organised religioun views and the extremes, such as this one, only feed into strengthening my feelings. From a medical standpoint, it is obvious what is happening. They can attribute it to god all they want but, most people are educated enough to know otherwise. Which leads to another thought I have of this type of religioun. Usually not the brightest, most educated, or very vulnerable, seem to be drawn into any extreme religious practice. The people I've seen interviewed for articles and documentaries, on this subject, were indicative of the first two.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to stella41b)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 5:58:40 AM

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

I was 12 when my cousin in Alabama took me to a church like that. As soon as they let the snakes go, I knocked down several people bolting for the door. Never went back. To each their own, but there is also a passage in the bible about not testing god.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to stella41b)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 6:11:00 AM

Posts: 6174
Status: offline

as someone who was raised in the south, and has family scattered up in the appalacians, i can speak for us all when i say....

we think the snake handlers are fucking insane.

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to stella41b)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 6:23:02 AM

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

its all very well proving yourself with signs such as handling snakes and drinking poison, but that passage in Mark also describes the performance of other acts - casting out spirits, speaking in tongues, laying hands on the sick, as signs of those who believe. If the snake handlers dont do these other acts?

and its equally all very well interpreting things literally, based on a translation of a translation in which cultural expression must have played a part - snakes certainly and poison possibly (as I havent read the whole OT) have special associated kennings in the time and place these events are described and (later) transcribed - assuming they have been translated properly (we all should remember the confusion over "witch" and "poisoner" which led to genocide)

but in the end I really dont care what others choose to do as long as they dont expect to involve me and mine or impact on me and mine without my consent. good luck to them - though in this case it doesnt seem they need luck?

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 7:25:01 AM

Posts: 1128
Joined: 3/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

as someone who was raised in the south, and has family scattered up in the appalacians, i can speak for us all when i say....

we think the snake handlers are fucking insane.

Well, there is that.

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 7:46:14 AM

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

My comments having been born and bred in the Western PA part of the Appalachians and having delt with such people in my lifetime....

This isn't a miracle. This isn't even really a sign from God. It's a buildup of toxins in the blood. The strychnin is drunk in very small doses and ths bites don't usually leave enough poison behind to kill them so their systems build up an immunity to it all.

But eventually it's going to kill them. The body can only handle so much.

I think the powers of prayer and belief are wonderful tools and if this how they wish to practice their faith then imo let them. These are adults who most times are quite aware of the dangers. UMs are rarely involved. The churches are extremely small with less than 20 members many times.

These are mountainfolks who lead their lives in a fashion that is simple but powerful. They should be allowed to lead their lives in whatever ways they wish even if we may think it is strange.

(in reply to MadameMarque)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 8:23:30 AM

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

as someone who was raised in the south, and has family scattered up in the appalacians, i can speak for us all when i say....

we think the snake handlers are fucking insane.

We must be related since all my relatives who live in Appalachia think so as well.

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 8:29:01 AM

Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline

It's another example of how religion is a harmful influence on the lives of backward people.

Tell me, please, in what way is this any different than a bunch of kids poisoning themselves because they thought the mothership was following Halley's Comet? All because some religious authority told them it was so?

< Message edited by MarsBonfire -- 5/31/2009 8:30:54 AM >

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 8:34:57 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

At least they are not trying to spread their particular form of worship through force.

That said…

What would you think if your daughter or son decided to marry one of these snake handlers? Knowing that if they had children they may be indoctrinated in this lunacy?

Yea Yea… we all have choices...freedoms of this or that…but in reality how would you react?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 9:45:06 AM

Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline

For more of an inside look, check out Salvation on Sand Mountain. The author took up snakes at one service. According to him, only the snake and he existed, and gradually he felt his consciousness dissolving into the world. It reminded me of some meditation practises.

It's not a puff piece either.

thornhappy

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 9:47:44 AM

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Sheep will always be led to slaughter, if they follow the wrong shepherd. This is caused by human nature, and religion is just abused as is royalty status, celebrity status, or anything that generates a following. You cannot put this on all religion. There are philosophies out there that are equally as nuts as snake handlers or other sects that show dangerous signs or actions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

It's another example of how religion is a harmful influence on the lives of backward people.

Tell me, please, in what way is this any different than a bunch of kids poisoning themselves because they thought the mothership was following Halley's Comet? All because some religious authority told them it was so?

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to MarsBonfire)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 9:48:51 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
the bites don't usually leave enough poison behind to kill them so their systems build up an immunity to it all.

This likely is an example of natural selection in action. These people live in snake country. According to you they build up immunity against snake bites in controlled conditions. Thus if they are bitten by a snake in the wild, they have a much higher chance of surviving the snake bite.

Whereas people that do not share their snake dancing practice build up no immunity and when bitten by a snake in the wild, they die. Ergo: natural selection removes these non-snake dancing people from the population and favours the snake dancing allele.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. When in snake country, dance with snakes.

(in reply to littlewonder)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 9:51:04 AM

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

I have not checked it out yet, but I have family that lives on Sand Mountain, and that is where the church is/was when I was 12. My familiy up there think their are crazy, just like a few others have stated. Then again the kind of Christian my family practices would be like a primitive Christian. They keep the laws of Abraham, but believe in Christ. They are suspect of many teachings from others, and have no formal church other than at each other's home. They take turns doing sermons and they do not force the children to attend. Instead they do tell bible stories that have a moral to them, using parabel and metaphore to teach with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

For more of an inside look, check out Salvation on Sand Mountain. The author took up snakes at one service. According to him, only the snake and he existed, and gradually he felt his consciousness dissolving into the world. It reminded me of some meditation practises.

It's not a puff piece either.

thornhappy

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to thornhappy)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 10:36:23 AM

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

At least they are not trying to spread their particular form of worship through force.

That said…

What would you think if your daughter or son decided to marry one of these snake handlers? Knowing that if they had children they may be indoctrinated in this lunacy?

Yea Yea… we all have choices...freedoms of this or that…but in reality how would you react?

Butch

Have you seen those V-8 commercials......WHAP!!! right upside the head?

Seriously, I know my kids. If either one of them even suggested such a thing I would know they had a few screws that had come loose and a good WHAP would set them right again. Their momma isn't the only one in the family with a healthy dose of good, common sense.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 11:14:22 AM

Posts: 599
Joined: 3/31/2006
Status: offline

Does the practice belong into the same category with extreme skiing, bungee jumping and other stunts? I mean, it has really nothing religious in it but the purpose is just pleasure and excitement?

(in reply to stella41b)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 12:18:04 PM

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

Does the practice belong into the same category with extreme skiing, bungee jumping and other stunts? I mean, it has really nothing religious in it but the purpose is just pleasure and excitement?

No. From what I've seen of these folks they do it out of a literal interpretation of that verse in the bible. It is a charismatic christian movement so worship services do tend towards the religious ecstasy end of the spectrum but I don't think they're in it simply for the excitement.

(in reply to awmslave)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 12:23:37 PM

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Hah, I love those people who take everything in the bible literally. Especially the ones who believe in that "rapture" crap.
"Hey "Pastor," when you get "raptured" can I have your Cadillac?"
If I had to be with people like them for all eternity I wouldn't want to be raptured! Give me those trials and tribulations!
What if, instead of "picking up serpants" the bible said, "take a knife and cut off your dick and balls?"
Of course those people believe that "only they" will get "into heaven." I think that kind of thinking is an obsession.
I can just see God talking to them at the pearly gates; "Hey, what's with picking up fucking *snakes?"* I never said to do that! That was that wacko "Mark"!" You see *him* around here anywhere?" "He lived in a *cave*, he was *mentally ill* and he told *other people* to pick up snakes!" "You know where he is now?" "He's the fucking JANITOR over in Pergatory where I keep all those Catholics!"
"He's "picking up" something else now with a Shit Shovel!"
See? God talks to me too!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to awmslave)

RE: '..and they shall take up serpents...' - 5/31/2009 12:44:20 PM

cpK69

Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

They Shall Take Up Serpents

"They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them."
Mark 16:17-18

Your thoughts and comments?

"Who be "they"?"

Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to stella41b)

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> '..and they shall take up serpents...'

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.094