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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 3:04:44 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Maybe that is the difference...you are not a Christian.

Butch


 
Apparently, I am not.
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 3:06:17 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Maybe that is the difference...you are not a Christian.

Butch


 
Apparently, I am not.
 
the.dark.

lol... but you are a good person...I've always found that to be true here...just occasionally misguided.

Butch


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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 3:09:17 PM   
Truthiness


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Status: offline 		Jesus also does say to watch out for false prophets, that they will come in sheep's clothing but inward are wolves, and that we will know them by their fruits.

Mathew Chapter 7.

So, you asked before by what right I have to have doubts about if he's a Christian? Well...I have the words of Jesus.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 3:15:36 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Maybe that is the difference...you are not a Christian.

Butch


 
Apparently, I am not.
 
the.dark.

lol... but you are a good person...I've always found that to be true here...just occasionally misguided.

Butch


 
You are kind butch and sweet as always.
Yet, I concur that I am guided correctly.
 
the.dark.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 3:19:44 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

No, it doesn't direct the followers of Christ to do that. You're referring to something told to people long before Christ lived that doesn't apply anymore.

So just who gets to decide what parts of the Bible still apply. According to most christian churchs' teachings (to the extent that I am aware of them) hold that the entire Bible is valid and applicable.

Is it the entire Old Testament that doesn't apply, or just parts of it, and if just parts, which parts, and what authority do you determine which parts are invalid


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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 3:21:35 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I've always though good people are Christians whether they know it or not.... and the good lord knows as well...

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 3:24:48 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

Jesus also does say to watch out for false prophets, that they will come in sheep's clothing but inward are wolves, and that we will know them by their fruits.

Mathew Chapter 7.

So, you asked before by what right I have to have doubts about if he's a Christian? Well...I have the words of Jesus.


Oh so very yes.
The irony of kindness.
 
the.dark.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 3:25:53 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

So just who gets to decide what parts of the Bible still apply.


"Parts is parts."

--Frank Perdue

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 3:27:51 PM   
Truthiness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

No, it doesn't direct the followers of Christ to do that. You're referring to something told to people long before Christ lived that doesn't apply anymore.

So just who gets to decide what parts of the Bible still apply. According to most christian churchs' teachings (to the extent that I am aware of them) hold that the entire Bible is valid and applicable.

Is it the entire Old Testament that doesn't apply, or just parts of it, and if just parts, which parts, and what authority do you determine which parts are invalid



Well the answer is kind of beyond the scope of the topic hehe...but in a nutshell -

A lot of it is contextual. The Bible being "entirely valid and applicable" doesn't mean that all commands are meant for all people equally though. For example, Paul once wrote telling a church that the women should be silent in church, and not ask questions until after. A lot of people have assumed Paul to be a sexist, or that the Bible commands women to never speak in church.

The fact of it is though, the church that Paul was addressing had a problem with order in the church, due to women not being educated on the same level as the men, and they'd ask questions in church disrupting the service; so Paul was giving them advice on how to preserve order in that church.

The Old Testament was entirely written in a time period before Salvation was available through Jesus...and a lot of the laws reflected that. Once Jesus came; he offered a way to have sin wiped away without the need for animal sacrifices and the like. So we're not under the Old Covenant anymore, we're under the new one forged with the death and rebirth of Jesus.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 3:30:11 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Is it the entire Old Testament that doesn't apply, or just parts of it, and if just parts, which parts, and what authority do you determine which parts are invalid

You are a provocateur.

K.



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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 3:33:09 PM   
RCdc


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Status: offline 		By the way, you never answered my question.  Is it that you do not wish to?  Which is cool.
 
the.dark.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 3:34:58 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I've always though good people are Christians whether they know it or not.... and the good lord knows as well...


Then we might have to start another thread asking the reverse.
 
the.dark.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 3:40:41 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

No, it doesn't direct the followers of Christ to do that. You're referring to something told to people long before Christ lived that doesn't apply anymore.

So just who gets to decide what parts of the Bible still apply. According to most christian churchs' teachings (to the extent that I am aware of them) hold that the entire Bible is valid and applicable.

Is it the entire Old Testament that doesn't apply, or just parts of it, and if just parts, which parts, and what authority do you determine which parts are invalid



Hello Arpig
Technically, Jesus chooses.  Seeing as Jesus = God, well the math is easy enough.
It all comes down to Jesus stating that he was the fullfiment of the law (rough translation).  That does not mean that the old laws were to be forgotton - but that the rules were altered.
 
Some people think that God fucked up in the first place and had to cheat, rewritting the rules or at least.
Or that he added a caveat.
Some people think that God over estimated humanity and with a loving heart, gave them a second chance.
 
the.dark.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 3:57:18 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Some people think that God fucked up in the first place and had to cheat, rewritting the rules or at least.
Or that he added a caveat.
Some people think that God over estimated humanity and with a loving heart, gave them a second chance.

Kinda causes problems for the "omniscient" bit, don't it.

K.



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Profile   Post #: 274
RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 4:05:04 PM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		Ok, I get that, about the old coveneant and the new covenant, but what I asked was which parts of the old testament no longer apply.  Consider the following questions
1) Is bestiality a sin? (according to Leviticus, yes).
2) Should someone guilty of bestiality be put to death? (according to Leviticus, yes).

If it is still a sin, based on the OT, then why should not those who commit it be put to death, based on the exact same passage of the OT. I fail to see how you can justify only part of what is said, and reject the rest. If in fact there is a new covenant that replaces the old, then surely the new replaces all of the old, not just certain parts of it.

Earlier you answered that "A lot of it is contextual." This agree with, however, who decides the proper interpretation of the context? Nowhere in the Gospels does it say just what happens to the old laws now that they have been fulfilled, though the context of the statement is that the laws remain, yet are some how completed or fulfilled, whatever that means. Either the laws are still in effect, or they are not, yet Jesus specifically said he was not there to abolish the laws, so clearly they were still in effect. Yet you feel free to disregard those sections of the law that you interpret as having been superceded, without any valid scriptural basis for that decision. Now when somebody else decides to keep the parts you have arbitrarily discarded, you claim they are not "true" christians. Without any scriptural basis for the decision of what to keep or discard, every interpretation of it is equally valid, regardless of the contradictions this may or may not create with other parts of the Bible.

Anyway, I am sure I could go on clarifying the question, yet it still remains unanswered....What parts of the OT no longer apply, and on what authority does this judgement rest?

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Profile   Post #: 275
RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 4:15:50 PM   
Kirata


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Status: offline 		Maybe this will help...

The Old Testament

K.




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Profile   Post #: 276
RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 4:19:40 PM   
sweetgirlserves


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Status: offline 		I believe the answer to your question is that anything in the Old Testament relating to how sins can be forgiven (through sacrifices, etc) is no longer relevant.  I rest that on the authority of Jesus who said that sins were now to be forgiven through him.   The New Testament actually 'raises the bar', because people are no longer supposed to simply observe the letter of the law, but more importantly, the spirit of the law.   For one quick example, whereas the Old Testament claims murder to be a sin, the New Testament explains that "anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him."  1 John 3:14-15

The Old Testament says adultery is a sin, and the New Testament explains that any man who looks at a woman with lust in his eyes has committed adultery.

So if anything, the New Testament reinforces the requirements of the Old Testament, and actually raises the bar.  However, the New Testament also provides a means for forgiveness of sins through accepting Jesus Christ as your savior and Lord of your life.

~sgs

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 4:31:26 PM   
Truthiness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
yet Jesus specifically said he was not there to abolish the laws, so clearly they were still in effect. Yet you feel free to disregard those sections of the law that you interpret as having been superceded, without any valid scriptural basis for that decision.


Just clarifying (I think it's been brought up above too)...what Jesus said was that he wasn't there to abolish the law...but to fulfil it. Or...to complete it, wrap it up...

It's a common mistake when people say "Jesus said he wasn't abolishing the law" to forget the equally critical "but he's here to fulfil it" part.

As for the beastiality example...part of what Jesus did was to allow real erasure of those sins. Paul tortured and killed many before he became born again, and yet later was able to truthfully write that he had never harmed anyone. Because "If you be in Christ, old things have passed away and all things are become new."

Really, if you start digging into the Bible, it gives an entirely different picture of what sin is than most people realize. It's not about God trying to be strict and harsh, the New Testament says "Anything not of faith is sin..." which includes things like doubt. It's not something that God is sitting there waiting to punish you for...it's sin because it in one way or another hurts you spiritually or keeps God from being able to work in your life. (Yes, by the Biblical definition of sin...Job sinned every day even as God told Satan that Job was perfect, but Romans Chapter 4 tells us how God could say that and be totally truthful about it...but that's it's own tangent hehe).

Wondering now if I have the time and coherency to go back to the Hebrew in Genesis to explain what it is about homosexuality that makes it a sin Biblically...but that's a seriously involved topic going back to Adam's creation. (No "Adam and Steve" jokes involved either lol). And that's a tangent anyways as well.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 4:42:30 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

Paul tortured and killed many before he became born again, and yet later was able to truthfully write that he had never harmed anyone.

In other words, he was legally insane.

K.




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Profile   Post #: 279
RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 4:55:50 PM   
sweetgirlseeks


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

Paul tortured and killed many before he became born again, and yet later was able to truthfully write that he had never harmed anyone.

In other words, he was legally insane.

K.


LOL






< Message edited by sweetgirlseeks -- 6/5/2009 4:56:38 PM >

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