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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 12:48:18 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

Why don't you try your hardest to piss people off over something you don't even know for sure? 



       MissS, trust me on this, Phil is NOT trying his hardest to piss people off. 


...heh, nope i'm not. Trust me, you'll know when i am.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 12:49:58 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

FR

Story Update...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090531/ap_on_re_us/us_tiller_shooting
......so they have a suspect in custody. i was also heartened to hear that anti-abortion groups were quick to condemn this murder.


Willlllllnowwwwww...are you saying that there is a very very very slight chance that anti-abortionist Christian groups may not be terrorists after all...!!!!?



Butch


....let me guess, i call you out for putting words in my mouth, you reply by saying you were joking,  i say nothing but privately think you have a pretty poor sense of humour. Think that about covers that conversation strand.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 4:49:02 AM   
intenze


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Status: offline 		Anyone see the irony in killing for the right to life?

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 4:51:11 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Intenze, you said it just as I was doing the same thing:) gmorning world
Lucy


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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 6:06:18 AM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		Scott Roeder, arrested in the death of Dr. Tiller, is exactly what people feared.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/69151.html
http://www.adl.org/MWD/cocv1n3.asp
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19960417&slug=2324642

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 6:12:54 AM   
Sanity


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That's really a poor argument.  Say you don't believe in violence, and you see someone going berserk, and seriously hurting a lot of people. Stopping it wouldn't be hypocritical...  But just standing there would be.


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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 6:15:08 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Scott Roeder, arrested in the death of Dr. Tiller, is exactly what people feared.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/69151.html
http://www.adl.org/MWD/cocv1n3.asp
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19960417&slug=2324642



The only silver lining to this ugly cloud is that it will force the anti-choice lobby into defense mode. 

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 6:55:51 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Say you don't believe in violence, and you see someone going berserk, and seriously hurting a lot of people. Stopping it wouldn't be hypocritical...  But just standing there would be.


I'd immediately call 911. First, I need help, ASAP. And second, I need professionals trained to effectively handle such situations. Lots of other people are already there, and the situation is out of control.

What I wouldn't do is take the law into my own hands, start cruising around town looking for violent people--especially if they're "violent" only by my own narrow definition (hypothetically per the above quoted proposed scenario).

In your scenario, this "someone" is breaking the law. That's the difference, and that's why your analogy doesn't fit.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 6/1/2009 7:02:01 AM >

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 7:00:30 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


That's really a poor argument.  Say you don't believe in violence, and you see someone going berserk, and seriously hurting a lot of people. Stopping it wouldn't be hypocritical...  But just standing there would be.


Me I would be running a mile in the opposite direction...poor argument or not, I dont like violence, Ive been involved in it toooooo many times to believe I can right the wrongs that violence brings, unless I have something that will stop it without injuring anyone else....Im no hero, and yanno what I dont feel bad about that. Ive put my life in jeopardy one too many times, Ive done the stand up for myself and others thing and I know, my deathwish streak is yellow due to those experiences.

Lucy


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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 8:28:06 AM   
philosophy


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.........seems like this suspect is a prime example of US homegrown terrorism. Although i doubt he'll be treated as such, and i seriously doubt those connected with him will find themselves subject to the more extreme powers of the Patriot Act.  
i am curious as to this 'Freemen' group he is apparently connected with. Do any of our posters have any direct experience with them?

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 8:33:12 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

FR

Story Update...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090531/ap_on_re_us/us_tiller_shooting
......so they have a suspect in custody. i was also heartened to hear that anti-abortion groups were quick to condemn this murder.


Willlllllnowwwwww...are you saying that there is a very very very slight chance that anti-abortionist Christian groups may not be terrorists after all...!!!!?



Butch


....let me guess, i call you out for putting words in my mouth, you reply by saying you were joking,  i say nothing but privately think you have a pretty poor sense of humour. Think that about covers that conversation strand.


You put the words in the subject line...I am not joking.... You knew exactly what the response would be...no sense hiding your feelings now.

If you are going to be provocative in your insinuations then expect contempt.

Butch


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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 8:37:47 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You put the words in the subject line...I am not joking.... You knew exactly what the response would be...no sense hiding your feelings now.

If you are going to be provocative in your insinuations then expect contempt.

Butch



...i also put the punctutation in the subject line too. You do know what a '?' is don't you?
You seriously think that no-one was going to see that possibility? i put the question mark there because it is a fair question. Should this sort of thing be seen as terrorism? Is Christianity immune from being seen as capable of terrorism?

Read
More
Carefully......

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 8:42:51 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
...i also put the punctutation in the subject line too. You do know what a '?' is don't you?
You seriously think that no-one was going to see that possibility? i put the question mark there because it is a fair question. Should this sort of thing be seen as terrorism? Is Christianity immune from being seen as capable of terrorism?

Read
More
Carefully......


I don't know phil.  I also found the title rather invidious, question mark or not.  The fact remains, you never mentioned that the Doc was a christian, but that the perp possibly was.
 
I think that maybe it's a case of both reading and writing, more carefully.
 
the.dark.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 8:43:00 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

FR

.........seems like this suspect is a prime example of US homegrown terrorism. Although i doubt he'll be treated as such, and i seriously doubt those connected with him will find themselves subject to the more extreme powers of the Patriot Act.  
i am curious as to this 'Freemen' group he is apparently connected with. Do any of our posters have any direct experience with them?

The Freemen are basically the ultimate extreme of the anti tax conspiracy movement. The movements origins trace back to the Christian Identity and Posse Comitatus movements. While their beliefs vary quite a bit it usually is some variant of the belief that the US is controled by a secret conspiracy that used various innocuous laws, like the Uniform Commercial Code, to gain control of the nation, most adherents are anti semites and the conspiracy supposedly in control usually takes the form of a faceless cabal of jewish bankers.

The unifying theory is that through certain actions, renouncing their social security numbers and similiar, they can become free from all federal and state laws and are only subject to common law and in only special common law courts that they set up themselves.

They are famous for filing illegal liens against office holders as a form of harassment. Some believe a particularly far fetched variant which they use to justify writing checks on fictitious bank accounts.

In short they are an extreme anti government racist movement.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 8:45:41 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark


I don't know phil.  I also found the title rather invidious, question mark or not.  The fact remains, you never mentioned that the Doc was a christian, but that the perp possibly was.
 
I think that maybe it's a case of both reading and writing, more carefully.
 
the.dark.

 
...be fair. In the OP i didn't mention anyones religion. i left that to the link provided which clearly stated the victim was a Christian but left the identity of the perp unknown.

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 8:48:33 AM   
philosophy


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Status: offline 		...thanks for that Domken. Do they have any religious affiliation? Are there any Muslim Freemen? Or aethist ones?

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 8:56:01 AM   
cadenas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...thanks for that Domken. Do they have any religious affiliation? Are there any Muslim Freemen? Or aethist ones?


Apparently, they are pretty tightly linked with both Christian and White Supremacist and Male Supremacist ideas (one of the ideas is that only white men could be "sovereign citizens" as they called it but women and non-whites were regular US citizens), so the answer would be no.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 9:04:23 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy 
...be fair. In the OP i didn't mention anyones religion. i left that to the link provided which clearly stated the victim was a Christian but left the identity of the perp unknown.


I am being fair Phil.
I do find the title invidious.  It was a terrorist act.  It's was unfair to cite christianity as the major question - why not just leave it as terrorism?  You also went on to cite your pessimism that it wasn't a jealous husband or anything and pointed out that it was a fair point that it doesn't mean it was a christian when someone mentioned that point.
 
All I am saying is that I can see how the title of the thread could be construed as an attack on a specific religious movement, rather than an act of terrorism as a whole.
 
You pulled butch up for not reading carefully, I am just suggesting it might be a bit of both - reading and what was written.
Honestly Phil, what was the difference between the threads title and what a red top would print to get readers to read or respond?
 
the.dark.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 9:06:55 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You put the words in the subject line...I am not joking.... You knew exactly what the response would be...no sense hiding your feelings now.

If you are going to be provocative in your insinuations then expect contempt.

Butch



...i also put the punctutation in the subject line too. You do know what a '?' is don't you?
You seriously think that no-one was going to see that possibility? i put the question mark there because it is a fair question. Should this sort of thing be seen as terrorism? Is Christianity immune from being seen as capable of terrorism?

Read
More
Carefully......


A few cases of murder or attempted murder by deranged people over 25 years hardly justify even a discussion of the systematic coercion through terror, which is terrorism, as your subject line insinuates.

Please show me where the millions of both religious and non-religious anti-abortion advocates have ever condoned murder to further their agenda.

There is not even a hint of terrorism… and to suggest that there is insulting and provocative to the millions of good Americans struggling with this issue.

Rather than me read more carefully you should think more carefully before posting.

Butch


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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/1/2009 9:09:00 AM   
maybemaybenot


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Status: offline 		He's a freaking skinhead, not a < radical, right wing> Christian. Freemen of Montana was created by members of Aryan Nation. He is a terrorist alright, but not based on his religious beliefs. No more than the KK is a right wing Christian group. They may use religion to promote their cause, but they are in no way a religious group of any sort.

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/mom.asp?LEARN_Cat=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_America&xpicked=3&item=mom
 
 
 
 
 

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