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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/11/2009 8:30:44 PM

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Firstly, I consider myself as both a feminist and a Dom. A "feminist Dom" may sound like an oximoron, but it is not: I believe a good Dom mustn't violate his sub's rights and must respect the equality of his and her rights, make his demands satisfied by her will. And me preferring such a relationship doesn't mean that I think every male-female relationships should be like Gorean style. This is just what makes me happy, it's why I chose it.

"Women are often shy about this, not only because of the feminist movement, but also because of innate feminine modesty."

Do feminists really force the other women as "You are going to be equal! You have to be, we are forcing you!" and I didn't see it? The article is silly, indeed.

Also, we are living in an age where both husband and wife both have to work for their family. It must be considered.

< Message edited by SirLost -- 7/11/2009 8:38:17 PM >

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/11/2009 8:35:21 PM

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This thought pattern seems to rear it's head about every 30 years, whenever people forget how awful the 50's were.

It would work if ALL men were responsible for their families and actions and capable of making a decent living. When a woman finds herself involved in a bad situation, what is she to do? Just go find a better man or take responsiblity for herself?

It's only an opinion editorial... so I'm not too worried :)

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/11/2009 10:42:36 PM

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oops

< Message edited by GYPZYQUEEN -- 7/11/2009 10:57:21 PM >

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/12/2009 6:48:51 AM

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Oh, does this author mean the fictionalized romanticized past that never existed?

Do you have any idea how long people have longed for "the good old days"?

Since the second day, that's how long.

Do you know how long people have worked and hoped for "better days"?

Since the second day, that's how long.

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/12/2009 6:55:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LetsGetItRight

[color="#cc00cc" size="4"]Here's a recent article that will have Doms and submissives nodding, but might ruffle some Domme feathers! Is society a mess because we've strayed from the 1950's style of life? Or did the economy force us into equality of the sexes?

Check out Feminism and Its Effects on Society and see if you agree that women and society would be better off if traditional roles were honored.

No, but I think that gender stereotypes and people placing blame on others, rather than looking in the mirror, is bad for society.

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/12/2009 7:42:16 AM

subtlebutterfly

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Well..most of the people I know are just seeking equality..but the only feminists I know are unbearable incomprehensible morons that just..just..ok I'm gonna shurrup now...
but in short..I hate feminism.

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/12/2009 7:51:59 AM

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I have found it is not the original concept I dislike but instead, many of the people that attach themselves to that concept.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/12/2009 7:52:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly

Well..most of the people I know are just seeking equality..but the only feminists I know are unbearable incomprehensible morons that just..just..ok I'm gonna shurrup now...
but in short..I hate feminism.

Only because you are so very young. Your views will change immensly as you go through life.

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/12/2009 7:59:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LetsGetItRight

The question was simply food for thought. Perhaps if mothers had more time to spend with their children, the kids who grew up on their own while their moms worked might have turned out differently. Maybe there would be fewer kids on drugs, fewer kids who made bad choices in their lives, etc.

The people who share the authors views keep forgetting something rather important.
WWII.
Not just Rosie the Riveter ,but somebody had to become the provider when the men were all away.
Someone had to keep the cogs that ran the country going.
Women went to work.

However, the difference between then and now is that we were more connected to the community.
We don't know our neighbors anymore.
I personally believe that the death of the community is responsible for much of the negative stuff that you point out.

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/12/2009 8:27:54 AM

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That article started off pretty poorly and I just didn't have the stomach to finish it. Males and females are not equivalent. That, of course, has nothing to do with equality.

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/12/2009 1:08:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I have found it is not the original concept I dislike but instead, many of the people that attach themselves to that concept.

You know....I saw this thread yesterday and thought "Oh how can I address this topic whilst not becoming a charred cinder on the internet?" (No....that's not a question I always ask before I post. ;) But your comment here sums it up perfectly.

The concept itself is fine. The rabid ones who have used it as their flag for their own agenda -- those are the ones I dislike.

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/12/2009 2:11:19 PM

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I'm not here to argue, just to make my point and then go for a pint ... ... ...

Feminism may has destroyed so very many childrens lives. (errrr ... that was it)

Pirate

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/12/2009 11:35:30 PM

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*raises a pint in Jonnie's direction while most likely disagreeing*
Could you clarify what aspect of feminism you are referring to? It's broad topic, so more info is needed to make a proper response.

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/13/2009 12:42:01 AM

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I find it fascinating that there are people who still believe that the "success" of society depends upon women having to continue to be subjugated by men, because somehow that's going to make society more functional. No, what it does is make society rigid and incapable of growing. The feminist movement was a necessary step in achieving a fair dichotomy for men and women. At times, it's gone too far; other times, it's not gone far enough. But to believe that we need to force it back to Ozzie and Harriet norms is to spit on the very nature of equality that has been achieved.

I mean, I'm a male submissive, so obviously I have a problem with women being told to be subservient to men, but even if I wasn't a submissive, I have a problem with one gender being told it HAS to be subservient to the other, if that is NOT an individual's choice. I choose subservience for myself, but that's MY choice. If I would have come to this lifestyle because of society's demands, there's a pretty good chance I'd be marching with the others until we had equal rights again. But instead, I can choose to be subservient because it's a choice.

If a woman wants to be subservient, and that's her choice, I have no problem with that. Pretty good chance she won't be subservient to me, but that doesn't mean she can't pursue that. But to have some perceived dominant male come along and try to instill forced submission on women because "things were better" back then, that just bugs the crap out of me. I'm sure things were a lot better for some people when institutional slavery was in place. I'm sure things were a lot better for some people when only male landowners could vote. I'm sure things were a lot better when a king decided the life and death for everyone in his kingdom. But fortunately, we grew out of that mentality and enlightened ourselves. We can stay in the dark ages with the Christian church claiming the sun goes around the world, or we can grow with the times and welcome a future of great things for everyone, not just those who think that because men used to hit women over the head with a club that that is how it should always be.

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/13/2009 1:09:22 AM

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The forum the original article is posted on pays it authors if the bring in enough traffic, so there is a monetary incentive to say controversial and outrageous things and post links to draw in the suckers (the BS detector is ringing like crazy).

TechnoPagan

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/13/2009 2:11:25 AM

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We've got a lot of crazy terms flying around here, like "feminism" and especially "society". I wanna know... whose society? I didn't realize that all societies were based around male dominance, because last time I checked, they weren't. And there was a part in there about females basically being physically and psychologically inferior to males, which is completely bunk. Yes, humans are sexually dimorphic, males most commonly being larger, however, last time I checked we have a shitload of variance and psychology--as I recall--doesn't have too much to do with genetics. It has something to do with genetics but from my limited understanding, genetics are a minuscule factor. Finally, I'd like to say that (going ad hominem here just for the hell of it) Simon Baron-Cohen's Sacha Baron-Cohen's dad. Not to mention, the fact that the guy's later theories on autism are about it being some sort of extreme "male brain". I'm sorry, but that sounds like a crock of shit. Just throwing in my two cents

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/13/2009 5:42:24 AM

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The opinion piece is crap.

"The fact that males are superior to females cannot be disputed" That's a freshman liberal arts trick - if you want to make an unsupportable statement without any evidence, state that it cannot be disputed. To say it about a fact that a strong majority of the population would disagree with, takes real balls.

I couldn't understand the article. It seemed to consider "feminism" to be women being equal to men in the home, and ignored the workplace equality issues.

What really confuses me is that the article seems to hypotheticate a male-dominated household where suddenly the woman comes home with a Betty Friedan article and both man and woman say, "I'll be darned. We've been doing it all wrong!" and instantly do a complete role reversal. I'm a Dom and don't need any damned article saying what I can and cannot do. I tell a woman what I expect, and she accepts it or moves on.

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/13/2009 7:17:46 AM

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quote:

Feminism may has destroyed so very many childrens lives. (errrr ... that was it)

But how many childrens lives has it enriched? Instead of women being falsely perceived as weak and dependent on men, women are seen as intelligent and strong. I find a weak anybody, male or female to be a total turn off and a person hard to respect. If a child does not respect her/his mother then how will s/he treat women when s/he grows up? Not very well. The 1950's was full of abuse towards women and that was one of the main drives of feminism to stop the abuse.

Feminism works as long as it is not turned into a male hating religion of sorts. We were put on this earth to work together, NOT as one gender with particular sex organs lording over the other. Nature did not make that mistake, people did. We are evolving and still this age old division between the sexes exists, hopefully feminism will help it to disappear.

~Lashra

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/13/2009 9:22:44 AM

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Women who stay home with their kids, meet their friends, know where they are at all hours of the day and night, and make sure they are eating properly, going to school, doing homework, etc., aren't doing those things because they are weak individuals or their husband forced them to! It's the women who feel they can churn out the kids and then focus on a career while neglecting their upbringing that annoy me. Even those who leave their kids with babysitters or nannies... where is the parent's say in the morals and manners these kids will have?

i understand that women did a great job of running the country while the men were away at war and women are quite capable of being a man's equal in the workplace, but a mother's role at home is very special and can't be replaced even by a stay at home dad. i think today's kids have missed out on something special by being left alone so much.

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/13/2009 3:14:20 PM

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My mom was a stay at home mom until I was 11 and stayed at home for my older brother and sisters until they were out of the house. I don't nor have I ever done drugs but that is not because she was home. Did she spend time with me? LOL that was a side splitter.
My mom was depressed more often than not and spent her day on the phone gossiping with the relatives about whose child did what. She took valium or something like that to keep the "ladies issues" at bay.
Having her home did not stop me from being molested and raped. It did however influence me to keep my mouth shut for fear I would be thought of as being like "Julie" on Days of our lives, who teased a boy by wearing something that made him rape her.

People make those times out to be just like father knows best or leave it to beaver. They were not.
IF things were peachy and as happy as they were made out to be then feminism would not have risen. My mom would not have rushed to get a job as soon as it was possible. If things were so good, why was the need to change so great?
I am not a feminist. I do not believe one sex is greater than the other. I do not believe one sex is stronger than the other. Things balance out. I am a peoplist who has learned to adapt.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: LetsGetItRight

Firebirdseeking,

The question was simply food for thought. Perhaps if mothers had more time to spend with their children, the kids who grew up on their own while their moms worked might have turned out differently. Maybe there would be fewer kids on drugs, fewer kids who made bad choices in their lives, etc.

This is a forum for highlighting articles in the news that have to do with alternative lifestyles. As i explained in an earlier post, i'm new to this lifestyle and was curious what connection, if any, Feminism has to BDSM. i'm here to learn and to get involved. This was my first attempt at it. Perhaps the questions i asked were offensive, and i will keep that in mind the next time i'm curious about something. Thank you for your understanding response. :)

(in reply to LetsGetItRight)

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