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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/27/2009 11:25:26 PM

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[/quote]
. When one of the biggest problems stay-at-home moms face is judgement from other, working women.

[/quote]

Ah, if only this were true. I was recently on facebook and dealing with a discussion about my opinions in favor of universal healthcare. A fellow said I should have married better, planned for and saved up to have children....basically blamed me for the fact that although I work, it is not enough hours to qualify for health care.

Despite doing the "right thing" by being home to care for my kids after school, I am not only punished for it by society, but by (many) men who feel it is their God given right to put down single Moms.

I guess we are easy targets, given that we are responsible enough to care for our kids. Honestly most of you single men cannot say for sure you haven't fathered random children. But it is white men who are the biggest oppressors of women.

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/27/2009 11:29:32 PM

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The point of feminism was to give us the option to do and be whatever we wanted, just as the men are free to do and be whatever they want.

That includes the choice to be a stay at home Mom. It also includes the necessity to be a single working Mom.

Personally I think Single Moms should have more support from society, not the social pariah status we currently hold.

It doesn't feel liberating to me, but it is better than having my family take all my property, or my ex husband, which is how it used to be.

< Message edited by Lostkitten3 -- 7/27/2009 11:30:23 PM >

(in reply to MsFlutter)

RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/27/2009 11:33:49 PM

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The miscarriage that feminism has become has damaged the economy and the American family in genral and in my opinion. It sells everyone short and became not about having a choice but about having to be a superwoman and do everything.
And, I'm more than a little bit distressed by the suggestion that society ought foot the bill for someone's lack of use of birth control or failture to access the legal right to an abortion: can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em.
Davan

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May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
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It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
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(in reply to Lostkitten3)

RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 8:19:18 AM

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i remember a story once about a man that found himself in front of a soapboxed speaker calling for revolution for freedom for the people - and he questioned the theories of that man.the next day he found himself doing so again and the next.....the day after the speaker stormed off his soapbox and said" when the revolution comes you will do as you are told !"
i personally have no intention of doing as society tells me- its wrong to my mind
i'm a slave and a mother of two grown children, for me the most important thing once you have family is to *serve*them, and that also means doing whats best for yourself.sometimes i have worked sometimes i have not..depending what the needs of my family have been..... i have always found time for them.
if i might offer my opinion ,good parenting has nothing to do with having a penis or a vagina and why would it?, it has a lot to do with doing the right thing not the easy thing....and only saying no when you really mean it and having said it being consistent,
the freedom to make decisions that mould your own life and the lives of people you are responsible for is something that *unless you decide otherwise * HAS to be a right, if you have no children its your decision what you do with your life, some people that have children dont shift their priorities.

Freedom to be Women and equal...i do believe its a shame that some see that as an excuse to take on some *once seen to be traditionally male loutish* behaviour that we all said we hated in the first place....equally flawed..rather than enriching ?

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 11:07:09 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

The miscarriage that feminism has become has damaged the economy and the American family in genral and in my opinion. It sells everyone short and became not about having a choice but about having to be a superwoman and do everything.
And, I'm more than a little bit distressed by the suggestion that society ought foot the bill for someone's lack of use of birth control or failture to access the legal right to an abortion: can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em.
Davan

I love single men who talk about abortion. It's such an oxymoron. Especially since statistically 70% of all children are accidents, people pay thousands of dollars to procreate when they are no longer fertile, but financially sound, it costs 55,000 a year to keep an inmate in prison, and at least 100,000 to raise a kid to adulthood.

you don't have any kids that YOU know about. Doesn't mean they don't exists. Get a grip on reality.

(in reply to DavanKael)

RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 11:43:07 AM

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Davan's female, Lostkitten.

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 12:03:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

The miscarriage that feminism has become has damaged the economy and the American family in genral and in my opinion. It sells everyone short and became not about having a choice but about having to be a superwoman and do everything.
And, I'm more than a little bit distressed by the suggestion that society ought foot the bill for someone's lack of use of birth control or failture to access the legal right to an abortion: can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em.
Davan

I love single men who talk about abortion. It's such an oxymoron. Especially since statistically 70% of all children are accidents, people pay thousands of dollars to procreate when they are no longer fertile, but financially sound, it costs 55,000 a year to keep an inmate in prison, and at least 100,000 to raise a kid to adulthood.

you don't have any kids that YOU know about. Doesn't mean they don't exists. Get a grip on reality.

I'm a female, I have taken responsibility for my procreative potential.
You're an insult to females in that you haven't.
Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to Lostkitten3)

RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 12:05:36 PM

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Thank you, Peon. < hugs >
Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to DavanKael)

RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 12:56:58 PM

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Yeah, obviously. Let's bring back the days where rape within marriage wasn't a crime. And let's start shunning single mothers again. Actually, it's not just gender relationships that have gone wrong and need a return to traditional values. You hardly ever see "no blacks, no dogs, no Irish" signs in windows anymore. And you can't call a black person a n***** without the PC police breathing down your neck. And let's criminalise homosexuality again! And go back to BDSM being defined as a mental illness.

For. Fuck's. Sake.

_____________________________

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Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 1:16:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirLost

Firstly, I consider myself as both a feminist and a Dom. A "feminist Dom" may sound like an oximoron, but it is not:

To reply to someone who isn't a fuckwit, my view is it would only seem to be oxymoronic if somebody has no idea what they're talking about. In the same way the ocean might seem to be made of treacle if you've never heard of water.

The only incompatibilities that are there would be between being a feminist dominant (and arguably any kind of BDSMer) and some of the strands of radical feminism. I'm pretty friendly with the local anarchist-feminists and have a foot in the gender abolitionist camp. I've found no hostility towards BDSM from either of those strands, although some have suggested that male doms possibly need to look a bit more carefully at the issue of reproducing structual oppression, which I think is valid.

Quite honestly, whether they call themselves a feminist or not, I think any male dom is well advised to try and understand at least the basic arguments of the main strands. Including those theorists they don't agree with. I'm very far indeed politically from Andrea Dworkin. I'm still glad I've read her though. And have rejected her actual arguments as opposed to the caricatures of tabloid pundits.

As an aside, I won't hear a word said against Valerie Solanas. Shares with Dworkin the dubious accolade of being the most misunderstood feminist of. Seriously. Awesome woman.

_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

(in reply to SirLost)

RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 2:18:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: immoral
Freedom to be Women and equal...i do believe its a shame that some see that as an excuse to take on some *once seen to be traditionally male loutish* behaviour that we all said we hated in the first place....equally flawed..rather than enriching ?

Excellent point.

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 2:24:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3
Ah, if only this were true. I was recently on facebook and dealing with a discussion about my opinions in favor of universal healthcare. A fellow said I should have married better, planned for and saved up to have children....basically blamed me for the fact that although I work, it is not enough hours to qualify for health care.

I think you misunderstood my point. You work. My point was about women who don't and how they are often accused of "setting back the feminist movement' by other women. Those same women seemingly forget that the 'movement' was 'supposed' to give women the choice of what to do with their lives.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3
Honestly most of you single men cannot say for sure you haven't fathered random children.

I can say that without the shadow of a doubt.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3
But it is white men who are the biggest oppressors of women.

Apparently you've never been to a middle-eastern country.

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to Lostkitten3)

RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 2:25:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

Excellent point.

Yeah, it's valid. Although I'm pretty sure it's not got much to do with feminism per se. I can't think of a single feminist theorist who has argued in favour of "loutish behaviour", unless you can link me to one I'm unaware of. If not, it can't really be seen as young women using the concept of " Freedom to be Women and equal" as an "excuse" I think. It's likely to be down to other factors.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45
I think you misunderstood my point. You work. My point was about women who don't and how they are often accused of "setting back the feminist movement' by other women.

Um, Loki, you've forgotten to put a link to substantiate this allegation. Purely an oversight, I'm sure. I'm certain you wouldn't make a claim like this without the data to back it up.

As an aside, if you'll indulge me in my love for mythology, what inspired your choice of username? I'm just intrigued to why you would identify with quite such a transgressive god as Loki. I haven't really got the impression that you support transgression in this thread.

< Message edited by Apocalypso -- 7/28/2009 2:28:34 PM >

_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 2:26:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

The miscarriage that feminism has become has damaged the economy and the American family in genral and in my opinion. It sells everyone short and became not about having a choice but about having to be a superwoman and do everything.
And, I'm more than a little bit distressed by the suggestion that society ought foot the bill for someone's lack of use of birth control or failture to access the legal right to an abortion: can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em.
Davan

I love single men who talk about abortion. It's such an oxymoron. Especially since statistically 70% of all children are accidents, people pay thousands of dollars to procreate when they are no longer fertile, but financially sound, it costs 55,000 a year to keep an inmate in prison, and at least 100,000 to raise a kid to adulthood.

you don't have any kids that YOU know about. Doesn't mean they don't exists. Get a grip on reality.

I'm a female, I have taken responsibility for my procreative potential.
You're an insult to females in that you haven't.
Davan

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to DavanKael)

RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 2:29:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3
it costs 55,000 a year to keep an inmate in prison, and at least 100,000 to raise a kid to adulthood.

This is precisely why people come down on single parents, not necessarily divorced parents (in my opinion) because they are different. There is the couple who tried to make a family and simply could not, thus leaving a single parent. And there are those who say "I don't need a man, I'm gonna have me a kid (or 8) anyway!" And in my opinion, that's harmful to the kid. The woman may not "need a man" but if the child hasn't got two parents, or if those parents aren't raising that kid because they're never home...then we have a problem.

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to Lostkitten3)

RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 2:34:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45
This is precisely why people come down on single parents, not necessarily divorced parents (in my opinion) because they are different. There is the couple who tried to make a family and simply could not, thus leaving a single parent. And there are those who say "I don't need a man, I'm gonna have me a kid (or 8) anyway!" And in my opinion, that's harmful to the kid. The woman may not "need a man" but if the child hasn't got two parents, or if those parents aren't raising that kid because they're never home...then we have a problem.

So you know what we should do? We should come down on single parent families at every opportunity. Constantly run press attacks on them. Suggest that any children in those families are damaged. Nice idea. Certainly made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside as a kid.

_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 2:41:31 PM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LetsGetItRight

Women who stay home with their kids, meet their friends, know where they are at all hours of the day and night, and make sure they are eating properly, going to school, doing homework, etc.,

Oh good lord I loathe that word - they are CHILDREN or young adults, or teenagers - not kids - horrible word - they are NOT goats ffs and as a mother of teens who constantly has a houseful of my twos' friends, I can with full authority state that I have never read something so laughable and naive in my life.
If you cannot respect children then regardless of whether you are a stay at home or not, you won't know anything at all about their activites.

the.dark.

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RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 2:50:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso
So you know what we should do? We should come down on single parent families at every opportunity. Constantly run press attacks on them. Suggest that any children in those families are damaged. Nice idea. Certainly made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside as a kid.

You're right, let's do the opposite. Let's encourage teen mothers. Let's say to them "oh it's ok that you can't afford that child, go on and have it anyway, the state will give you money for it...have another and another...you get more money the more you have, you know that, right?" And then we'll say "awww that's too bad" when they raise criminals and set them loose on society. That's such a better option, right? It's sure worked out great for society so far, hasn't it?

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to Apocalypso)

RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 2:52:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45
You're right, let's do the opposite. Let's encourage teen mothers. Let's say to them "oh it's ok that you can't afford that child, go on and have it anyway, the state will give you money for it...have another and another...you get more money the more you have, you know that, right?" And then we'll say "awww that's too bad" when they raise criminals and set them loose on society. That's such a better option, right? It's sure worked out great for society so far, hasn't it?

So you think it's worth children getting bullied in the playground, to make a political point. How pleasant.

_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: Feminism bad for society? - 7/28/2009 2:53:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso
So you think it's worth children getting bullied in the playground, to make a political point. How pleasant.

I got bullied on the playground as a kid. I don't recall it having anything to do with whether or not my parents were divorced. Somehow in my mind "you're funny lookin' and a geek" doesn't translate into "you're parents should be married!" Maybe it does for you, I don't know. It's a weird connection to make though, don't you think?

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to Apocalypso)

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