Apocalypso
Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3
Most women don't beg to not use a condom, a few do, most don't. That is men who do that. It makes no difference to most women, in my experience. So saying it takes two to tango, is a little skewed.
To be fair, I have one ex who refused pointblank to use condoms. Although her argument was that she was allergic to latex and didn't consider dying safe sex. Which I think is a strong case. That's obviously a special circumstance. I can honestly say though, that my personal experience suggests something different to yours.
Begging is way overstating it, but I've had a sizeable number of women who have told me they don't enjoy sex as much with condoms. However, the ones I was sexually involved with at the time (the minority) were both conversations within an established relationship. And a clothed conversation, rather then a prelude to sex. And the others were all platonic friendships. So I think it's likely that for many of them this wouldn't have meant they didn't use them.
But yeah, this one isn't complicated for me. Man or woman, if you don't want to use condoms for penetrative sex, you need to be in a relationship that is settled enough for communication and negotiation to take place and risks minimised. If you don't want to be or can't find a relationship and are having casual sex, if you don't want to use condoms, then there are some perfectly enjoyable activities that carry far less of a risk without them. If you are still only capable of seeing penetrative sex as 'real' sex, you need to get out more. And, I have to say, if the argument is "I want casual penetrative sex, without condoms", my empathy is somewhat drained by this point.
But where I disagree with you is that, actually, I do think that applies equally to both. When talking about responsible adults, saying no is as much as a responsibility as saying yes. Even if they beg. I would have little truck with "he begged me to inject heroin before having sex with him" as an argument. (For obvious reasons, I am not talking about things like established TPE relationships here).
I think the "she begged me" argument, specifically, touches on a vital set of issues however. Because it feeds into some of the most dangerous, pervasive myths around. And one's that need killing. Repeatedly. Namely:
- Real men want sex all the time with anybody available. (A more subtle version of that merely claims it's with anyone they're physically attracted to, regardless of anything else).
- Men who are aroused lose the ability to refuse sex or even think properly, therefore they are less able to control their actions. (This includes "men think with their dicks" comments).
- Losing your virginity is what makes a boy a man.
Because those are highly detrimental to teenagers. And destroying them would have a major impact on teenage pregnancy. Because of course those of us who believe that sex education and contraception is the way forward don't want to see more school aged students having sex. I want to see as few as possible doing so, because I do not believe the vast majority are in any way ready. Based on personal experience.
Because at 14, I was desperate to lose my virginity. And that, specifically. I wasn't that fussed about having sex, but that was a necessary part of it. And I didn't want to. I felt I should do. But I was completely clueness in how to achieve that goal. (Thanks in part to my evil irresponsible single parent mother who pushed the idea that friends were girls and boys from a very early age. And no matter how desperate I felt, I was never able to see girls who weren't my sisters as goals, because I'd always interacted with them as people).. So my teenage quest failed miserably and I went back to my books.
Lucky that. Because if I'd have succeeded, I'd have seriously fucked my head up. Being as my intelligence had massively outpaced my emotional maturity. Add that to an overactive imagination and you'd have had a kid in a real danger of going completely haywire. Even worse, the fact I was fucked up would I fucked me up. Because everyone knew boys liked having sex. I accept I may well have been an extreme example, but I'm pretty sure most kids that age weren't that much more mature or stable than me.
In the end, I lost my virginity at the ripe old age of 19, to a girl I was dating from my course. And, obviously, it was awkward, clumsy and a bit embarassng And there is nothing about it I regret or would change. And I don't know one of my friends who lost it early on who would say that and a good number would change the fact it happened at all at that point.
So that's why those things are so importtant. Not just would it reduce the number of teenager pregnancies, destroying these would reduce the number of screwed up teenagers. Because I'm pretty sure that, left to my own devices, this story would end the same, without the worrying. Aside from feeling that I was doing something wrong, I was perfectly happy letting things bimble along at my own pace. And the fact that my first ever proper girlfriend and I expressed our affections mostly through the medium of sitting under random tables, playing footsie and giggling was actually my idea of the perfect relationship at the time. (I still bump into her from time to time and her memories are equally good which is nice). And we need to stop telling kids like me that isn't really the case.
_____________________________
If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.
|
RE: Feminism bad for society? - 
Profile
But I completely accept that you've met some really vile people, some of who were feminists. But I suspect those people would have been vile people if they weren't feminists. 
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread