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RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/16/2009 9:08:57 AM

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I agree with Kia on this point.

Just because a guy/bi has a penis, and may like other penises sometimes, dose not mean he wants YOUR penis. That's the big thing about homophobia I think, its an egotistical hatred or fear of gay/bi men. Not all gay or bi men want to fuck every straight man out there!! What would be the point? You(general you) would not enjoy it, He would not enjoy it, this is one point where (barring the female partners of bi-sexuals for a minute) being with their "own kind" is not a bad thing.

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RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/16/2009 9:22:56 AM

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Yeah, there's a kind of hyper-extrapolation thing that goes on with this line of thinking that's even a little insulting to men, if taken far enough. It goes something like: Men are predatory, hyper-consuming sexual animals, but women help keep it in check. Women say no. Women purify. Etc, etc. But if a man likes other men, well that's a predating hyper-consumer seeking another predating hyper-consumer, & a blood-orgy will necessarily result much of the time . . . . . (I am way exagerating for rhetorical effect, yes.) The men-are-out-of-control-sexual-beings meme -- personally I find that an insulting assumption . . . . .

The point being that the labels bisexuality, homosexuality, & heterosexuality actually give no information as to the predisposition of the holder of said label to exercise various forms of self-control . . . . . Otherwise, I could just taint all holders of the label 'straight monogamists' with the sins of those who claimed those labels but behaved otherwise; such actions have little to do with the labels & everything to do with the individuals own choices & conduct . . .

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

I agree with Kia on this point.

Just because a guy/bi has a penis, and may like other penises sometimes, dose not mean he wants YOUR penis. That's the big thing about homophobia I think, its an egotistical hatred or fear of gay/bi men. Not all gay or bi men want to fuck every straight man out there!! What would be the point? You(general you) would not enjoy it, He would not enjoy it, this is one point where (barring the female partners of bi-sexuals for a minute) being with their "own kind" is not a bad thing.

(in reply to Sunnyfey)

RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/16/2009 9:26:19 AM

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quote:

...That's the big thing about homophobia I think, its an egotistical hatred or fear of gay/bi men...

it has been this slave's experience with homophobes that they have an egotistical hatred or fear of the gay/bi man within themself...and then they take out their frustration on other gay/bi men in the form of hate/intolerance.

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RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/16/2009 10:04:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

ok, ok Im back and hopefully 'ants in his pants' has retired!

I am not a swinger... honestly I'm not Davan but I have been told that at a swinging party you will never see man on man (unless of course its a gay swingers party). That you will see plenty of girl on girl but man on man is a complete no no.
I wonder if thats because women just wouldn't cope with that kind of spectacle ? women can do it in public but lets keep the boys stuff behind closed doors.

Hi, Maria----
Agreed to the retirement of a certain creature. He's running around affronting several people I consider friends. Not good.
I don't think you're a swinger (Not that there's anything wrong with swingers). :> Here's a bit of what many would consider an odd scenario. I was in a poly relationship with a swinger for a year and a half (Actually, the bi guy with the cum fetish I mentioned above).
The no guy-on-guy stuff is 'old school' truism regarding swinging (Although, he said that wasn't really even true, it was just seriously 'on the down low' years ago) but a number of clubs are becoming more open, having 'bi' nights even where they make it clear that guy on guy is welcome.
It varies by venue and crowd but there is, in some instances, more acceptance of bi- males in the swing community than there used to be.
Hope your week's going well! :>
Davan

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RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/16/2009 10:07:22 AM

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quote:

How would you feel about your Dominant/Master being bi ?

Doesn't bother me.

quote:

Would you not get involved if you read that he was bi on his profile?

IF I was interested in finding someone, once again, being bisexual would not bother me.

quote:

Would it make a difference to your relationship if you were suddenly told he was bi?

Nope

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RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/16/2009 10:15:10 AM

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Thanks Davan.... I am booked into the local swingers club for next Friday..... voyeur of course !

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RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/16/2009 10:20:30 AM

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Oh, yeah, absolutely. Homophobic reactions always cause me to wonder about the hidden issues of that homophobe . . . . . Closeted male bisexuality is much more pervasive than is given credence, in my experience, & not just on the conservative-fundamentalist end of the spectra . . . . & the more upset homosexuality makes the person, the more it plugs their buttons, the more I suspect that they have suppressed / denied desires boiling away in their interior . . . . .

(I also have this totally off-topic pet theory that one of the significant roots of fascism is repressed male homosexuality . . . . . )

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

it has been this slave's experience with homophobes that they have an egotistical hatred or fear of the gay/bi man within themself...and then they take out their frustration on other gay/bi men in the form of hate/intolerance.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/16/2009 12:45:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
Thanks Davan.... I am booked into the local swingers club for next Friday..... voyeur of course !

Hi, Maria----
Now, if you and Steve were going to be having sex with each other and others were having sex with each other and you were all in proximity to be able to watch one another, that would be referred to by some as 'soft swing'.
Hope you have fun!!! :>
Davan

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May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
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It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

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Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
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RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/17/2009 12:32:25 PM

Toppingfrmbottom

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Actually my understanding of a soft swing would be you share someone with someone else but there's limits to the sharing. Like he may spank you silly and finger you while the wife watched but he may NOT fuck her and she may not suck him off ect ect.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Now, if you and Steve were going to be having sex with each other and others were having sex with each other and you were all in proximity to be able to watch one another, that would be referred to by some as 'soft swing'.
Hope you have fun!!! :>
Davan

(in reply to DavanKael)

RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/18/2009 4:51:42 AM

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http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=22160

The results of this study are in accord with my experience. Having spent 40 odd years in Fire Island Pines, the men I have known to announce themselves as bi males are usually gay men who are unsure about admitting that. They like women as friends and try to have that be enough to have a relationship with women, but usually it's because they don't want their family to know the truth. Plus they may still want a traditional wife and children family situation, just without any sexual relationship with the wife.

And because I've seen this too many times, I wouldn't have a relationship with a bi male. He might be able on occasion to have sex with me, the odds are overwhelmingly that he wouldn't have a strong erotic love relationship with me.

It is odd that bi males are overwhelmingly aroused solely by men on men pics but bi females are aroused by either male female or female female porn. I wonder what causes this discrepancy.

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RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/18/2009 5:19:17 AM

ranja

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If my Husband would suddenly express a desire to try to be bi (unfortunately extremely unlikely) i would very much hope that He would still want to remain Dominant...and also that the man He wanted to try His bi'ness on was bi himself so i would get multiple action aswell (i am greedy)... hmmm i can see very nice possibililties.
It would not be a deal breaker at all.... unless He wanted to submit to another man and wanted to leave me out of the action...

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RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/18/2009 12:24:32 PM

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Des, thanks for that link. I adore Dan Savage . . . . .

This (lengthy) NYTimes mag. article (which I also have posted in the News forum):

What Do Women Want?

discusses those desire studies, the male & female ones & that differential you're curious about . . . . .

As for the rest, the complexity of how people actually act, for me, is better explained with a more complicated model of sexuality. A tripartite model of desire: physical, emotional, social . . . . . (Noting that those plethysmograph studies of desire discussed in Savage's article are measuring solely the physical desire part . . . . )

There are those who only want the opposite or the same sex for all three aspects of their romantic-sexual-BDSM existence. Those could be termed 'extreme heterosexual' or 'extreme homosexual', respectively . . . . (Or, more informally, 'gay separatist' or 'lesbian separatist'. Tho' there's not really any such thing as 'straight separatist' . . . . ) & everyone else would fall in between those extremes . . . .

For example, I'm physically most attracted to men, I have the strongest consistent emotional connections with women, & I'm egalitarian (ie, bi) in my social choices . . . . .

& there are those who's combo goes the 'wrong' way -- men who are physically attracted to men but emotionally attracted to women particularly strike me as being in a tough situation . . . . . That is, their innate tendency is to love women & lust for men . . . . . .

& note that for those who are asexual, the emotional & social aspects are probably what provides that person's satisfaction & joy & etc, disproportionately . . . . (I believe asexuality has been estimated at ~2% of the general population . . . . )

& speaking of labels: one label for the opposite of a bisexual is monosexual. I'm quite fond of that one . . . . .

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=22160

The results of this study are in accord with my experience. Having spent 40 odd years in Fire Island Pines, the men I have known to announce themselves as bi males are usually gay men who are unsure about admitting that. They like women as friends and try to have that be enough to have a relationship with women, but usually it's because they don't want their family to know the truth. Plus they may still want a traditional wife and children family situation, just without any sexual relationship with the wife.

And because I've seen this too many times, I wouldn't have a relationship with a bi male. He might be able on occasion to have sex with me, the odds are overwhelmingly that he wouldn't have a strong erotic love relationship with me.

It is odd that bi males are overwhelmingly aroused solely by men on men pics but bi females are aroused by either male female or female female porn. I wonder what causes this discrepancy.

< Message edited by DemonKia -- 9/18/2009 12:25:22 PM >

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/19/2009 2:42:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

...the men I have known to announce themselves as bi males are usually gay men..

It is odd that bi males are overwhelmingly aroused solely by men on men pics but bi females are aroused by either male female or female female porn.

The men you have known to announce themselves as bi males told you they usually are gay men or were did you get that information? You are really saying others know better what orientation these men have and men calling themselves bi are incapable to judge about themselves?

The article says: ''75 percent of the bi guys only got aroused by watching boys; the other 25 percent only got aroused watching girls. Non responded equally to images of men and women.'' How do we know, when they watched ''girl-on-girl porn and boy-on-boy porn'' if ''none responded equally to images of men and women'', is what I would like to know. Why doesn't it say most hetero men get aroused by fellatio and that they don't relate to sexual images not showing male genitalia? Savage would conclude all men are gay when confronted with this common fact. You forgot to mention only a small group of men were involved and that the study is put to the sword. Were does it furthermore say ''bi females are aroused by either male female or female female porn'' as you claim? ''Boy-on-girl'' moreover is not the same as ''men-on-woman''.

There are also studies claiming more than 99 percent of those calling themselves lesbian claim having (had) voluntary sex with men when asked anonymously. This would mean lesbians do not exist! Other studies claim a significant amount of females calling themselves heterosexual have (had) sex with girlfriends and as youngsters teach one another to masturbate (also) stimulating one another physically. Several females I know confirmed having done this.

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RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/19/2009 4:25:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

It is odd that bi males are overwhelmingly aroused solely by men on men pics but bi females are aroused by either male female or female female porn. I wonder what causes this discrepancy.

How much porn do men watch? How many girl on girl or man on woman porn has he seen in his adult life? I personally haven't watched that much porn because its sooooo boring..... woman sucks man/man licks woman/woman licks woman/man fucks woman/woman tries to look like she's enjoying it. Its the same old same old and for me at least it takes something a little unusual or different to make me sit up and watch.
I wonder how many of these men had watched hundreds...perhaps thousands of same old porn and the gay porn was in the 'a little different category'

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RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/19/2009 6:40:18 AM

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Kia, I wouldn't normally consider my social choices to be part of my sexuality. Besides, that varies depending on what I'm doing.

Going to the bookstore, I want another reader who understands how you can easily spend three hours there.
A baseball or football game? Probably a male who can explain what I'm seeing.
Clothes shopping? Usually another woman unless it's intimate apparel at which point I want my partner, since I'm primarily interested in his response to such items.

But even an extreme lesbian could enjoy having Thanksgiving with her family, all the partners and children gathered together, watching a bowl game with her father or brother or brother in law. Or visiting a college roommate and her husband.

Most of the gay men I've known prefer staying in a society of their own but that I believe is because of safety. With other gay males they don't have to worry about being verbally or physically attacked. But my mother was a bridge player and there were many gay males whose partners didn't enjoy the game, who were perfectly happy playing with her.

Maria I also find porn tedious in the extreme. But straight men who watch porn don't get bored with it. Thirty years after puberty, they're still happy to watch a man inserting his tab into a woman's slot. And they don't get turned on by gay porn. So I don't think you can explain the discrepancy to tedium.

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RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/19/2009 7:29:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Maria I also find porn tedious in the extreme. But straight men who watch porn don't get bored with it. Thirty years after puberty, they're still happy to watch a man inserting his tab into a woman's slot. And they don't get turned on by gay porn. So I don't think you can explain the discrepancy to tedium.

I can't agree on this, especially as this was the very subject a whole load of us were discussing the other night. Out of those people 5 of them were straight men but straight men into BDSM type stuff. They all said that normal porn held no excitement for them unless it was kink related or a classic such as deep throat.
Straight men may well not get turned on by gay porn and bi men may well get turned on by gay porn but the study was with just 33 men and I don't see that as a credible study number to reach a conclusion. The man that led the study admits that those men could of been leaning more to the gay side.
The scientific term for this is .....
Observation doesn't imply couse-ation (just because a high number of bi men (in a small group) liked a certain thing does not mean any of these men are gay.
The thing about published results is they are there for other people to test. The idea being that other groups of researchers will replicate the experiment to see if they get the same results.
Further to that, my understanding of the difference between bi and gay is to do with relationships and preference of.

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RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/19/2009 7:42:21 AM

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There were a few of us here that said we would not take on a bi man even if he was dominant. But none of us who felt that way are homophobic. Nor did any of us say we were opposed to homosexuality. I think all of us who said that would probably fight along side anyone for sexual freedom and gay rights. We all have our preferance of who to have a relationhip with. Some people even wont take on someone shorter or taller then them. Some have a preferance for large penises or big breasts or blond hair. I have bisexual friends and gay friends and yes, I am mildly bisexual in the right context. But I choose relationhips with straight dominant men only.

I did not repond back til now because I chose not to get involved in an argument or pissing match with a troll who is here to be combative.

I can only tell everyone here that I wish for all to follow their bliss but to be tolerant of others.

(I do appreciate all who took on the troll with logic and insight. Even if it was a futile experience.)

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RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/19/2009 10:12:03 AM

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The Dom that I have played with is bi but he is not attracted to men per se. He enjoys anal stimulation but will not fuck a man. No kissing, nothing "intimate" so to speak. I know this because we met during a threesome. It's a long complicated story but the threesome was for my benefit. I wanted to see two guys fuck. I was seeing the one who later flaked out on me but kept in touch with the Dom (who later introduced me to the lifestyle). Fifteen years ago he started as a 24/7 live in sub to a couple. He served both of them. Since then, there has been minimal play with men. I understand and believe what he says. It's totally about stimulation not being bi or gay.

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RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/19/2009 11:10:42 AM

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Des, the model offered works for me; if it doesn't resonate with you, that's fine . . . . I offered up because there are probably others reading who may find that model at least a little insightful & useful . . . . . .

I know that the social component is the least obvious, but since most people make their sexual partner choices out of the their social circle, it does have a profound impact on one's sexuality, tho' maybe not the most obvious one .... . & social circles themselves have a profound impact on how our mating relationships work out in the long run . .. . (& I would fold family into social circle, they're part & parcel of that .. . . . )

I note that many women are 'socially lesbian', that is, they prefer to socialize with other women even tho' they may be only interested in fucking men . . . . & they have their best emotional relationships with women, frequently much richer emotional relationships with their best girlfriends than anything they ever end up having with any boyfriends . . . . In my experience, that's pretty common . . . . .

& I've met plenty of lesbian separatists in my life, they just don't want to have anything to do with men. Period. Socially, sexually, whatever. Not a safety thing, they just want to live within their own woman-culture . .... & the gay male separatists I've known have been more about escaping the omnipresent straight culture than any kind of safety thing. (But this may have something to do with having lived in Cali all my life, where it's much 'safer' to be queer than many other parts of the planet . . . )

But mostly my point was that if we just talk about who people wanna fuck, that's a limited (if important) component of the totality of people's romantic-sexual-BDSM lives . ... .

& some of those mismatched components can be very difficult, most especially when men lust for other men but love women. I've known quite a few men who fit into that category, who are technically bisexual but live as straight guys because they have no interest in having relationship with men but they have these cravings to suck cock . . . . . Which is part of what Dan Savage is alluding to in discussing bisexuals, I think . . . . .

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Kia, I wouldn't normally consider my social choices to be part of my sexuality. Besides, that varies depending on what I'm doing.

Going to the bookstore, I want another reader who understands how you can easily spend three hours there.
A baseball or football game? Probably a male who can explain what I'm seeing.
Clothes shopping? Usually another woman unless it's intimate apparel at which point I want my partner, since I'm primarily interested in his response to such items.

But even an extreme lesbian could enjoy having Thanksgiving with her family, all the partners and children gathered together, watching a bowl game with her father or brother or brother in law. Or visiting a college roommate and her husband.

Most of the gay men I've known prefer staying in a society of their own but that I believe is because of safety. With other gay males they don't have to worry about being verbally or physically attacked. But my mother was a bridge player and there were many gay males whose partners didn't enjoy the game, who were perfectly happy playing with her.

Maria I also find porn tedious in the extreme. But straight men who watch porn don't get bored with it. Thirty years after puberty, they're still happy to watch a man inserting his tab into a woman's slot. And they don't get turned on by gay porn. So I don't think you can explain the discrepancy to tedium.

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Would you take on a bi Master/Dom? - 9/19/2009 12:39:28 PM

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Well. I will argue with you about Cali being a safer place to be queer than the gay communities on Fire Island.
No discussion about wanting to get out of a relentlessly straight culture that puts pressure on you to conform.

Although as a straight woman, I've never had any pressure to conform to the all gay society I've summered in all my life. However it may well be that because I've primarily known bi men in a gay society, they felt the urge to conform and therefore treated the women they were involved with as second class citizens.

I'm not sure that we do now pick our partners from our social group. Not today with the internet. I've read that one in eight finds a partner online. Not sure about the accuracy of such stats.

I'm straight, not interested in bi males except as friends, and definitely not homophobic in any way.

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