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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/7/2009 2:11:19 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

You shut it, infidel!!


my hero!

porcelaine


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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/7/2009 2:11:21 PM   
Lucienne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
I am simply stating my opinion based upon what I have read. I am not getting upset and sniping about perceived sniping. So I shall give you another catch phrase. "If you cannot stand the heat, get out of the proverbial kitchen." Of course you won't, you are another that enjoys the emotional satisfaction of building, and standing upon, a fantastical pedestal.

There are a number of M/s relationships represented on these forums that I would not wish to be a part of. Yet I am long past thinking I need to save or convert anyone else. If it works for them, if they are happy and fulfilled..........faaaaabulous! If they are not, then it is up to them to do something about it.



Yeah, that is totally me. I'm still in this thread because I find it interesting. The degree of projection going on is fascinating. I've got people here who can barely read my words but they think they can read my mind.

At no point in this thread have I sought to "save" or "convert" anyone. I have expressly disclaimed that goal. And yet here you feel it is necessary to discuss such things in response to me.

I also remain deeply amused that this thread is considered a flame war, trainwreck, or particularly dramatic by community standards. You talk about heat in the kitchen, apparently there are plenty of people here who can't handle a tea kettle.

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/7/2009 7:00:01 PM   
Amaros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

If he weren't smashing ribs and busting her eyes and all that, do you really think any of this would be an issue?

The irony of drawing any line of consent at mutually-agreed bodily harm on a BDSM community site is almost too ridiculous to believe.



Agreed.  This thread is the worst example of  'my kink is better/more valid/etc.' that I've seen in 2 years and nearly 3,000 posts on this site.  I remain astonished at the presumption of some as well as the judgmental attitudes toward ADULTS DOING WHAT THEY WANT IN THE PRIVACY OF THEIR OWN HOMES!!! 
To the psychological argument, I've devoted many years and many more thousands of dollars to the study of it.  I have numerous state-approved letters after my name and all that happy mess and some really, really cogent points that select folks seem to be missing are that:
**A diagnosis is not generally rendered without there being an impairment of fuctioning/disruption to one's life/etc.  Ergo, if someone is happy in their relationship and they're functioning within their life roles, it's probably not a diagnosable issue.
**It's really freain' difficult to have a person declared legally incompetent.  And, it's not something that once done can not be undone. 
**Typically, kicking the victim is frowned upon yet some people have dubbed a particular individual a victim and have then sought to lambaste her into submission...abuse, anyone?!
There are more points than those, psychologically speaking, but this thread is a fantastic reason why I'm me, I don't profess to be part of a 'community' or a 'lifestyle' or whatever because I don't generally enjoy the holier-than-thou theatrics that such designations often breed. 
Davan
You need to turn in your shingle - she has been determined to be incompetent by professionals and declared so by a judge - at this point she is no longer legally deemed capable of consenting to an otherwise criminal act - I linked to this many pages ago, Criminal consent, there is no consent here, she is not legally capable of consenting.

Kink? This isn't tattooing, cutting, piercing, or even branding - people do that all the time, it's permanent and yes, there are risks, infection etc., and if in fact the person performing the procedure is not taking the proper precautions they can and are prosecuted, it's called criminal negligence.

Here there isn't even any negligence, this isn't a scene gone South, he's just flat out beating the shit out of, badly enought to require hospitalization, a person whose interests the court has appointed him to protect, and has apparently been doing this since she was 13.

Even informally, this begs the question of calling it consensual - she doesn't know anything else, she's never had a choice.

But the bottom line is, my opinion, your opinion, anybody's opinion about whether or not it's consensual is moot - it's already been legally established that it cannot be, it's not a kink, she doesn't even claim it's a kink, "kink" is fuzzy-wuzzy feew good word to her, and she's right, it's not a kink, it's a crime - by any standards.

So we are not allowed to question criminal behavior?  I'm not "invalidating her kink", I'm calling it a crime, and it is - legally, I'm calling it abuse and it is, by legal definition - that's the way it is on this planet, we draw lines, get used to it.

Holier than thou? Look in the mirror.

And as far as that goes, is SSC not a lifestyle? You great defenders of the abuse of others don't appear to very shy about mocking people with common sense, do you? Fortunately for the mods, I don't play that shit, or I could report every one of her posts and half yours.

In the grand scheme of things, people get abused, turn over a fucking rock, but I do not have to respect it, or pretend to respect it.



< Message edited by Amaros -- 10/7/2009 7:02:03 PM >

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/7/2009 7:26:10 PM   
Daddysredhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

In terms of the law, I'd think the greatest danger to the rights of bdsm folk would be how it played out in child custody disputes.


In my state, a parent's participation in BDSM activities is not considered relevant to the case unless the minor children are being directly exposed to things of a "mature" or "obscene" or directly sexual nature.

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/7/2009 8:12:00 PM   
Lucienne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

In terms of the law, I'd think the greatest danger to the rights of bdsm folk would be how it played out in child custody disputes.


In my state, a parent's participation in BDSM activities is not considered relevant to the case unless the minor children are being directly exposed to things of a "mature" or "obscene" or directly sexual nature.


That's good news. In many states judges can still get away with using one parent's homosexual conduct to deny visitation (or put severe restrictions on it) even if the kids have no clue what is going on.

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/7/2009 8:38:10 PM   
Daddysredhead


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Not here... and I've been working in domestic relations law off and on for 13 years.

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/7/2009 9:25:05 PM   
DavanKael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Agreed.  This thread is the worst example of  'my kink is better/more valid/etc.' that I've seen in 2 years and nearly 3,000 posts on this site.  I remain astonished at the presumption of some as well as the judgmental attitudes toward ADULTS DOING WHAT THEY WANT IN THE PRIVACY OF THEIR OWN HOMES!!! 



Your horror and astonishment touches me three times as much as it did the first time you stated it. It's a discussion board. People discuss things. They don't always agree. GET THE FUCK OVER IT.



As does your ignorance continue to distinguish you. 
And, I find it amusing that you didn't address my post in its totality.  Trot out your credentials, Lucienne, let's see what you're made of.  Oh, wait, you're just the self-appointed morality police. 
Thankfully this is America rather than Lucienne's LaLa Land. 
Davan
(Happy 2 year CM anniversary to me!)



I make no claim to be the morality police. And, here in America, the law of the land agrees with me, not you. Perhaps you are referring to the fact that in America, people of privilege can create their own bubbles and their own realities? That's true. I acknowledged that from the beginning. But if you want to maintain your own reality in your own bubble, it's important not to stretch your bubble too far because it'll run into people who not only disagree with you but can correctly point out that the law of the land disagrees with you.



Said it earlier in the thread and will reassert as you appear to have difficulty assimilating information: I'm fine with disagreements.  Your demeanor and actually your overbearing self-righteousness is distasteful. 
And, I find it quite interesting that someone who started out blathering about slavery being a horrible, bad institution has taken to advocating for the rescinding of rights of people to function as they will. Do you not notice a conflict in your stances?  You argue for liberty then you rabidly talk about taking choice away. 
  Davan

_____________________________

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It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/7/2009 9:28:13 PM   
DemonKia


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Minor correction. I'd omit the 'particularly' I bolded in the following quote. This is completely par for this course. These kind of 'pissing contest' threads happen all the time around here, my inner schadenfreudist luuuuuuvs this stuff . . . . .

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

I also remain deeply amused that this thread is considered a flame war, trainwreck, or particularly dramatic by community standards.


*scratches head*

Maybe it's an ovulating thing, it's the right time for that. That would make sense, seeking out 'rutting males displaying' kinda thing . . . . *shrugs*


Anyways, yeah, if ya wanna see hot-under-the-collar, ya should see a really good fat-people thread. Or Politics & Religion, it gets downright ugly in there. It's very civilized up here, by comparison . . . . .

Jus' my fyi . . .

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/7/2009 9:32:03 PM   
DavanKael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

If he weren't smashing ribs and busting her eyes and all that, do you really think any of this would be an issue?

The irony of drawing any line of consent at mutually-agreed bodily harm on a BDSM community site is almost too ridiculous to believe.



Agreed.  This thread is the worst example of  'my kink is better/more valid/etc.' that I've seen in 2 years and nearly 3,000 posts on this site.  I remain astonished at the presumption of some as well as the judgmental attitudes toward ADULTS DOING WHAT THEY WANT IN THE PRIVACY OF THEIR OWN HOMES!!! 
To the psychological argument, I've devoted many years and many more thousands of dollars to the study of it.  I have numerous state-approved letters after my name and all that happy mess and some really, really cogent points that select folks seem to be missing are that:
**A diagnosis is not generally rendered without there being an impairment of fuctioning/disruption to one's life/etc.  Ergo, if someone is happy in their relationship and they're functioning within their life roles, it's probably not a diagnosable issue.
**It's really freain' difficult to have a person declared legally incompetent.  And, it's not something that once done can not be undone. 
**Typically, kicking the victim is frowned upon yet some people have dubbed a particular individual a victim and have then sought to lambaste her into submission...abuse, anyone?!
There are more points than those, psychologically speaking, but this thread is a fantastic reason why I'm me, I don't profess to be part of a 'community' or a 'lifestyle' or whatever because I don't generally enjoy the holier-than-thou theatrics that such designations often breed. 
Davan
You need to turn in your shingle - she has been determined to be incompetent by professionals and declared so by a judge - at this point she is no longer legally deemed capable of consenting to an otherwise criminal act - I linked to this many pages ago, Criminal consent, there is no consent here, she is not legally capable of consenting.

Kink? This isn't tattooing, cutting, piercing, or even branding - people do that all the time, it's permanent and yes, there are risks, infection etc., and if in fact the person performing the procedure is not taking the proper precautions they can and are prosecuted, it's called criminal negligence.

Here there isn't even any negligence, this isn't a scene gone South, he's just flat out beating the shit out of, badly enought to require hospitalization, a person whose interests the court has appointed him to protect, and has apparently been doing this since she was 13.

Even informally, this begs the question of calling it consensual - she doesn't know anything else, she's never had a choice.

But the bottom line is, my opinion, your opinion, anybody's opinion about whether or not it's consensual is moot - it's already been legally established that it cannot be, it's not a kink, she doesn't even claim it's a kink, "kink" is fuzzy-wuzzy feew good word to her, and she's right, it's not a kink, it's a crime - by any standards.

So we are not allowed to question criminal behavior?  I'm not "invalidating her kink", I'm calling it a crime, and it is - legally, I'm calling it abuse and it is, by legal definition - that's the way it is on this planet, we draw lines, get used to it.

Holier than thou? Look in the mirror.

And as far as that goes, is SSC not a lifestyle? You great defenders of the abuse of others don't appear to very shy about mocking people with common sense, do you? Fortunately for the mods, I don't play that shit, or I could report every one of her posts and half yours.

In the grand scheme of things, people get abused, turn over a fucking rock, but I do not have to respect it, or pretend to respect it.




Your wildly emotional tirades are tiresome. 
I don't care what you think of my credentials, they are real and tangible.  Your links fail to impress; any yahoo who can google can pull links.  Understanding them contextually and applyng knowledge appropriately, now that is another story.
If you have a concern for a particular person, cmail them: what some people --you included-- are doing toward another user and her relationship is abusive.  The lady clearly and cogently is able to discuss her life in a way that does not scream victim; stop trying to bully her.  It's disrespectful on so many different levels. 
And, I never mentioned SSC; in fact, I think that concept is antiquated. 
Try again.  Actually, I'd rather you not; you just keep raging in the same fashion. 
  Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/7/2009 10:15:49 PM   
DemonKia


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Davan, this is not directed at you but your post pulled it out of my mind:

Help is only help when it's asked for. Imposing 'help' unwanted is disrespectful.

What we usually don't realize is that in rescuing others we treat them as helpless victims who can't take care of themselves. Rescuing, except in instances when someone genuinely needs help, is actually a subtle put-down. - Jack Morin



< Message edited by DemonKia -- 10/7/2009 10:16:02 PM >

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/7/2009 10:38:15 PM   
SimiBlue


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I don't have an issue with anything here. I believe to each their own and what I don't understand is how everyone continues to give attention to someone who is so good at pushing all of your buttons. The more attention you give them the more power they have over you in this thread and it appears that person is having too much joy messing with with you all. So, why let this person have what they want ignore them they get bored and go away to bother someone else. I do not mean to insult anyone I just do not understand the purpose of dragging this out for so long.


< Message edited by SimiBlue -- 10/7/2009 11:05:59 PM >

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/7/2009 11:31:40 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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lol

I can see how it can look like that . . . .

It's more like a series of button-pushers on either side of whatever divide you care to postulate, I think -- tho' the idea of going back & examining the thread thoroughly to make sure is more than even my maso self is willing to tolerate . . .. lol . . . Threads these longs are rarely sustained thru any one person's provocations, it needs to be masses to get those page counts up . . . . .

& maybe it helps to think of this place as being a little different than the 'average vanilla' online fora, in that it is full of self-identified dominant & / or sadistic types, so, less 'trollish' & more 'predators toying with troll-meese', lol . . . . .

Hope that helps, some . . . .

Plus, of course, there's voyeurs & exhibitionists here, & emotional masochists & sadists ... . The schadenfreude pickings are very rich . .. . ..

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/7/2009 11:34:45 PM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

The schadenfreude pickings are very rich . .. . ..

10 points for th
e use of "schadenfreude".


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I know they're all insane
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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/8/2009 4:02:50 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne
Yeah, that is totally me. I'm still in this thread because I find it interesting. The degree of projection going on is fascinating. I've got people here who can barely read my words but they think they can read my mind.

At no point in this thread have I sought to "save" or "convert" anyone. I have expressly disclaimed that goal. And yet here you feel it is necessary to discuss such things in response to me.


And yet you profess to be able to read Dp's mind. Yes she was declared mentally incompetent at the time  but there is nothing in her posts which points to that now. Yet you are so arrogant as to declare that she needs saving....and yes you have several times stated that she needs to be "saved" from her Master, the horribly abusive man whom she loves dearly. Speaking of projection, you have allowed your definition of abuse to color a relationship in which one of the people actually in that relationship has stated clearly and eloquently that there is no abuse.


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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/8/2009 5:48:36 AM   
Lucienne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Said it earlier in the thread and will reassert as you appear to have difficulty assimilating information: I'm fine with disagreements.  Your demeanor and actually your overbearing self-righteousness is distasteful. 
And, I find it quite interesting that someone who started out blathering about slavery being a horrible, bad institution has taken to advocating for the rescinding of rights of people to function as they will. Do you not notice a conflict in your stances?  You argue for liberty then you rabidly talk about taking choice away. 
Davan


Noting that someone who has been appointed a guardian under the law is not capable of consenting under the law is not advocating anything, it is a statement of fact. If you want to discuss the morality/ethics/whatever of having a guardianship system under the law, that's an entirely different subject. Go ahead and start it elsewhere and I'll probably drop in to watch you argue your version of the rich man and the poor man are equally free to sleep under a bridge at night.

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/8/2009 6:08:21 AM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia
& maybe it helps to think of this place as being a little different than the 'average vanilla' online fora, in that it is full of self-identified dominant & / or sadistic types, so, less 'trollish' & more 'predators toying with troll-meese', lol . . . . .

Hope that helps, some . . . .

Plus, of course, there's voyeurs & exhibitionists here, & emotional masochists & sadists ... . The schadenfreude pickings are very rich . .. . ..


Oh, I think you're giving folks here too much credit. Compared to the "vanilla" forums I'm familiar with, this place is earnest, hyper-sensitive, and thin skinned. Many of the self-identified dominants and sadists don't have the mental equivalent of the whips and canes needed to dominate someone intellectually. In general, I've seen more intelligent posts coming from the subs, and they don't seem to be hesitant to express their viewpoints or make sly little digs. And the forum dynamic of killing dissent seems to be little more than accusing others of being emotional. Which is... lame.


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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/8/2009 6:18:08 AM   
Lucienne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

And yet you profess to be able to read Dp's mind. Yes she was declared mentally incompetent at the time  but there is nothing in her posts which points to that now. Yet you are so arrogant as to declare that she needs saving....and yes you have several times stated that she needs to be "saved" from her Master, the horribly abusive man whom she loves dearly. Speaking of projection, you have allowed your definition of abuse to color a relationship in which one of the people actually in that relationship has stated clearly and eloquently that there is no abuse.



I work with the information I'm given. Prop states she was found mentally incompetent. She doesn't state that this finding has been reversed. People have asked her. She has demurred.

And I think you're confusing me with someone else in terms of saying she needs to be saved. I really haven't said that. I haven't an ounce of sympathy or concern for her until the day she decides that she wants out of that relationship. Part of thinking that it is totally fucked up is acknowledging that there's nothing to be done until she wants to change it. And I've repeatedly stated that I see no reason to believe that anyone on the outside could convince her to want to change. I think hers is a highly unusual case.

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/8/2009 6:50:51 AM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Davan, this is not directed at you but your post pulled it out of my mind:

Help is only help when it's asked for. Imposing 'help' unwanted is disrespectful.

What we usually don't realize is that in rescuing others we treat them as helpless victims who can't take care of themselves. Rescuing, except in instances when someone genuinely needs help, is actually a subtle put-down. - Jack Morin


I know a lot of people who do illegal things, the constitution makes slavery illegal, it doesn't say a damn word about altering your consciousness. Thing is, these people don't go a round blabbing about it it all over the place, the ones that do are trying to get caught.

I haven't tried to "save" anybody, tell me where in this or any other thread I've told anybody to stop what they're doing, this is literally the first time since I joined that I questioned anybody's "thing". I'm saying it non-consensual and illegal, those are just the facts.

I find it very disturbing that the abuse of minors and the mentally disabled is being excused here on general principle, and even more disturbed that she's promoting it when by her own admission she's not into a "lifestyle" and has nothing but contempt for those who are.

It violates the law, it violates the policies of this website, and I'd hate to see it shut down for promoting criminal conspiracy.

As for DP, I wish her luck, I hope it works out for her - she's not the first and she won't be the last, the difference here is that rest aren't proselytizing, recruiting, or misrepresenting themselves.

Ah, whatever - there are no lines - you wanna be turned into a fuck machine that put's Thousand dollar a night hookers to shame, I can do that, you wanna be turned into a drooling, cum dripping fuck hole, I can do that too, and anything in between - you wanna be a punching bag, getting kicked to bloody pulp in some hotel room is your kink, knock yourself out, just don't call me.

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/8/2009 8:20:47 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
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To transform someone into a slave, you need to use tweezers or a small pair of pliers to change their jumper configuration, or use a 40 conductor IDE ribbon cable.

Seriously, "slave" has different meanings in different contexts, and I don't think it denigrates what historical slaves have gone through when my Master and I use it within our relationship. For that matter, "submission" has very different meanings in the context of a D/s relationship, turning in a magazine article or report, in a wolf pack, and in a Dressage test.

Amaros, I happen to enjoy being punched and kicked, but not hard enough to do permanent harm. Getting kicked or punched rarely causes bleeding (unless done to the head or face) as it is blunt trauma, not edged. It has been included in my BDSM interests for quite some time now, and I also have done several varieties of martial arts. It's far easier for me to trust someone new to slap me across the face, punch me in the stomach, or literally kick my ass (or thighs) than to have sex with me without hurting me in a way I won't like. Getting treated like a whore as you described would be a hard limit for me, and would do *far* more damage.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 10/8/2009 8:35:08 AM >

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/8/2009 8:32:59 AM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Said it earlier in the thread and will reassert as you appear to have difficulty assimilating information: I'm fine with disagreements.  Your demeanor and actually your overbearing self-righteousness is distasteful. 
And, I find it quite interesting that someone who started out blathering about slavery being a horrible, bad institution has taken to advocating for the rescinding of rights of people to function as they will. Do you not notice a conflict in your stances?  You argue for liberty then you rabidly talk about taking choice away. 
Davan


Noting that someone who has been appointed a guardian under the law is not capable of consenting under the law is not advocating anything, it is a statement of fact. If you want to discuss the morality/ethics/whatever of having a guardianship system under the law, that's an entirely different subject. Go ahead and start it elsewhere and I'll probably drop in to watch you argue your version of the rich man and the poor man are equally free to sleep under a bridge at night.



Limp evasion of the query posed.  It merely required a yes or a no. 
  Davan

_____________________________

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Waiting is

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(in reply to Lucienne)
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