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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/29/2009 6:49:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne
At a certain point, long since passed, the hyper-sensitivity, earnestness, and defensive maneuvers are just comical. Your presence in the skirt brigade is duly noted.

*sighs* the sad thing here, Lucienne, is that ncbabe isn't even anyone I know... she's not some fan of mine or anything.

What exactly is it your looking for Lucienne? I get it that your definition of "slave" and mine don't match. I get it that by your definition, Carol is not a slave. I get it that for reasons I do not understand, you feel that somehow 24x7, TPE is better than other alternatives (or, at a minimum, you must think that I believe that). I get it that because of that, you feel that I am posturing. All of this is perfectly understandable. Given that I'm not a linguist or a historian, I'm not prepared to say that you are absolutely wrong in any of those assertions except for the bit about 24x7 being superior.

The reason I'm not defending my argument is because it wasn't an argument and there's nothing to defend. It's just how Carol and I see our marriage. There is no debate here. There's no winner or loser.

I thought I was pretty explicit in asking that people not deny the ugly and sad reality of the sex slave trade by equating it to their mutually satisfactory and consensual intimate relationships. I'm not hiding the ball here. When you're defining your relationship in general terms that push semantic drift, you're not just talking about yourself, you're implicating the lives of others.

I'm not sure what you mean by me thinking that TPE 24/7 being superior. In terms of nomenclature? I'm agnostic. I'm less concerned with how you label what it is you do than I am with previously existing labels being co-opted to the detriment of those who suffer them in silence. Hence, my objection to "literally." In short, it's not about you, or any of the people posting here about how delighted they are with their "slave" status. My original response to you was motivated by sensitivity for the people whose manner of existence I assume you would never subject your wife to.

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/29/2009 7:13:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne
I'm not sure what you mean by me thinking that TPE 24/7 being superior. In terms of nomenclature? I'm agnostic. I'm less concerned with how you label what it is you do than I am with previously existing labels being co-opted to the detriment of those who suffer them in silence. Hence, my objection to "literally."

the point you insist on ignoring, Lucienne, is that one can be "literally" a slave without being forced or coerced into bondage against their will. i am a very literal-minded person myself, and am not one to redefine or twist the meaning of words in order to suit a whim. i am a slave "literally" because my life is completely controlled by my Owner, my future is his to shape, and if he wills it he can decide i have no future at all. that is not romance or internet fairytalk, that is the reality of my life. does that make me "the same" as a teenage girl forced into the sex trade, or for that matter, my very own great great grandparents, who were slaves in Spotsylvania County, Virginia? no, it is not the same. but it is all slavery, "literal" slavery.

(in reply to Lucienne)

RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/29/2009 7:27:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne
I'm not sure what you mean by me thinking that TPE 24/7 being superior. In terms of nomenclature? I'm agnostic. I'm less concerned with how you label what it is you do than I am with previously existing labels being co-opted to the detriment of those who suffer them in silence. Hence, my objection to "literally."

the point you insist on ignoring, Lucienne, is that one can be "literally" a slave without being forced or coerced into bondage against their will. i am a very literal-minded person myself, and am not one to redefine or twist the meaning of words in order to suit a whim. i am a slave "literally" because my life is completely controlled by my Owner, my future is his to shape, and if he wills it he can decide i have no future at all. that is not romance or internet fairytalk, that is the reality of my life. does that make me "the same" as a teenage girl forced into the sex trade, or for that matter, my very own great great grandparents, who were slaves in Spotsylvania County, Virginia? no, it is not the same. but it is all slavery, "literal" slavery.

I've insisted on ignoring that point because I don't see the point or benefit of illustrating to you step by step that you are wrong. Your "owner's" ability to prevent you from having a future is no different than the ability of a common criminal to deprive you of a future by force. The freedom to organize your own life on the terms that please you doesn't include the power to force others to accept your frame. Sorry.

(in reply to daddysprop247)

RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/29/2009 7:37:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne
I thought I was pretty explicit in asking that people not deny the ugly and sad reality of the sex slave trade by equating it to their mutually satisfactory and consensual intimate relationships. I'm not hiding the ball here. When you're defining your relationship in general terms that push semantic drift, you're not just talking about yourself, you're implicating the lives of others.

Ahhhhh, so you object to the word "slave" in general because, in your opinion, using it in the consensual sense somehow ellevates it's traditional and usually non-consenual meaning. I disagree that that's the case. Nor do I think playing video games causes people to grow up into mass murderers. And now that I understand that what we have here is a political argument, I'm wondering why it's on this board and not the appropriate Politics and Religion forum. Seriously... all of this name calling and mud slinging was in an attempt to rid the BDSM community of the word "slave"?

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Lucienne)

RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/29/2009 7:38:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

I've insisted on ignoring that point because I don't see the point or benefit of illustrating to you step by step that you are wrong. Your "owner's" ability to prevent you from having a future is no different than the ability of a common criminal to deprive you of a future by force. The freedom to organize your own life on the terms that please you doesn't include the power to force others to accept your frame. Sorry.

WOW. anger/irritation is not a response often evoked in me, but you have done it. bravo. your ignorance is astounding, but at least it lets me know that future communication with you of any sort would be fruitless.

(in reply to Lucienne)

RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/29/2009 7:43:25 PM

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quote:

Seriously... all of this name calling and mud slinging was in an attempt to rid the BDSM community of the word "slave"?

Or the word "literally". Your choice, Jeff

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/29/2009 7:45:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne
I thought I was pretty explicit in asking that people not deny the ugly and sad reality of the sex slave trade by equating it to their mutually satisfactory and consensual intimate relationships. I'm not hiding the ball here. When you're defining your relationship in general terms that push semantic drift, you're not just talking about yourself, you're implicating the lives of others.

Ahhhhh, so you object to the word "slave" in general because, in your opinion, using it in the consensual sense somehow ellevates it's traditional and usually non-consenual meaning. I disagree that that's the case. Nor do I think playing video games causes people to grow up into mass murderers. And now that I understand that what we have here is a political argument, I'm wondering why it's on this board and not the appropriate Politics and Religion forum. Seriously... all of this name calling and mud slinging was in an attempt to rid the BDSM community of the word "slave"?

For the, um, sixth (?) time, it was your use of the modifier "literally" that prompted my response. Plenty of people in the community use slavery terms figuratively and I've raised no objection to that. But go ahead and shoe-horn my responses into your convenient hole. I can't believe you categorize any of this exchange as mudslinging. Again, weak.

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/29/2009 7:48:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

I've insisted on ignoring that point because I don't see the point or benefit of illustrating to you step by step that you are wrong. Your "owner's" ability to prevent you from having a future is no different than the ability of a common criminal to deprive you of a future by force. The freedom to organize your own life on the terms that please you doesn't include the power to force others to accept your frame. Sorry.

WOW. anger/irritation is not a response often evoked in me, but you have done it. bravo. your ignorance is astounding, but at least it lets me know that future communication with you of any sort would be fruitless.

Congratulations. I figured that out about you several posts ago. It's ok to disagree. No point in forcing it when we're coming from such different places.

(in reply to daddysprop247)

RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/29/2009 8:07:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
WOW. anger/irritation is not a response often evoked in me, but you have done it. bravo. your ignorance is astounding, but at least it lets me know that future communication with you of any sort would be fruitless.

Wow. I'm right there with you daddysprop. The slanders against me were mostly amusing, but that one crossed the line completely in my book.

Lucienne:
Now, I think, I'll just go ahead and be blunt. You are wrong in thinking you understand other people's realities. You think you have a clue about daddysprop's relationship, but you don't. You think you have a clue about my relationship, but again you do not. It's not even very clear to me that you understand history (or, at least, the history of slavery) in anything more than a sound bite sort of way. So in your yawning ignorance, let me encourage you to just shut the hell up.

As an attempt at actually being helpful, you'll note that I often (almost always actually) post in the first person. I answer questions by relaying how it is in MY life. I do that for a reason. It's because my life is my own. I am (a) the expert on it and (b) commenting on my life doesn't judge anyone elses. I wish I'd known that little tidbit much earlier in my postings on collarme. I'd encourage you to think on employing it yourself.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to daddysprop247)

RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/29/2009 8:41:20 PM

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(totally ignoring all of the drama going on in this thread)
TPE 24/7...for me it's having a relationship where I do what he says, when he says it and how he says it.
I do it in ways that are a reflection of me but carry out his request to a tee. He always leaves room for my personal interpretation of his directions.
He would lose a big part of my personality if he didn't allow that.
End result is two very happy people that get both of their needs met in complimentary relationships while having fantastic sex.

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/29/2009 8:48:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
WOW. anger/irritation is not a response often evoked in me, but you have done it. bravo. your ignorance is astounding, but at least it lets me know that future communication with you of any sort would be fruitless.

Wow. I'm right there with you daddysprop. The slanders against me were mostly amusing, but that one crossed the line completely in my book.

Lucienne:
Now, I think, I'll just go ahead and be blunt. You are wrong in thinking you understand other people's realities. You think you have a clue about daddysprop's relationship, but you don't. You think you have a clue about my relationship, but again you do not. It's not even very clear to me that you understand history (or, at least, the history of slavery) in anything more than a sound bite sort of way. So in your yawning ignorance, let me encourage you to just shut the hell up.

As an attempt at actually being helpful, you'll note that I often (almost always actually) post in the first person. I answer questions by relaying how it is in MY life. I do that for a reason. It's because my life is my own. I am (a) the expert on it and (b) commenting on my life doesn't judge anyone elses. I wish I'd known that little tidbit much earlier in my postings on collarme. I'd encourage you to think on employing it yourself.

Slanders? That's wonderful. I'm guessing your mastery of the law of defamation is equal to your mastery of the history of slavery.

I don't pretend to know your entire life. But, as you note, you do consistently post in first person. Which means that what I know about you is what you've openly expressed. I'm not sure what to make of the proffered wisdom to post in first person if no one is allowed to take those posts seriously. Are you saying you're an unreliable narrator?

If I may, without any reasonable justification, give you the benefit of a good faith interlocutor, my comment to daddysprop (which you apparently thought "crossed the line") about not having to accept her frame is based on a distinction between the private and public sphere. I respect her (and your) right to define her own reality within her private sphere. But when you pull it out into public, as she did with her comparisons to (for the love of GOD) modern victims of the sex slave trade, you subject yourself to a higher degree of scrutiny. I don't expect or demand that she grant me any authority. I'm just expressing my opinion.

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/30/2009 9:03:54 AM

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TPE: the essence of genuine voluntary enslavement. Completely pansexual in its adherents.

Surrender not submission is the load stone here. Give up, given in, give over.

No choices, no rights, no privacy, all areas of life directed by Owner. Yes Owner because this is a total commitment and all the responsibilities that implies for both sides. These are best described as OP relationships; Owner/property.

This is not to be taken lightly and within the TPE structure there is a wide range from mild to extreme covering any fetish focus.

Despite what you hear from the outside this is achievable and not merely yet another “name” to be thrown around as just another vanilla Ds/Sm game.

Enjoy your wonder-filled day

(in reply to Lucienne)

RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/30/2009 9:11:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

I've insisted on ignoring that point because I don't see the point or benefit of illustrating to you step by step that you are wrong. Your "owner's" ability to prevent you from having a future is no different than the ability of a common criminal to deprive you of a future by force. The freedom to organize your own life on the terms that please you doesn't include the power to force others to accept your frame. Sorry.

Actually, she's not wrong. "Slavery" is a status of control irrelevant of whether it is geoculturally attractive at the time or whether it is consented to.

That you appear to have negative emotions attached to the word "slavery" for a specific set of instances of it, much as you'd like otherwise, will not change the world of linguistics (colloquial and otherwise) so as to pander to your misdirected empathy.

_____________________________

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I know that I'm to blame."
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(in reply to Lucienne)

RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/30/2009 9:16:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

But when you pull it out into public, as she did with her comparisons to (for the love of GOD) modern victims of the sex slave trade, you subject yourself to a higher degree of scrutiny.

She specifically expressed that her situation is not the same as that of the victims of sex slave trade or of historical slaves of this country. There is nothing to scrutinize there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

I don't expect or demand that she grant me any authority. I'm just expressing my opinion.

People who use the word "opinion" are seldom interested in having the "authority" of sensibility coupled with it.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to Lucienne)

RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/30/2009 10:09:50 AM

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Lucienne, this is obviously a very emotional issue for you. As far as I can tell, everyone seems happy with their own definition of TPE 24/7 and what that means to them, and they have responded so to the OP. You might want to take some time out to think about this instead of persistently arguing and deliberately trying to provoke and offend people.

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/30/2009 10:37:17 AM

ranja

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i respect everyones opinion, really i do

I wonder though, Jeff... as you point out regularly... if Carol was to not obey an order you give her, then you would take off the collar and the TPE, so her slavery, would be over... so it is always her choice

Now this is the case between me and my Husband as well... it is a balance between us and we both keep it going... if one of us was to break the spell the game would be finished...

we would have our marriage left but the dynamic would be gone... hence no matter how real it feels and how exiting or deep it can get, ultimately for us it is a game we play 24/7... because really truly in this society and this time i have as much rights as He does and we both know that.
Things might be different if He decided we were to move to Afghanistan

and for the poor Eastern European sex slave there really is no more choice

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/30/2009 10:50:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

i respect everyones opinion, really i do

I wonder though, Jeff... as you point out regularly... if Carol was to not obey an order you give her, then you would take off the collar and the TPE, so her slavery, would be over... so it is always her choice

Now this is the case between me and my Husband as well... it is a balance between us and we both keep it going... if one of us was to break the spell the game would be finished...

we would have our marriage left but the dynamic would be gone... hence no matter how real it feels and how exiting or deep it can get, ultimately for us it is a game we play 24/7... because really truly in this society and this time i have as much rights as He does and we both know that.
Things might be different if He decided we were to move to Afghanistan

and for the poor Eastern European sex slave there really is no more choice

and ranja, even for some of us living in consensual slavery, there is no more choice, or rather, are choices are rendered irrelevant after that last powerful choice to be owned in the first place.

in my case, i do not have the power to end my slavery to my Master. i could willfully disobey him, i could tell him, "i just don't want to be your slave anymore," i could tell him flat out i just wanted to leave. it does not matter, i am still his property and in his view would have no right to free myself. He would likely make my life a living hell, but he would not release me simply because i wished to be released. very early on i learned the hard way just how much power he really has. but this power has a really weird dual effect...it leaves me in a state of constant fear, always just underneath the surface...while simultaneously giving me the most awesome sense of security and comfort. but, that is what M/s means for us.

(in reply to ranja)

RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/30/2009 10:52:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Actually, she's not wrong. "Slavery" is a status of control irrelevant of whether it is geoculturally attractive at the time or whether it is consented to.

thank you NZ. unfortunately that point seems to be far over the heads of some.

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/30/2009 11:05:03 AM

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I agree Ranja. But honestly, as has been pointed out repeatedly and by several different posters, the word "slave", does NOT imply any of the following:

- the presence or lack of consent
- the general happiness of the enslaved
- the overall level of love and concern between master and slave
- the broadness of any "limits" or "boundaries"

or, pretty much anything else that is commonly attributed to it. In other words, the actual correct usage of the word does, in fact, fully encompass any situation in which there is an owner/owned situation going on. What, exactly "being owned" means varies VASTLY from time to time, culture to culture, class of slaves, and I'm sure, invidivual master/slave relationships.

The fact that SOME, arguably most, of the usages of the word are pretty dark and miserable doesn't change the etymological or historical facts. And, aside from that, there is also the fact that I'm now suspicious that the ability for carol & I to just call it quits if we wanted to is more a theoretical option than actual. We may well have done too much internal shifting of worldviews for that to work out.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to ranja)

RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 9/30/2009 11:13:40 AM

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Yeah, several of us appear to have said much the same things, each in our own way yet the one person not getting it is the one slinging mud rather than looking in the mirror in terms of some abject self-assessment.
Davan

< Message edited by DavanKael -- 9/30/2009 11:15:41 AM >

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(in reply to daddysprop247)

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