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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 11:57:35 AM

fadedshadow

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i learned something new today =D

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 12:36:55 PM

Eigenaar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Thank you for making my points for me:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eigenaar

''slave
/slayv/
a person held in servitude as the property of another.''

There you go. And she is held in servitude and is his property as much as any individual thing can be property (Jeff poignantly addressed the topic of what even constitutes property by making a great argument that it, really, is just an agreement of the status by all audience members or at least any of them that would have the power to nullify the ownership).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eigenaar

Carol is not the legal literal property of Jeff. A dictionary does not refer to ''slave'' in a theatrical setting in which it is used by bdsm practitioners.

I'm sorry, I read and reread the definition of slave that you provided as well as others and keep missing that "legal" word you just used.

Jeff's first post in this thread states their situation is the same as between an owner and slave in earlier times when slavery was culturally allowed 'when you stop making special "bdsm interpretations" of the word "slave" and just go with it literally'. Jeff however is making ''bdsm interpretations'' and Carol did not come to him the way things went in earlier times where Carol would be his legal property. A dictionary does not define ''slave'' as LeVar Burton, the actor playing the slave Kunta Kinte in ''Roots''. What it does say is that literally a ''slave'' is a Slav, a member of any of the peoples , esp of E Europe, who speak a Slavonic language. And one can strip more and say ''slave'' is a combination of five characters, the literal ordinary straightforward meaning of slave will be of a person held as the involuntary property of another. And Carol is not a ''thing'' in the literal meaning.

''property =

something to which somebody has a legal title.''

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
quote:

ORIGINAL: Eigenaar

Hence:

''literal =

1 having or denoting the factual, ordinary, or primary meaning of a word or expression, as opposed to a figurative one.
2 keeping strictly to the basic and straightforward meaning.

"Keeping strictly to the basic and straightforward meaning" means taking the words of the definition at base value and not adding any other clothes to it.

By definition provided here, she would indeed be his "literal" slave. You know, "literal", with historical etymology shown here:

[Middle English, from Old French, from Late Latin litterālis, of letters, from Latin littera, lītera, letter; see letter.]

"See letter", not "see picture from X historical period.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eigenaar

figurative =

1 characterized by or using figures of speech, esp metaphor.
2 representing by a figure or likeness; emblematic.

Representing by a figure or likeness, like by the concept of it from ancient Egypt or a Roman colosseum or the civil rights movement in the US.

Why do I get the suspicion that the people having these reverse interpretations of simple terms may be ones prone to treat or see WIITWD dynamics as 'role play' rather than an actual tangible expressions of the way two (or more) people function both by themselves individually and as a unit together?

Because, if the argument is "Yeah, but you two are just "playing" Master/slave and these historical figures lived it!" then it is yet again a argument for willingness/consent being a disqualifying facet of 'acceptable' slavery.

Things are not as simple as you would like them to be. I did judge nor disqualify ''WIITWD dynamics'' and said nothing about the acceptance of slavery. Seeing things in a different light does not change their actual colour.

< Message edited by Eigenaar -- 10/2/2009 1:25:57 PM >

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 2:28:08 PM

subbob63

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To OhxSlave let me apologize for this thread, You must think us all insane. You asked a very simple question, in the context of a bdsm site, which should have limited the discusion to one of a bdsm context. While the immediate responses were very helpful, the thread quickly disintigrated into a clash of ideologies, language, and semantics. All of which did little to answer your question, but seemed to stroke the egos of a few in their righteous might.
i doubt that you have followed this thread this far, having probably abandoned it long ago. i shouldn't have even followed it this far, but damn, i just love watching a train wreck in slow motion.
Please, if you're still with us, don't give up on the message boards. They're usually very helpful. Just try to stick to the positive responses and as a rule avoid those which quote previous posters.
We not all this craze, some of us just get a little carried away, which in itself is a bit dangerous when practicing bdsm. But that's another thread.

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 3:13:37 PM

Amaros

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Why do I get the suspicion that the people having these reverse interpretations of simple terms may be ones prone to treat or see WIITWD dynamics as 'role play' rather than an actual tangible expression of the way two (or more) people function both by themselves individually and as a unit together?

NZ, i've long had the same suspicion whenever these debates crop up. for a great many all this D/s or BDSM stuff is only palatable and believable firmly within the confines of fantasy. it is kinky fun, or an extended but mutually agreed upon escape from reality. but the very idea that there could be anyone who is drawn to all of this because it speaks to the core of their personality, that is something that naturally pervades all aspect of their lives, and that the relationships formed within are not based on any fantasy or roleplay, and actually "literally" mean the things we say....well that's just appalling to these folks.

Does anybody go straight from vanilla into being a slave? I sincerely doubt it, outside a small minority.

It's a continuum, there are people in every stage, always will be, and people will tend to gravitate towards whatever level they need or can maintain, for some that's roleplay, for others, life would be meaningless without 24/7 TPE.

As far as I'm concerned, that's the beauty of it, you can pretty much make it up as you go along.

And, all things considered, dependency in this country is looked at somewhat askance, it has nothing to do with BDSM per se, it's a broader cultural thing, the mythos of the "self made man", the rugged individualist - so yes, the idea of total interdependence is simply outside the script for a lot of people (to the point that some question the ability of humans to form permenant dyads at all), although in fact we all pretty much depend on other people for anything, those who don't rely on anybody else are called either hermits or homeless people.

< Message edited by Amaros -- 10/2/2009 3:14:53 PM >

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 3:40:02 PM

Falkenstein

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

NZ, i've long had the same suspicion whenever these debates crop up. for a great many all this D/s or BDSM stuff is only palatable and believable firmly within the confines of fantasy. it is kinky fun, or an extended but mutually agreed upon escape from reality. but the very idea that there could be anyone who is drawn to all of this because it speaks to the core of their personality, that is something that naturally pervades all aspect of their lives, and that the relationships formed within are not based on any fantasy or roleplay, and actually "literally" mean the things we say....well that's just appalling to these folks.

My dear lady,

I am surely one of "these folks" you refer too and I have to agree with you, your destiny is very, not appalling but definitely disturbing, perhaps because it pleases my darkest design. After all, if it is you on the picture, given the intellectual quality of your posts, ans supposing you are a good cook

you are the dream of any dominant man. But thinking to the end the dream of "owning" you includes wondering if one will be able to treat you well, to resist to my basest instinct, not just in "big decisions" but also in everydays small ones.

Absolute powers corrupts absolutely, and you have given absolute power over you. Thank to the gods, It looks to me like you fond your Cincicantus, but for one of this good alliage, how many Caligulas? and how many regular, in an usual situation nice men, who will turn to their dark side because of a lack of resistance by their submissive?

Of course you are not appaling, but your way of being forces dominant men to look in a mirror and that picture may not be applealing at all.

I will not bother you with politics but over here in Europe we fight militant Islamists who think that your state of being is good enough for ALL women. I know that it has nothing to do with your situation, but it has a lot to do with ours. It may explain to you some rather epidermic reactions.

In any case please be assured that I respect you and I am not appaled by your choice. I am just stirred, not shaken, as one of my hero would say.

be seeing you, Henry

_____________________________

Henry,

Part of that power which still
Produceth good, whilst ever scheming ill.

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 4:40:26 PM

Eigenaar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Why do I get the suspicion that the people having these reverse interpretations of simple terms may be ones prone to treat or see WIITWD dynamics as 'role play' rather than an actual tangible expression of the way two (or more) people function both by themselves individually and as a unit together?

NZ, i've long had the same suspicion whenever these debates crop up. for a great many all this D/s or BDSM stuff is only palatable and believable firmly within the confines of fantasy. it is kinky fun, or an extended but mutually agreed upon escape from reality. but the very idea that there could be anyone who is drawn to all of this because it speaks to the core of their personality, that is something that naturally pervades all aspect of their lives, and that the relationships formed within are not based on any fantasy or roleplay, and actually "literally" mean the things we say....well that's just appalling to these folks.

I do not recognize myself in your description of my person, being the one NihilusZero is addressing you base this upon. I do not live out bdsm/consensual slavery in a fantasy and don't see it as kinky fun or as an escape from reality and your (blurred) vision is not appalling to me. These are your words and you will have to deal with them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

NZ, i've long had the same suspicion whenever these debates crop up. for a great many all this D/s or BDSM stuff is only palatable and believable firmly within the confines of fantasy. it is kinky fun, or an extended but mutually agreed upon escape from reality. but the very idea that there could be anyone who is drawn to all of this because it speaks to the core of their personality, that is something that naturally pervades all aspect of their lives, and that the relationships formed within are not based on any fantasy or roleplay, and actually "literally" mean the things we say....well that's just appalling to these folks.

Heh.

So, this is really a BDSM equivalent of the types of arguments that, for instance, some laborers would make about arts performers, that what they do (the arts people) is not really a "job" but just a 'hobby' they're getting paid for. That there must be some measure of toil and suffering and hardship (of the non-willing flavor) before someone earns the title as if it's a badge of some degree of personal martyrdom?

Reminds me of this.

I did not click the link but do not recognize myself in your stereotype description. I am not a labourer but an artist myself and you do justice to neither.

< Message edited by Eigenaar -- 10/2/2009 4:45:00 PM >

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 6:48:12 PM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

Does anybody go straight from vanilla into being a slave? I sincerely doubt it, outside a small minority.

i did.

if you are referring to one's way of life, that is. one day i was a single girl, no ties to anyone, free to do as i willed...and the next i was someone else's property with no more say over my own destiny. the gradual process never made sense to me, as i understood even at that young, innocent age that in order to live a productive and remotely fulfilling life, and to have any chance whatsoever at achieving peace, i needed to live a life in total servitude, where i was completely controlled. therefore, it never occured to me that i could ever be anything other than a slave. perhaps i am one of the strange few for whom all "this" was never about pleasure, fun or sex.

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 6:51:21 PM

DavanKael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eigenaar
Carol is not the legal literal property of Jeff. A dictionary does not refer to ''slave'' in a theatrical setting in which it is used by bdsm practitioners. ... Jeff's first post in this thread states their situation is the same as between an owner and slave in earlier times when slavery was culturally allowed 'when you stop making special "bdsm interpretations" of the word "slave" and just go with it literally'. Jeff however is making ''bdsm interpretations'' and Carol did not come to him the way things went in earlier times where Carol would be his legal property.

How diminutive to anyone who considers themselves a slave or who is the owner of a slave or slave(s) and actually to anyone involved in power dynamic-based relationships to call bdsm merely theatrical.
Perhaps to you bdsm/power exchange/etc. is merely theatre, however, to many people, myself included, it's an inherent aspect of self-identification as well as core way of interrelating.
This is where part of the disconnect is, I think. If I am submissive/Dominant to a partner, it is not because I have chosen that role, it is beause they and I have agreed that that aspect of our natures warrants that titling or delineation of our interelations.
There is no prerequisite to the defition of slave that requires they be coerced or kept against their will (There were hundreds of slaves who, upon being freed in America, begged to be kept my their masters...and, I am betting that they were not all doing so in a Stockholm Syndrome-sort of way. Understanding slavery or even servitude would rquire the acknolwedgment that people in such roles did sometimes come to care for and quite value one another). And, Henry's assertion of slavery as tantamount to robbery is just wrong. Slavery is an acknowledgment of status, however your assuption that being owned is inherently low is erroneous.
Davan

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May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 7:44:37 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
NZ, i've long had the same suspicion whenever these debates crop up. for a great many all this D/s or BDSM stuff is only palatable and believable firmly within the confines of fantasy. it is kinky fun, or an extended but mutually agreed upon escape from reality. but the very idea that there could be anyone who is drawn to all of this because it speaks to the core of their personality, that is something that naturally pervades all aspect of their lives, and that the relationships formed within are not based on any fantasy or roleplay, and actually "literally" mean the things we say....well that's just appalling to these folks.

Yeah, I have to admit, that suspicion has been lurking in my head also. Even our RL friends (also self-identified master/slave) have a very difficult time with what we do -- and this despite the fact that I'm all sweetness and light.. no whips and chains in my closet yet. It isn't that I DO anything to Carol... it's just the overwhelming control I exert over her life affronts them.

In fact, I find myself struggling frequently to talk to other M/s people about what's going on in our marriage. I feel like we're all using the same words, but somehow we are not even remotely talking the same language.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 7:58:05 PM

lovingpet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
NZ, i've long had the same suspicion whenever these debates crop up. for a great many all this D/s or BDSM stuff is only palatable and believable firmly within the confines of fantasy. it is kinky fun, or an extended but mutually agreed upon escape from reality. but the very idea that there could be anyone who is drawn to all of this because it speaks to the core of their personality, that is something that naturally pervades all aspect of their lives, and that the relationships formed within are not based on any fantasy or roleplay, and actually "literally" mean the things we say....well that's just appalling to these folks.
Yeah, I have to admit, that suspicion has been lurking in my head also. Even our RL friends (also self-identified master/slave) have a very difficult time with what we do -- and this despite the fact that I'm all sweetness and light.. no whips and chains in my closet yet. It isn't that I DO anything to Carol... it's just the overwhelming control I exert over her life affronts them.

In fact, I find myself struggling frequently to talk to other M/s people about what's going on in our marriage. I feel like we're all using the same words, but somehow we are not even remotely talking the same language.

I am not necessarily willing to put anyone on blast based solely on the dictionary games they play. As far as I'm concerned, no matter how one looks at it, the definitions of these terms are far less important than the substance of the relationships to which they happen to be attached.

It is so funny to talk about all this as a fantasy or escape from reality. I would so much like to wake up and realize some of this was not real on a level I can't describe. At times, it is really more than I can handle to wrap my own head around exactly what it is that is happening. The fact of the matter is that this is my reality and there really is no changing it. I say that like it is some doomed fate, which it does feel like sometime (rarely, but it does). The truth behind it is that things are as they should be for me given my own inclinations and that means that what my partner and I do is a much truer reality than the one that is supposedly my "real" life. I am more settled, secure, and sane in that which my partner has created for me. It doesn't mean that the other areas are not important to me, but that I now deal with them from the safety of our space and rules. That is where I am at home.

lovingpet

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 8:52:23 PM

Amaros

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
NZ, i've long had the same suspicion whenever these debates crop up. for a great many all this D/s or BDSM stuff is only palatable and believable firmly within the confines of fantasy. it is kinky fun, or an extended but mutually agreed upon escape from reality. but the very idea that there could be anyone who is drawn to all of this because it speaks to the core of their personality, that is something that naturally pervades all aspect of their lives, and that the relationships formed within are not based on any fantasy or roleplay, and actually "literally" mean the things we say....well that's just appalling to these folks.
Yeah, I have to admit, that suspicion has been lurking in my head also. Even our RL friends (also self-identified master/slave) have a very difficult time with what we do -- and this despite the fact that I'm all sweetness and light.. no whips and chains in my closet yet. It isn't that I DO anything to Carol... it's just the overwhelming control I exert over her life affronts them.

In fact, I find myself struggling frequently to talk to other M/s people about what's going on in our marriage. I feel like we're all using the same words, but somehow we are not even remotely talking the same language.

Sorry, I'm calling bullshit, this a strawman - you are not more "real", and nobody is "affronted" by your awesome powers of seduction, get over yourself.

It's been largely a discussion of semantics, objective vs. subjective, this isn't a vanilla site: call her a slave a slut, a donkey fucker, I could care less.

You're happy, she's happy, why the persecution complex? Somebody doesn't like it, fuck 'em.

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

Does anybody go straight from vanilla into being a slave? I sincerely doubt it, outside a small minority.

i did. if you are referring to one's way of life, that is. one day i was a single girl, no ties to anyone, free to do as i willed...and the next i was someone else's property with no more say over my own destiny. the gradual process never made sense to me, as i understood even at that young, innocent age that in order to live a productive and remotely fulfilling life, and to have any chance whatsoever at achieving peace, i needed to live a life in total servitude, where i was completely controlled. therefore, it never occured to me that i could ever be anything other than a slave. perhaps i am one of the strange few for whom all "this" was never about pleasure, fun or sex.

That may well be, I have no reason or desire to question it - however, from the other side the usual disparaging of play seems to be rearing it's ugly head - play is as primal as anything else, I don't know if could handle somebody who didn't know how to relax and be playful: I'm a creative person, and being around creative people is stimulating for me, it isn't all about sex and submission for me, I need to play - it's like a bodily function for me, if I don't get it, it's like being constipated, I get frustrated and stressed out. And in an information economy , two heads are often better than one - play is serious fucking business to me, lol.

There's play and then there's the "games people play" - not necessarily the same thing; I have little patience for drama queens or attention whores unless they can keep me genuinely entertained.

Watch this video, it's about half hour but you can just listen to most of it.

Tim Brown and the powerful relationship between creativity and play

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 9:06:29 PM

DavanKael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
NZ, i've long had the same suspicion whenever these debates crop up. for a great many all this D/s or BDSM stuff is only palatable and believable firmly within the confines of fantasy. it is kinky fun, or an extended but mutually agreed upon escape from reality. but the very idea that there could be anyone who is drawn to all of this because it speaks to the core of their personality, that is something that naturally pervades all aspect of their lives, and that the relationships formed within are not based on any fantasy or roleplay, and actually "literally" mean the things we say....well that's just appalling to these folks.
Yeah, I have to admit, that suspicion has been lurking in my head also. Even our RL friends (also self-identified master/slave) have a very difficult time with what we do -- and this despite the fact that I'm all sweetness and light.. no whips and chains in my closet yet. It isn't that I DO anything to Carol... it's just the overwhelming control I exert over her life affronts them.

In fact, I find myself struggling frequently to talk to other M/s people about what's going on in our marriage. I feel like we're all using the same words, but somehow we are not even remotely talking the same language.

Sorry, I'm calling bullshit, this a strawman - you are not more "real", and nobody is "affronted" by your awesome powers of seduction, get over yourself.

It's been largely a discussion of semantics, objective vs. subjective, this isn't a vanilla site: call her a slave a slut, a donkey fucker, I could care less.

You're happy, she's happy, why the persecution complex? Somebody doesn't like it, fuck 'em.

Your interpretation of what Jeff said is in error or you wouldn't be calling bullshit: he simply made a statement of what is (And, since I've spoken extensively with he and Carol, I feel comfortable asserting that).
Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 9:24:59 PM

Amaros

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I think Jeff is in error if he thinks anybody is questioning his relationship, whatever the hell it is, I personally don't give a damn, I thought the topic was about what is 24/7 TPE, not about the struggle to fit in or explain yourself - that may well be an issue w/regard to TPE. There are definitely people who are going to be "affronted" by it and it's something you have to deal with if you're contemplating it, but the semantic discussion in here has largely been about a particular word and what it's literal, objective meaning is, outside the BDSM community, of strictly academic interest - it's not my fault if it's precipitating some identity crisis.

Within the community, I think most understand quite well what it means to be enslaved by ones own needs, that's pretty much everybody here and the rest don't know what they're missing - the only point I've seen anybody try to make in this thread so far, is that it means something quite different to the other 85% or so of the population, just acknowledge it and move on.

My last post was an attempt to broaden the subject a little - me, I'm moody and easily bored - if you're gonna go all limp on me you're gonna be in for one wild fucking ride.

< Message edited by Amaros -- 10/2/2009 9:28:12 PM >

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 9:32:07 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael
Your interpretation of what Jeff said is in error or you wouldn't be calling bullshit: he simply made a statement of what is (And, since I've spoken extensively with he and Carol, I feel comfortable asserting that).

How timely Davan. You are correct. It was a factual assertion relating to the real life couple you're thinking about. Also, you'll remember that you and I have had conversations along these same lines. In fact, it was those conversations that caused the last part of my statement...

In fact, I find myself struggling frequently to talk to other M/s people about what's going on in our marriage. I feel like we're all using the same words, but somehow we are not even remotely talking the same language.

Ring any bells? Of course, I'm not quite sure how that one came out. I never did fully decide if we were talking the same language or not. I ended up deciding you needed to get yourself a Master so that I could observe in practice, not talk about it *laughs*. So hurry up already.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 10:14:05 PM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Yeah, I have to admit, that suspicion has been lurking in my head also. Even our RL friends (also self-identified master/slave) have a very difficult time with what we do -- and this despite the fact that I'm all sweetness and light.. no whips and chains in my closet yet. It isn't that I DO anything to Carol... it's just the overwhelming control I exert over her life affronts them.

In fact, I find myself struggling frequently to talk to other M/s people about what's going on in our marriage. I feel like we're all using the same words, but somehow we are not even remotely talking the same language.

Sorry, I'm calling bullshit, this a strawman - you are not more "real", and nobody is "affronted" by your awesome powers of seduction, get over yourself.

That's amazing! You know the people in Jeff's life better than he does enough to properly assess if they've been affronted or not?

It's odd you like tossing a fallacy buzz word like "straw man" and then go on to make so fabulous an example of it with the use of "awesome powers of seduction" (since nowhere in anything Jeff said was he trying to woo anyone and certainly made mention of nothing other than his relationship dynamic).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

It's been largely a discussion of semantics, objective vs. subjective, this isn't a vanilla site: call her a slave a slut, a donkey fucker, I could care less.

you mean you couldn't care less.

And if you genuinely couldn't care less you would not be so suddenly wound up about a poster talking to someone else that you needed to, to use the popular adage, insert your C into their A & B conversation (and it's not the cutting into the talk that's the problem, this is a public forum after all...it's the lack of following through on the context of the conversation they were having before assuming he was try to make any kind of generally pompous comment).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

You're happy, she's happy, why the persecution complex? Somebody doesn't like it, fuck 'em.

Do you have any other marvelous tidbits of wisdom as to how other people should conduct themselves in their lives with other acquaintances and, even further, how to properly discuss those interactions in online fora according to Amaros Etiquette™?

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 10:18:04 PM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

I think Jeff is in error if he thinks anybody is questioning his relationship

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

There are definitely people who are going to be "affronted" by it...

Next time, try mixing in a few more paragraphs between your blatant contradictions.

Jeff told a short story of people in his life being affronted by his dynamic with Carol. You effectively call him a liar. You repeat the same sentiment above in the first quotation, with different wording.

And then you follow it up by the admission that people can be affronted by TPE.

So...what you're essentially saying is that you think Jeff could indeed suffer the affrontery of people because of his relationship with Carol...but he was lying about it when he made the comment to prop?

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 10:20:06 PM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

In fact, it was those conversations that caused the last part of my statement...

Stop lying, Jeff!! Can't you tell a single story how it really happened?!? Jeez!

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 10:42:30 PM

Amaros

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

I think Jeff is in error if he thinks anybody is questioning his relationship

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

There are definitely people who are going to be "affronted" by it...

Next time, try mixing in a few more paragraphs between your blatant contradictions.

Jeff told a short story of people in his life being affronted by his dynamic with Carol. You effectively call him a liar. You repeat the same sentiment above in the first quotation, with different wording.

And then you follow it up by the admission that people can be affronted by TPE.

So...what you're essentially saying is that you think Jeff could indeed suffer the affrontery of people because of his relationship with Carol...but he was lying about it when he made the comment to prop?

So you wanna play too? I never said people couldn't be affronted, why would s I say something idiotic like that? I said nobody in this thread appears to me to have been affronted, which is what was inferred in the entire exchange, DP made the inference, leadership agreed, then told his sad story.

On the contrary, the pro slavery faction appears deeply affronted by the fact that they aren't really slaves but just role playing, and are really, in reality, citizens of the United States of America with all attendant rights and privileges, which the framers of the constitution stuck their necks out for and countless men have died to ensure - sad but true, which I've tried to handle diplomatically because I could give a rats ass.

Anything else? Just admit it's subjective and I'll happily drop the entire subject without further ado. Yes It's Friday night and we both apparent;y have nothing better to do but flame each other on the internet, but something just came up.

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 10:47:17 PM

DavanKael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael
Your interpretation of what Jeff said is in error or you wouldn't be calling bullshit: he simply made a statement of what is (And, since I've spoken extensively with he and Carol, I feel comfortable asserting that).

How timely Davan. You are correct. It was a factual assertion relating to the real life couple you're thinking about. Also, you'll remember that you and I have had conversations along these same lines. In fact, it was those conversations that caused the last part of my statement...

In fact, I find myself struggling frequently to talk to other M/s people about what's going on in our marriage. I feel like we're all using the same words, but somehow we are not even remotely talking the same language.

Ring any bells? Of course, I'm not quite sure how that one came out. I never did fully decide if we were talking the same language or not. I ended up deciding you needed to get yourself a Master so that I could observe in practice, not talk about it *laughs*. So hurry up already.

Correct me if I'm referencing the wrong conversation, please, Jeff.
Yep. Folks, Jeff's the person who, upon my balking at the idea of me being in a hypothetical TPE relationship explained to me, based on talking with me and gaining an understanding of who I am and what's important to me, how he thought it entirely reasonable that under the right circumstances that I could, in fact, be quite happily in a TPE relationship.
I spend a lot of time rattling around in my skull and it's rare for someone to logic-bomb me on a personal point in a way that I didnt anticipate to the degree that I actually change my assertion regarding whether I would/could be joyously in such a situation.
That whole Master thing would be dandy, Jeff...but most of 'em just wind up wanting to submit to me! Lol! But, hey, from your fingers to the Universe's eyes: send Davan a good and worthy Master so that, among other things, Jeff can watch his theory at work. < grinning >
Oh, and Amaros...I'm never limp, clearly you need to give my profile a re-read ;>
Davan

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RE: what is TPE 24/7? - 10/2/2009 10:54:52 PM

DavanKael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Yeah, I have to admit, that suspicion has been lurking in my head also. Even our RL friends (also self-identified master/slave) have a very difficult time with what we do -- and this despite the fact that I'm all sweetness and light.. no whips and chains in my closet yet. It isn't that I DO anything to Carol... it's just the overwhelming control I exert over her life affronts them.

In fact, I find myself struggling frequently to talk to other M/s people about what's going on in our marriage. I feel like we're all using the same words, but somehow we are not even remotely talking the same language.

Sorry, I'm calling bullshit, this a strawman - you are not more "real", and nobody is "affronted" by your awesome powers of seduction, get over yourself.

That's amazing! You know the people in Jeff's life better than he does enough to properly assess if they've been affronted or not?

It's odd you like tossing a fallacy buzz word like "straw man" and then go on to make so fabulous an example of it with the use of "awesome powers of seduction" (since nowhere in anything Jeff said was he trying to woo anyone and certainly made mention of nothing other than his relationship dynamic).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

It's been largely a discussion of semantics, objective vs. subjective, this isn't a vanilla site: call her a slave a slut, a donkey fucker, I could care less.

you mean you couldn't care less.

And if you genuinely couldn't care less you would not be so suddenly wound up about a poster talking to someone else that you needed to, to use the popular adage, insert your C into their A & B conversation (and it's not the cutting into the talk that's the problem, this is a public forum after all...it's the lack of following through on the context of the conversation they were having before assuming he was try to make any kind of generally pompous comment).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

You're happy, she's happy, why the persecution complex? Somebody doesn't like it, fuck 'em.

Do you have any other marvelous tidbits of wisdom as to how other people should conduct themselves in their lives with other acquaintances and, even further, how to properly discuss those interactions in online fora according to Amaros Etiquette™?

Have I mentioned lately that you have a delightfully keen wit and a most artful way with words. :>
Listen, I'm sweetening the invite to you guys to include more of those home made enchiladas as well as the drambuie and cloves.
< hugs >
Davan

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