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RE: Feminism - 10/13/2009 7:10:31 AM   
YoursMistress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I've always thought of feminism as the removal of walls.  Women can hold almost any job a man can, and should get paid the same for equivalent education/experience. 


DarkSteven,

I'm dying to find out which job it is that they can't. (butler, perhaps?  I've never heard of a woman butler.)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Socially, they can have the option of not being submissive.  That doesn't mean that every woman has to be dominating, but that they have the option of so doing.



**contented sigh**  That's a wonderful thing.

yours




_____________________________

May your service of love a beautiful thing; want nothing else, fear nothing else and let love be free to become what love truly is. -- Hadewijch of Antwerp

As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

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RE: Feminism - 10/13/2009 8:11:20 AM   
Andalusite


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YoursMistress, I think some specific positions might want a man if the job involves being around naked guys (like in a sports locker room), and some jobs don't specify gender, but do have height and strength requirements that most women can't meet. Some guys are outright disallowed for a lot of jobs (hooters server, stripper, etc.), and a lot of people won't hire them for childcare.

I've played touch football at the occasional picnic, usually go to a Superbowl party at a friend's place every year, and occasionally watch it at other times. I don't view it as degrading, but it's not something I have a strong interest in, either. Generally speaking, I prefer watching gymnastics and figure skating.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 10/13/2009 8:15:19 AM >

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RE: Feminism - 10/13/2009 8:13:26 AM   
DemonKia


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Oh, Peon, you don't know how much it tickles me to get corrected by a guy on feminist stuff . . .. . . I like a guy who can do more-feminist-than-thou . . . . . . .



& I blame Bowie for the suffragette thing, he warped my mind many years ago . .. .. .

Oh don't lean on me man,
Cause you can't afford the ticket
I'm back from Suffragette City


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Reformist feminists (called suffragists in polite circles these days, Kia, tut!  'Suffragette' is diminutive and they were no milksops!), radical feminists (separatists being one form), socialist feminists, Marxist feminists, anarchofeminists, conservative feminists, ecofeminists, post-feminists . . .  Lotsa them.  Very, very broad church.  Feminism is about enabling women to be and do what they can be and want to do - including, if they so desire, watching absurd men running about chasing a misshapen ball and dressed like Buzz Lightyear.


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RE: Feminism - 10/13/2009 10:20:38 AM   
cherrytvsissy


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As a sissy I have a slightly unique view on this subject. Yes, I like football, but I also like watching things like Project Runway (even through I find the people on it mostly annoying and insipid). But, my main view of Feminism is different than just football vs. frou-frou.

Feminism has been my liberation and the thing that has given breath and fullness to my being. Growing up in a world that always said I should think, feel and like a predetermined list of things based on my genitalia, when so much in my heart, my mind, my soul and my guts constantly told me I loved and even needed, (sometimes desperately), things from "opposite" list, (separated and condemned from me) was emotional and mental torture. Self doubt and loathing, guilt and shame from every social, religious, family, legal and intimate source, made me feel like a planet spinning uncontrollably in the wrong direction. Nothing made sense, nothing fit, yet the desire, the necessity, to cross gender lines was undeniable.

There is a book, "Girlfriend: Men. Women and Drag," (I think I have it right) by a woman, Holly Burbach (I hope I have that right, too), that finally made sense of everything for me. The author is a Feminist and the book is less about transgenderism than sexism. Simply put, she concludes, and illustrates, that the sin of being transgendered (in any and all of its manifestations), is no more than being an auxiliary to the sin of being female. Somehow, worldwide, there is a notion that being female is inferior to being male. It is not even so much a concept that males are superior as the idea, and sadly the practice, that females are somehow lesser humans. Given this often unspoken, all be it universal notion; the one thing that would immediately call it a lie would be the admission by some penile privileged persons that being feminized is somehow, not only more attractive, but unquestionably desirable. Heresy! Insanity! Blasphemy! Perversion!

I finally realized my conflict was not in being a male while wanting to be feminized, but rather in being a category of female and being diminished and degraded for that offense. I rejected terms like crossdresser and transvestite as moons in the orbits of a male planet and identified simply as a sissy, a moon in orbit of a female planet. As the cliché goes, "it’s better to hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren’t."

Feminism has freed me to accept myself. Freed me to say I’d rather you hate me for being female, than love me for being male. I accept myself, I rejoice in who I am and I thank the Almighty for this gift She has given me. I thank Feminist and Feminism for freeing me, and giving me the truth to live fully, and to finally be happy.

And, as for football, it really has nothing to with Feminism either way.

" How brave men have been in destruction. How brave women have been in survival."
~ Pamela Dugdale ~


"A man's got to do what a man's got to do. A woman must do what he can't."
~ Rhonda Hansome ~

"Whatever women must do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily, this is not difficult."
~ Charlotte Whitton ~


"Women know that the best things in life are free. Caring, loving, understanding, supporting and comforting. All the things they give daily, continually, without asking for anything in return."
~ Linda Macfarlane ~

" No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
~ Eleanor Roosevelt ~


_____________________________

"The reward for conformity is that everyone likes you but yourself." ~ Rita Mae Brown ~

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RE: Feminism - 10/13/2009 10:31:59 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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I dislike football.  I enjoy hockey, baseball, and golf.  I also love watching cheerleaders.  (That movie Drumline...omg!)  If there had been a Playboy club in Detroit when I was young and beautiful, I would have gone to work there.  My body, my beauty, to exploit as *I* choose.    (no, I was never a cheerleader, I cannot do a cartwheel!)

And, that's the real core issue of feminism, freedom of CHOICE.  A woman should be able to choose to be a housewife, or an astronaut.  SHE SHOULD ALSO BE PAID THE SAME AS A MAN DOING THAT SAME JOB.  Amazing concept, equal work for equal pay!! 

*MOST* women are never going to be longshoremen, or merchant marines.  *MOST* men are never going to be preschool teachers.  Big deal.  

_____________________________

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RE: Feminism - 10/13/2009 10:41:28 AM   
DemonKia


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lol

LadyHib, I was thinkin' 'bout this thread & having that sarcastic thought: "Does this mean I can't like skateboarding, as a feminist?" Cuz it's mostly guys (lots of sports are). That's one of the reasons I like skateboarding, lol . . . .

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RE: Feminism - 10/13/2009 10:43:37 AM   
PeonForHer


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DarkSteven,

I'm dying to find out which job it is that they can't. (butler, perhaps?  I've never heard of a woman butler.)

 
Sumo wrestling?



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RE: Feminism - 10/13/2009 10:43:57 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Can you believe that skateboarding was ILLEGAL in the town I grew up in ?  As were arcades!  So I never learned to skate, and there is no way I could deal now.

I love extreme sports! 

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



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RE: Feminism - 10/13/2009 11:04:37 AM   
DemonKia


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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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lol

It's remarkably repressed . ... . In our quaint little municipality they have one of those cute downtowns, adjacent to the state college campus. & it's illegal to rollerblade or skateboard on the sidewalks or streets for a 5 by 5 block section; it's also a main thoroughfare / bottleneck from one side of town to the other, which makes it a pain if one uses blade or deck to get around . . . .

I'm cool with the sidewalk part, but the street part is the irksome bit, especially on blades. With the deck it's much easier to comply with that bit of silliness ... .

However, I do not get to blame my naughty-naughty skateboarding ticket (2001-ish?) on that more utilitarian consideration, rather on forgetting about that law & participating in a Critical Mass -- oops . . . . It's okay, tho', that definitely qualifies as a legal infraction I can be proud of . . . . . .

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RE: Feminism - 10/13/2009 11:05:51 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Skateboards as civil disobedience?  Get me some duct tape and count me IN!

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RE: Feminism - 10/13/2009 12:04:56 PM   
ShaktiSama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YoursMistress

DarkSteven,

I'm dying to find out which job it is that they can't. (butler, perhaps?  I've never heard of a woman butler.)


There are a few.  Sperm donor, for example.  And Playgirl model.

As the question of why "Cheerleaders are a sexist institution"--I think it has something to do with how the boys on the field all have NAMES on their jerseys which the announcer MENTIONS when they play their game well, and how if they are good players they are drowned under OPPORTUNITIES for a free college education, possibly followed by enormous fame, fortune, and public exposure and adulation.  Meanwhile the girls have no names and numbers, few if any college scholarships associated with this use of their athletic potential, and, if they become professional cheerleaders, opportunities and wages that are worse than pathetic in comparison to the men.

This irks me as a feminist, mostly because I see the athletic potential of young women being drained down a channel which is not ONLY hypersexualized and exploitive, but an economic and social dead end.  Meanwhile the boys in the analogous state of athletic ability and "beauty" are in line for enormous rewards, even if they don't make it to the pros.

I think calling this situation a valid "choice" when no other option or choice is available is...dubious.  Personally, I'll consider the situation balanced when I see the sexy male cheerleaders in skimpy outfits cheering for women's sports...until then I'm just going to remain grumpy on the subject.  But, I must stress, not grumpy enough to do anything but ignore football on 364 days of the year, except in those specific instances where football interferes with my life--like when the hordes of orange-clad cultists used to descend on the university district of my alma mater and clog every street and freeway for miles around because they were making a "home game" pilgrimage to the stadium.



< Message edited by ShaktiSama -- 10/13/2009 12:19:42 PM >


_____________________________

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-- Robert A. Heinlein

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RE: Feminism - 10/13/2009 1:45:27 PM   
Wheldrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

DarkSteven,

I'm dying to find out which job it is that they can't. (butler, perhaps?  I've never heard of a woman butler.)

 
Sumo wrestling?




http://www.fscclub.com/history/sumo-hist-e.shtml

And yes, of course women should feel free to enjoy football. As a man, I certainly feel free to be completely uninterested in it, but that's just me.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
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RE: Feminism - 10/13/2009 2:39:57 PM   
DemonKia


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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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FR, after continuing

Erk, rumination is necessary for my brain function.

Women's basketball.

How would women's basketball have come into existence without feminist activism & Title IX? Women's basketball is one of the 'successes' of the women's movement with regard to equalizing women's participation in sports, & it becoming relatively commercially succesful . ..

I'm not much on major league sports but I'd pay cash to go see a women's basketball game. Basketball is relatively fast & exciting, & that would be fun. We have a good pro team down the road in Sacramento, the Monarchs, but I've yet to put together a road trip; one of these days . . .

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RE: Feminism - 10/13/2009 2:55:23 PM   
PeonForHer


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Similarly, if it weren't for feminism, I'd never have met a female hooker.  Yup, for those who don't know, it really is a position in a rugby team.  ("Get the jokes over with", she sighed, right after telling me.)

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RE: Feminism - 10/14/2009 3:46:34 PM   
drizzt87


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I'm curious to see how the audience here will respond to Women in the Marines, we have our own opinions due to the majority who ruins the reputation of the few with self-respect. Many of ours became pregnant or carry the reputation of being "premisquis" -sp. Do any of the feminists here believe they should be allowed in the infantry lines. I have seen women soldiers as Air gunners but its rare to see the Military really use women in the same places that a guy would be at. We dropped our female Marine once we landed in country since many small bases did not allow women even on due to billeting requirements...

Just some food for thought on the matter and I want to make it know that I'm pretty unbiased on this topic but do have my personal opinions having served with them in both deployments.

-Daniel

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RE: Feminism - 10/14/2009 3:50:38 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: drizzt87

I'm curious to see how the audience here will respond to Women in the Marines, we have our own opinions due to the majority who ruins the reputation of the few with self-respect. Many of ours became pregnant or carry the reputation of being "premisquis" -sp. Do any of the feminists here believe they should be allowed in the infantry lines. I have seen women soldiers as Air gunners but its rare to see the Military really use women in the same places that a guy would be at. We dropped our female Marine once we landed in country since many small bases did not allow women even on due to billeting requirements...

Just some food for thought on the matter and I want to make it know that I'm pretty unbiased on this topic but do have my personal opinions having served with them in both deployments.

-Daniel


What about the premise that marines are stupid male jar heads........that cannot spell words like promiscuous?


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Feminism - 10/14/2009 3:56:53 PM   
subtlebutterfly


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always as subtle

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RE: Feminism - 10/14/2009 4:04:48 PM   
LaTigresse


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Hey, my 30 yo son is still mad at me because I was "rude" to him when I told him to quit displaying all the worst traits of both his parents. And that was almost two months ago. So yeah, subtle has never been my strong point.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 10/14/2009 4:06:48 PM >


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Feminism - 10/14/2009 4:12:18 PM   
subtlebutterfly


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HAHAHA wow.... ya sound like my mom..parents must take courses or something to learn all the catch phrases they can drive their kids nuts with.


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RE: Feminism - 10/14/2009 4:16:46 PM   
LaTigresse


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Yeah, well he may be mad but he is still too intimidated by the rude One, to face me or even talk to me on the phone.

The chicken shit.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 10/14/2009 4:17:07 PM >


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to subtlebutterfly)
Profile   Post #: 40
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