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RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 9:10:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

FACT: Both subs and slaves on these boards have stated they have left their respective Tops, Masters, Doms/Dommes, Owners, or whatever from time for whatever reason; which means... <get ready for this>... EVERYONE HAS A CHOICE... PRE AND POST ENSLAVEMENT AND/OR OWNERSHIP!!!

and we know everything written in this environment is wholly authentic and bear no signs of fabrication. plus we have the luxury of having a large population of those residing in relationships of this nature where enslavement is the goal of both parties. yes, i see the numbers are staggering.

quote:

Seriously... you're actually stating that someone who, under the guise of BDSM and who self-identifies as a "slave", has NO CHOICE to EVER leave once they've agreed to be owned. You're seriously going to take this position?!!

are you bothered by the idea that there are some people that take this line and live with the consequences? would this imply that merely because something seems unthinkable in your mind that it is nonexistent to all, or would the correct statement be that it isn't part of your reality but could be very real to someone else?

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 9:21:01 AM

Posts: 11766
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quote:

...Question is do any other TPE slaves sometime wish they were not slave?...

not only no, but heeelllllllllll no! being His slave is the most fulfilling experience this slave has ever been a part of. He really seems to dig it, too!!!

quote:

...i would like to know what you miss about your life before you became a slave...

nothing.
not maintaining the country home or the endless volunteering or teaching and taking care of other people's kids or the loneliness or the emptiness or the pressure/frustration of being both Mom&Dad...did this slave happen to mention the loneliness?...

quote:

...Ever been sleeping on the floor and wish you could be in a nice warm bed?...

the only times this slave had to sleep on the floor was before becoming a slave. Master wants her with Him in His nice warm bed.

quote:

...Ever wish you could cum anytime you wanted?...

no. He enjoys very much having the authority over this slave's non-spontaneous orgasms...why would this slave wish Him to have less joy?

quote:

Ever wish you could pee without permission?

no. he enjoys it very much that this slave asks...again, why would she wish Him to have LESS joy?

(in reply to slaveyslave)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 10:02:31 AM

sleazybutterfly

Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
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In all honesty, I wish I were never not a slave.

What I mean is, in my heart I have always been a slave, it's how I went to my former Master. After a bit of time we got married and in the scheme of things, being probably laziness on both of our parts, we lost that dynamic. I didn't think he really wanted it anymore, he didn't think I did. We both struggled in many ways..he thought I kept changing my mind, I just had a lot going on and when I did try to bring it up, he didn't realize what I was saying. I never did NOT want to be his slave, I just didn't know if I wanted the same things he did or not, or if he wanted to even mess with me anymore.

Now, it's ended. There has been too much said and done to try again, so now we are parting ways. Now I just want to be the slave I always have been, but it's too late for us. So I am moving on and so is he. I think it will be a long while before I do any of this again, but I also don't feel I can totally walk away. There is something in me that keeps me knowing this is the life for me, it just wasn't with him.

I can't imagine not being a slave at this point in my life, I am just a slave that is unowned for the moment. The me inside is still the same.

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 10:27:12 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Life evolves and there is not a thing I miss or would change. If I felt I wanted change, then the relationship would be over anyway. Life is too short to concentrate on the whatifs, pointless wishes and havedones.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to slaveyslave)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 11:41:29 AM

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Joined: 7/25/2009
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sub? slave? whatever? i kind of thought i was getting the hang of all this ...i want to serve a Master. Be all that He wants and needs. Some Doms have said they are looking for a sub. Some have told me they are looking for a slave. And some of Them have defined both exactly the same way. Imagine that????

(in reply to DarkSteven)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 12:52:15 PM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
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what young girl in her right mind would say "when i grow up i wanna be some mans slave" ?

(in reply to slaveyslave)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 12:56:26 PM

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Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

what young girl in her right mind would say "when i grow up i wanna be some mans slave" ?

what young girl in her right mind would say "when i grow up I wanna have one of those funny looking things on mens fronts stuck up in me"?

Well, apparently lots of 'em, they're fuckin' nuts, enjoy it, roll with it, deal with it, live it.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to osf)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 1:05:02 PM

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IdiotMale

It would appear that many on this site still don't understand the difference between a slave and a sub.There is no romance and cuddling and sleeping in the same bed etc etc with a slave.

What you are describing would strictly be "objectified property".

As far as my slave would be concerned, there would be what I damned well pleased there would be...even cuddling and romance.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to IdiotMale)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 1:53:17 PM

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Joined: 9/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

what young girl in her right mind would say "when i grow up i wanna be some mans slave" ?

What young girl doesn't say "When I grow up I want a man to sweep me off my feet and take care of me for the rest of my life"?

(in reply to osf)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 1:55:50 PM

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

FACT: Both subs and slaves on these boards have stated they have left their respective Tops, Masters, Doms/Dommes, Owners, or whatever from time for whatever reason; which means... <get ready for this>... EVERYONE HAS A CHOICE... PRE AND POST ENSLAVEMENT AND/OR OWNERSHIP!!!

Fact: Some slaves stay in relationships and receive what many say is abuse, but they remain. Some slaves get angry, stomp their feet, pack their bags, walk do the door, and then fall in a heap crying because they do not have permission to leave.

Fact: Not everyone is the same, no matter what narrow view you may wish to have and try to impose.

quote:

Thus, your position, which apparently disagrees that slaves still have a choice to leave following enslavement or ownership, has clearly been proven WRONG time and time and time and time again through R-E-A-L-I-T-Y. Your fantasy doesn't discount reality; which has proven your position MORE than wrong. Any slave can leave anytime, and many do. That's a FACT.

No it has shown itself to be true in at least two other slaves I have owned. If it makes your small and narrow mind feel better to call my reality a fantasy, that is a psychological issue you must deal with. Just because you have not yet ran into that level of surrender, and internal enslavement does not mean it does not exist.

quote:

If you're so sure that slaves can't leave following enslavement, then can I look forward to any future posts you may make to a slave that is not happy in their dynamic stating, "You're a slave, so you better find a way to be happy because you KNOW you can't leave -- not ever!!!" Is that what we can expect to read from you? Because that's exactly what you're stating here by disagreeing that a slave still has a CHOICE to leave, if they so desire.

I never said slaves as an absolute. that was you deary. I said that there are some that would not leave, no matter what, and they exist. I know at least four that are that way, and have had situations that have tested it, though they were not intended as a test. No the choice is not there, when expressed in an irrational and emotional state. Instead she will find herself restrained, and then after a short period of time, if she feels the same way, I will release her.

quote:

Seriously... you're actually stating that someone who, under the guise of BDSM and who self-identifies as a "slave", has NO CHOICE to EVER leave once they've agreed to be owned. You're seriously going to take this position?!!

Some may technically have that choice, but not the self determination to make it. Yeah that is my position. Yes I am familiar with internal enslavement, seen it in effect.

Your large font and bolded statements reminds me of someone stomping their foot and pitching a fit.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 2:12:06 PM

Posts: 3991
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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

FACT: Both subs and slaves on these boards have stated they have left their respective Tops, Masters, Doms/Dommes, Owners, or whatever from time for whatever reason; which means... <get ready for this>... EVERYONE HAS A CHOICE... PRE AND POST ENSLAVEMENT AND/OR OWNERSHIP!!!

and we know everything written in this environment is wholly authentic and bear no signs of fabrication. plus we have the luxury of having a large population of those residing in relationships of this nature where enslavement is the goal of both parties. yes, i see the numbers are staggering.

1. Common sense (and consent), rather than "fabrication" (i.e., lies) better support that a slave has a CHOICE as to whether they wish to reman owned/enslaved to another. I trust you recall THIS THREAD (by leadership527) where he'd stated his slave (Carol) was seriously questioning whether, "she wants to be a slave or not". Taking your above comments at face value, then one would have to assume this poster "fabricated" (i.e., LIED) about the events in that thread. I seriously doubt this poster was lying. Thus, this lends greater support to what I'd stated... that "Everyone has a 'choice', pre and post enslavement"; be they sub, slave, bottom, or whatever terminology bakes your biscuit, then people are just lying. This is just common sense... People begin and end relationships all the time, and the BDSM component doesn't change that. The only enslavement where one no longer has a "choice" is one of an illegal nature.

2. I disagree with your above statement that "enslavement is the goal". Rather, the more accurate is "enslavement, by mutual consent, is the goal". And if there's consent, then there's CHOICE... choice to stay, or choice to leave. So once again, "Everyone has a 'choice', pre and post enslavement".

quote:

quote:

Seriously... you're actually stating that someone who, under the guise of BDSM and who self-identifies as a "slave", has NO CHOICE to EVER leave once they've agreed to be owned. You're seriously going to take this position?!!

are you bothered by the idea that there are some people that take this line and live with the consequences? would this imply that merely because something seems unthinkable in your mind that it is nonexistent to all, or would the correct statement be that it isn't part of your reality but could be very real to someone else?

1. There's no "bother" to the "idea"; just the REALITY of one who self-identifies as a slave (under the guise of BDSM) having NO CHOICE TO LEAVE once they've become owned (for lack of better word) is impossible. Why? Because LEGALLY, one can ALWAYS leave. There is absolutely NOTHING that eternally binds one to another who does NOT wish such binds any longer. Period. Now, you can argue all you want (as you did earlier) that "if the person is exercising the choice as you've indicated it is very probable they are neither internally or externally enslaved", but HERE TOO... if post ownership/enslavement a slave does not feel "enslaved", then their owner has FAILED and said slave HAS THE CHOICE TO LEAVE AND FIND A BETTER OWNER... one where they WILL feel "enslaved". Thus, the slave has a CHOICE, just as I've repeatedly stated.

2. Has nothing to do with something seeming "unthinkable" or "nonexistant", but whether or not your apparent view of slavery (i.e., once a slave is owned, tough noogies... that's it... you have no choice to leave -- not ever) is not a plausible (or rational) REALITY. Not only because it's not a LEGAL right one can withdraw from, but because no sub/slave is going to stay in ANY dynamic they do not want to be in. Maybe their owner violated hard limits... maybe their owner misrepresented themselves... maybe their owner lied about being single/married... maybe their owner has uber body oder; it doesn't matter... said slave still has a CHOICE as to whether they CHOOSE to stick around or not. Period. People are free to twist and twirl through a maze of romanticized BDSM fantasies, but the REALITY is... EVERYONE ALWAYS HAS A CHOICE; and just slapping a collar around someone's neck, or tossing out words like "owned' or "enslaved" will never change that.

< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 10/21/2009 2:13:49 PM >

_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to porcelaine)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 2:19:53 PM

BKSir

Posts: 4037
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From: Salt Lake City, UT
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I think the big issue here, Orion, is that MSLA is thinking in absolutes, believing that if it's that way for one person, it MUST be that way for all people.

Of course the overwhelming majority have the ability to just up and walk out if they damn well please. But there are some who simply and purely do not, because they've removed that ability themselves with a mental block as it were. Physically, sure, they can probably wander right out the front door any time. Legally, yep, put on them walkin' shoes. But mentally and emotionally they have made a choice and removed their own freedom to do so.

It's like many people in abusive relationships who just can't get out of it, because they've told themselves they can't go. That's the only thing stopping them. And although that may not really seem like much, in many ways, it's everything.

Now, most people aren't going to give that choice up entirely, 100%. Of course not. But there are going to be a hand full of people out there that will. And if they're comfortable doing so, then so be it.

Perhaps though, MSLA doesn't believe it is so because they haven't seen it first hand. That would make them the type of people that, because they haven't seen Jupiter first hand, don't believe it exists either. It's got to be one of the two scenarios.

Either A: Because I like chocolate, EVERYONE likes chocolate. Or B: It doesn't exist until I've seen and done it.

Wow, absolutes are silly, ne?

< Message edited by BKSir -- 10/21/2009 2:21:51 PM >

_____________________________

We'll begin with a spin, traveling in a world of my creation. What we'll see will defy explanation.

I am the voices in your head.

BiggKatt Studios

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 2:31:36 PM

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there are most assuredly many people at many different times in their lives that do not 'want' to be slaves but in the given circumstance have no other option, the levels of white slave trade in america alone are astronomical but even in the lifestyle were (in most cases) it is consensual many girls are left with few options after being torn apart by an abusive dom and without and connections to the outside world, money, food, or shelter there are few if any option other then repeating the process thus even if someone in this lifestyle wants to get out of it they are often in a situation should the need arise, where they are unable.

(in reply to BKSir)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 2:44:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

This is just common sense... People begin and end relationships all the time, and the BDSM component doesn't change that. The only enslavement where one no longer has a "choice" is one of an illegal nature.

no, it is YOUR common sense. why you have such a hard time accepting that other people will decide what is best for them is baffling. the more i read things of this nature the more inclined i am to believe that those that decry it the loudest have difficulty doing it. whether on the dominant side or as the slave. but as you know, exceptions to the "rules" as you've stated do exist.

quote:

There's no "bother" to the "idea"; just the REALITY of one who self-identifies as a slave (under the guise of BDSM) having NO CHOICE TO LEAVE once they've become owned (for lack of better word) is impossible.

correction number one, i have never identified what i do as bdsm. but since we're making generalizations i guess you've handled my labeling as well.

as for the arguing, i don't need to do it. i talk to people living this lifestyle everyday. it is perfectly fine that you can't accept this. so many things have been debunked over time by people who didn't feel inclined to practice pack mentality and elected to find their own truths instead. i know it is a novel concept.

i must confess i do find it entertaining how an individual who bears no interest or responsibility for my well being feels within their right to not only define me but to point out where my thinking has gone astray about my ideology on slavery. with the grasp you have on the lifestyle it is a pity you aren't putting pen to paper and sharing your wisdom with everyone. i suppose i have to go back to the drawing board and discard my experiences because i clearly had it all wrong. as you've candidly illustrated in several lines of text. who knew.

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 2:46:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

What you are describing would strictly be "objectified property".

As far as my slave would be concerned, there would be what I damned well pleased there would be...even cuddling and romance.

and you said it with a straight face. i'm impressed!

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 2:46:29 PM

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhWZ7bpfQag

my final answer

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to porcelaine)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 3:00:34 PM

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

FACT: Both subs and slaves on these boards have stated they have left their respective Tops, Masters, Doms/Dommes, Owners, or whatever from time for whatever reason; which means... <get ready for this>... EVERYONE HAS A CHOICE... PRE AND POST ENSLAVEMENT AND/OR OWNERSHIP!!!

Thus, your position, which apparently disagrees that slaves still have a choice to leave following enslavement or ownership, has clearly been proven WRONG time and time and time and time again through R-E-A-L-I-T-Y. Your fantasy doesn't discount reality; which has proven your position MORE than wrong. Any slave can leave anytime, and many do. That's a FACT.

Greetings MasterSlaveLA,

Howdy!!!

quote:

May I suggest to you that you make a leap in logic with this statement?

You may suggest it... but I'd have to disagree with it.

quote:

All that is proven by the fact that some people who self-identify as "slaves" leave their "owners" is that at the very least some people are able to do so. However, this path of logic in NO way proves that all people who self-identify as "slaves" are able to do so.

QUESTION: Please provide a scenario where a slave is LEGALLY UNABLE to leave, should they decide they NO LONGER CONSENT to remain with their Owner. *Note: Lack of finances doesn't count, because anyone can always dash off to a half-way house, if need be.

quote:

On the contrary... if some people who self-identify as slaves would not be able to leave their "owner" they could never in any possible way be represented in the group that did leave their "owner".

If they stay, then they don't REALLY want to leave. Some are fine with living an unhappy life, but that simply doesn't change the fact that they have a CHOICE to leave if they TRULY wanted to. Many vanilla couples stay together in unfulfilling relationships too... but that does NOT mean they don't have a CHOICE to part if they TRULY want to.

quote:

As to my personal belief on if a self-identified "slave" can leave its "owner"...

I know that through the history of mankind, there have been many reported cases of people who have for a whole range of reasons been unable to leave their relationships

If we're citing "history" then you're referring to ILLEGAL SLAVERY, which is vastly different from CONSENSUAL SLAVERY. If you're citing a scenario such as Stockholm Syndrome, then that too has its roots in ILLEGAL SLAVERY, via an ILLEGAL ABDUCTION.

quote:

...or have felt like they were unable to leave their relationships.

FEELING they can't leave does not negate their still having a CHOICE to leave. I can FEEL like the ruler of the world, but doesn't make it so. Whether one feels they can leave or not does not change the fact that they still have a CHOICE to stay or leave.

quote:

Think about Stockholm-syndrome, or some reports of abusive relationships, arranged marriages with family pressure, low-income families where one of the spouses have no income, and so on...

Already answered about... an ILLEGAL ABDUCTION does not constitute CONSENSUAL SLAVERY. Doesn't count.

quote:

Now while in all these cases, the subject might have the legal right to make the choice to leave, there seemingly still seems to be something that keeps some "trapped" in these relationships, while in similar circumstances, other people can easily make the choice to exercise their legal right to leave. It is my suggestion that those people who do not leave, do so out of more than just the choice not to exercise their legal right. Instead, they often feel on a physiological level that they are physically unable to make that choice.

Again... FEELING a certain way does not negate anyone's CHOICE to stay or leave. Whether one CHOOSES to exercise their CHOICE to stay or leave, does not remove the existence of that choice.

quote:

Now I am not stating here that self-identified "slavery" is the same thing as an abusive relationship, I do however wish to suggest that IF it is possible that some people can be psychologically "trapped" in a certain relationship, that that same thing seemingly would be possible with other people in different relationships.

I know I'm sounding like a broken record here, but again... FEELING trapped does not remove the existence of one's CHOICE to leave. Thus, what I'd stated still holds true... EVERYONE STILL HAS A CHOICE, whether they CHOOSE to exercise that choice or not.

quote:

Self-identified "slaves" surely will always remain the legal right to leave. But at the same time, it is possible to bring certain human beings into a mindset were they feel unable to exercise their legal rights. This can happen either with a willing or unwilling subject, under the right circumstances.

Again... FEELING a certain way does not remove the existence of one's CHOICE (legal or otherwise) to leave. Thus, what I'd stated still holds true... EVERYONE STILL HAS A CHOICE, whether they CHOOSE to exercise that choice or not.

quote:

I wish you well,

Back at ya!!!

_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to ishyB)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 3:12:08 PM

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

This is just common sense... People begin and end relationships all the time, and the BDSM component doesn't change that. The only enslavement where one no longer has a "choice" is one of an illegal nature.

no, it is YOUR common sense. why you have such a hard time accepting that other people will decide what is best for them is baffling.

No, it is common sense... and what's baffling to me is you're not grasping that a CHOICE to remain (no matter what), is still a CHOICE. There was an old song by the band RUSH called "Freewill" then went, in part:

You can choose a ready guide
In some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide
You still have made a choice

Thus, if you CHOOSE to think you have NO CHOICE, you've STILL made a choice. I feel that's common sense. But feel free to agree to disagree. I have.

< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 10/21/2009 3:13:50 PM >

_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to porcelaine)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 3:22:28 PM

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit

...even in the lifestyle... many girls are left with few options... without and connections to the outside world...

Imprisonment (after the fact) is illegal, and not consensual... thus, not part of the power dynamic which, at its very foundation, is based on consent.

quote:

...money, food, or shelter there are few if any option...

Police, half-way houses, domestic abuse facilities, etc. There are always "options". A friend of mine encountered this very scenario. She waited till the idiot left, then bolted!!! Once outside, she found a phone, called a friend, they picked her up, and that was that. She made the CHOICE to leave, despite all the things you'd stated above.

_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to DerangedUnit)

RE: Do you ever wish you were not a slave - 10/21/2009 3:39:33 PM

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Joined: 10/11/2006
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You can deny it all you wish. Many people denied the Earth was round, and not the center of the universe, but it did not make it so. Many of us have seen the dynamic, and while a slave may legally have the right to leave, they do not exercise it.

I find your arguement similar to saying that since everyone in the US has the right to carry a gun, then they must all carry a gun. I suggest some more reading into Internal Enslavement, and the conditioning involved in it.

< Message edited by OrionTheWolf -- 10/21/2009 3:48:45 PM >

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

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