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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 7:39:17 AM

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Well, its useless to think of the "what-if's". That young person was the captain of his own ship, so his decision to not heed, and instead challenge, your warnings caused him the price to pay. As well as you are the captain of your own ship...and you had to protect you and yours. You did what you knew you had to do and you have the law on your side, to boot.

I'm glad your oldest son is coming. Hopefully it will give you a sense of security (somewhat), and enable you to get some rest. As some have said here, this is likely to play in your head over and over again. If you were my neighbor, I'd give you a xanax and hope it was enough to help you get to the stage of sleep.

< Message edited by Louve00 -- 12/6/2009 7:57:45 AM >

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(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 7:40:26 AM

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I also am glad that your family is safe. Only issue I have is the trigger lock thing, I don't have them, I don't use them and I think they're dangerous on a self defense weapon. Then again, your local laws may vary from mine.

You did good.

(in reply to silvermuse)

RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 7:40:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

You know I still can't help but think that if he had just put his hands up so I could see he was unarmed, it would have ended much differently.

Of that I have no doubt. You showed restraint and gave him chances to follow your orders and keep himself safe. He chose not to comply, at his peril.

You might want to go out. As soon as your name hits police report (if they release it, and even if they don't, your neighbors might mention you since it will be apparent where the police were all night), you'll probably be flooded with people who want to talk to you.

Edited for typo.

< Message edited by DomMeinCT -- 12/6/2009 7:43:23 AM >

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 7:42:55 AM

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quote:

All this still seems surreal

this is normal...it is your minds way of allowing you to ease into the trauma at your own pace.

It is also normal that you will start to second guess yourself..."Maybe he was just reaching down to pull up his pants?" (he wasn't)..."Maybe is i had waited and talked a little bit longer?" (you would be calling in dead on Monday morning) and even "I should have fired a fourth shot" (can't blame you for feeling that way).

Personally, i could not deal with what you are facing without professional help. The police dept can guide you in the right direction to a therapist who specializes in these cases. What happened can easily turn to debilitating PTSD.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 7:48:20 AM

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Well, Orion, I'm glad that you and yours are safe. And I hope that you gave the perp a needed wake up call. He may not have a violent record, but with a gun and hunting knife on his person, it was only a matter of time before he injured someone else - I'm glad that you may have prevented that.

I am a (soft) proponent of gun control, and I wish that proponents and opponents would read your post. This is the sort of thing that can happen when you have guns AND are trained in their use. Had you not known what to do and how to do it...

Good for you for demonstrating exactly what an armed citizenry is intended for.

Edited to make fun of holly for the thought of "Calling in dead".

< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 12/6/2009 7:49:45 AM >

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 7:50:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I am going to put this here as it will wind up political.

It was that fucking Levi Johnston wasn't it?

Okay, listen carefully, here's an easy out.

Tell em you heard the rotors of a helicopter and the hooves of a moose stampede before shots were fired.

That oughta do it.

chia* (the pet)

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 7:50:53 AM

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Orion,

I, too, have a had a very similiar situation as yours. The main difference being two invaders instead of one. I reacted just as you did, forced to fire at both intruders. Tragically, both young men were mortally wounded. If it hasn't happened already, then soon enough, you'l start asking yourself what you coul have done differently, instead of firing on the intruder. If at all possible, don't let yourself ask that question. You gave enough warning and were very clear on your instructions. The intruder left you absolutely no choice. You did what was necessary to protect your family. Tyring o physically engage the intruder could have very easily led to you being seriously hurt or even killed. You followed the laws of your state, and diwhat we all hope to never have to do. In my situation, one of the invaders was suicidal, from what the deputies had told me. The deputy who took my report said it was very probable that he wanted to "commit suicide by police"., meaning he wanted to be shot and killed by the police. My wife and I are thankful you and yours were not hurt, especially your son. It's people like you and I who are able to give the gun haters nightmares. I will never surrender my legally owned guns. We both have our C.C.W. permits and always carry our sidearms. We commend you on keeping a focused and clear mind on what was a terrifying experience. We both hope that your family recovers from the ordeal with no lasting trauma. As a Naval veteran Orion, Bravo Zulu to your actions in defending your family. Let the naysayers say what they will. Until they actually experience their home being invaded, they will never be able to comprehend what it is like to have ones sanctuary under seige. By all means, if you or yours need counseling or therapy, seek it out. I did, and it was extremely helpful.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 7:54:08 AM

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Orion,
I know that from our brief interactions in the past that you are a very intelligent and emotionally strong man. I am going to remind you that you do not owe anyone an explanation. Not us, not the reporters, not his family, no one.....not even that voice in your head that at about 1:30am is going to begin to try to play the 'what-if' game with you as you try to sort this out in your mind...The bottom line is: you kept your family alive and safe, and at the end of the day you did exactly what yo said you would do... You went to any length to protect your family. You are a man of your word. I have no doubts that you will get through this, as you have times in the past... I have no doubt that you have the skills, tools, and resources necessary to do what it takes to process through and move beyond this. You did the right thing, remember that. You and your family are alive and unharmed..bottom line. The reality is, if this was indeed a gang situation who knows where it would have stopped...no doubt these are to horrible of thoughts to entertain.
I know I'm not telling you anything you are not aware of, but I would feel horrible if I did not mention it here... Please remember that secondary trauma is many times just as horrible if not in the long run more so. I'm worried about your girl. Please know if there's anything at all I can do I would be honored. You are all in my prayers.
Kali

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 7:59:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
I do wonder at why you didn't call the police first thing instead of waiting so long. Having neighbors who are police, I would have expected you to call them first for help. Or aren't you on close enough terms with them to do so?

That reminds me when I worked as a secretary at the police in my country a decade ago (gosh I am getting old

), we had a supermarket opposit of us and whilst I was there I realised that the detectives there dealt with a thieve. They were talking about to get the police where I mentioned to one of them that our police department is just opposit to them...I got back to my department and told them about what was going on there and they went there but by then the person managed to escape...the police advice them to call our department straight away, instead of going for the long route via the normal public number (after all, they had our local number!)

Soon later it happened again...and again they dialed the public number instead of using our number straight away...

I don't remember anymore if they got the police on time on that occasion or not...

however, as Zeph said, you never know what you are doing into such a situation unless you actually are in that situation.

I am glad, too, for Orion and his family that the situation did not affect anyone in the family physically and agree, that this person asked for this treatment when he does not follow warnings beforehand.

Good on you that you are a light sleeper...I sleep like a stone, always did...well, at the moment only due to my nightmeds as I am not so good sleeping anymore since I moved into another country, however, overall I am not a light sleeper so I am glad you are.

Best wishes for the emotional recovery from that event and that this will never ever happen again.

Regarding political debate about guns...whilst I would not be someone who would easily want one in my house (and was glad when my grandpa had passed away, knowing that he never accidentially used his gun at granny...because that was our main concern with his alcohol problems he had, and even when it sounds gullible for some people on here but where I am from it is still quite a fairytale safe area to live in, so you should not really need one to feel safe) I don't blame anyone who has one...it was obviously good that you had one on that occassion and I think the debate would always depend for me where I would be living, if it would deemed necessary to have one or not, to feel safer at the end.

< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 12/6/2009 8:01:23 AM >

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(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 8:00:13 AM

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quote:

I am sure there will be second guessing on things to do, I have been sitting here myself and doing that, but regardless the outcome is better than what it could have been

Hi Orion,

Exactly. Remember that.

Be well and safe. Talk to friends everyday.

"High winds do not last all morning" --Lao Tzu

Tim

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 8:03:10 AM

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Good thoughts are coming your way from California, Orion.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 8:06:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00
If you were my neighbor, I'd give you a xanax and hope it was enough to help you get to the stage of sleep.

Yep, if you would even be living in my current country I would post you some of my amitriptylin to knock you out...twice I gave one of them to collagues who were in pain (as it numbns nerves and as a side effect makes you tired and sleepy) and they confirmed what I warned them about, they slept like a stone. I unfortunately need them to be able to sleep pain free in the first place *sigh*
however, when I do nightshifts now I can't take them, hence why I gave one to 2 colleagues in the past...

hope you find your sleep and comfort soon again

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(in reply to Louve00)

RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 8:18:31 AM

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My hats off to you, man – you showed more restraint than I would have (I would have shot the first time he refused to show me his hands).

Despite the fact that you were in the right it is still not an easy thing to shoot somebody (well, if you are a decent person like yourself) and there can often be delayed reaction of shock and even guilt in such a situation. Don’t be afraid to lean on your girl – and/or some other trusted friends or loved ones – and let them take some of the burden from you.

Humor also helps and on that note I would like to officially petition the powers that be (i.e. the Mods) to change your description from “Deranged” to “Resident Gunslinger.”

As for the guy you shot, well he created the situation and has nobody to blame but himself. My sympathy for him is limited, but not entirely absent. If he lives perhaps this will be a catalyst for him to examine his life and start making better choices. One can only hope.

I will pray that God brings you and yours peace during this time – and some wisdom to the idiot burglar.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 8:24:50 AM

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You are unhurt, your family is safe and the one who broke in isnt dead. I dont think there could be a better outcome than you had.
You are going to have fallout, yes, but you also have the greater confidence now that if need be you can keep yourself and your family safe no matter what it takes. They also have that confidence now.

Be well

DV

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 8:27:39 AM

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Glad you and yours are safe Orion.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 8:29:20 AM

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Orion,

Of course you did the right thing. He was dangerous, had weapons, and didn't respond to your orders. Putting it behind you is hard because you have more consideration for your actions than he did to cause them. Going shopping and doing whatever it was you planned would be the best thing to do; but in your shoes I agree - its big talk coming from someone who didn't go through it.

I suspect what you went through is going to become more common as things get progressively worse in this country. Although my 'farm-girl' beths had been around a variety of guns all her life and knows how to shot; I've never owned or shot a gun in my life; but recently acquired a 12 gauge and keep it ready to go just for situations like the one you went through.

I hope the worst is behind you. It may not be.

Your in the US. Your home invader is now the 'victim'. If he hasn't already, a lawyer will be stopping by his hospital bed. My guess is he's getting the best possible care and is no need for any Health-Care Bill.

Make sure your insurance company is aware of the situation even if you aren't making any damages claim. You're livability defense should be covered by your policy, but there is a notification requirement.

Were I an insensitive, but pragmatic, asshole; I'd say your mistake was only wounding him. But, trying to fit in the new PC culture, I'll keep those thoughts to myself.

Meanwhile, I don't like lawyers, but keep a few phone numbers handy. Contact me on the other side if you want any referrals.

(in reply to Phoenixpower)

RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 8:35:58 AM

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I'm glad to hear that you and yours are safe and well, and sorry to hear that someone was foolish enough to break into and enter your home and amazingly stupid enough not to freeze and raise his hands when being held at gunpoint. He did everything wrong and you did everything right.

I know you'll be second-guessing yourself for months and there'll be sleepless nights and, if you're like me, weird little tremors for a couple of days afterwards. It's simple to say "don't let it get to you", it's a lot tougher to do.

What I can say is this: He made his choices and they were all poor. Your made yours and they were all right. Had you acted differently, it's unlikely that things would have turned out better for him but quite possible that you or someone you love could have been hurt. Presented with a difficult and dangerous situation, you acted intelligently and decisively. Many couldn't or wouldn't.

All the best and thank you for sharing this.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 8:56:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Your in the US. Your home invader is now the 'victim'. If he hasn't already, a lawyer will be stopping by his hospital bed.

It's not as simple as "You're in the US". Laws vary from state to state. In Georgia that attorney won't do the intruder much good unless he has a malpractice suit against the doctors who treated him. Georgia law as I understand it protects the homeowner from civil retaliation so long as he is legally allowed to own the gun. There is also no duty to retreat.

Listed below are the applicable portions of the state code here:

16-3-23.
A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to prevent or terminate such other´s unlawful entry into or attack upon a habitation; however, such person is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if:
(1) The entry is made or attempted in a violent and tumultuous manner and he or she reasonably believes that the entry is attempted or made for the purpose of assaulting or offering personal violence to any person dwelling or being therein and that such force is necessary to prevent the assault or offer of personal violence;
(2) That force is used against another person who is not a member of the family or household and who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using such force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred; or
(3) The person using such force reasonably believes that the entry is made or attempted for the purpose of committing a felony therein and that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of the felony.

16-3-23.1
Article 2 of Chapter 3 of Title 16 of the Official Code of Georgia Annotated, relating to justification and excuse as a defense to certain crimes, is amended by inserting immediately following Code Section 16-3-23 a new Code section to read as follows:
"16-3-23.1.
A person who uses threats or force in accordance with Code Section 16-3-21, relating to the use of force in defense of self or others, Code Section 16-3-23, relating to the use of force in defense of a habitation, or Code Section 16-3-24, relating to the use of force in defense of property other than a habitation, has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and use force as provided in said Code sections, including deadly force."

SECTION 2.
Said article is further amended by striking in its entirety Code Section 16-3-24.2, relating to immunity from prosecution and exception, and inserting in lieu thereof the following:
"16-3-24.2.
A person who uses threats or force in accordance with Code Section 16-3-21, 16-3-23, 16-3-23.1, or 16-3-24 shall be immune from criminal prosecution therefor unless in the use of deadly force, such person utilizes a weapon the carrying or possession of which is unlawful by such person under Part 2 or 3 of Article 4 of Chapter 11 of this title."
SECTION 3.
Article 1 of Chapter 11 of Title 51 of the Official Code of Georgia Annotated, relating to general provisions relative to defense to tort actions, is amended by striking in its entirety Code Section 51-11-9, relating to immunity from civil liability for threat or use of force in defense of a habitation, and inserting in lieu thereof the following:
"51-11-9.
A person who is justified in threatening or using force against another under the provisions of Code Section 16-3-21, relating to the use of force in defense of self or others, Code Section 16-3-23, relating to the use of force in defense of a habitation, or Code Section 16-3-24, relating to the use of force in defense of property other than a habitation, has no duty to retreat from the use of such force and shall not be held liable to the person against whom the use of force was justified or to any person acting as an accomplice or assistant to such person in any civil action brought as a result of the threat or use of such force."

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 8:56:44 AM

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Good job Orion. I had a similar experience after Hurricane Andrew except the looters had the good sense to back down with a deer rifle pointed at them. Im gonna catch hell for this but Im bummed that the little shit is gonna live. Some bleeding heart Public Defender will prob get him off. at 19 with a long rap sheet, it has obviously already happened. Why wasnt the little piece of human garbage in jail?

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)

RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 9:21:19 AM

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Whenever you catch yourself fighting with the guilt or second guessing your actions, look at all of those you spoke of in an earlier post. How many of them did you save by your actions? Most likely you saved everyone in the house from harm or even death. If more homeowners were trained to defend their homes in the manner that you did, the world would be safer.

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