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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 3:41:12 PM

stef

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I'm sorry that you were put in the position where you had to act as you did and grateful that you came out of it unscathed. I hope to $diety I'm never put into the position to have to send my 165gr. Gold Dots downrange like that but I'm glad to have the right to do so if I ever fear for my life or the lives of my loved ones.

Have a happy holiday knowing that you and yours are safe.

~stef

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 3:52:26 PM

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I like rotties, Orion, but any decent sized dog is both an alarm and a strong deterrent. My old wolf-hybrid left us over the summer, but he seems to have taught the lab-mutt a few things. Check on your homeowners insurance before spending money on a guard dog. Rottweilers are on a lot of "no" lists, but Dobermans are back in the good graces.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 4:06:38 PM

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quote:

If you don't have a gun the criminal doesn't either.

Yep...if Orion was armed with a rolling pin there is no doubt the gun the intruder had in his pocket would have disintegrated into fairy dust.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 4:10:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rockspider

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: rockspider
Another story I read in the news down there countless times was: Gun owner hears something puzzle in his house at some ungodly hour. Grabs gun and go to investigate. In the dark he sees some shadowy figure moving towards him and fires at it. Gets the light on and finds his 18 year old son, who tried to sneak in, dead in front of him. Also every weeks brought a new story of someone who in play and stupidity killed or maimed someone. Or the countless guys, when they became unemployed or bankrupt, shot kids, wife and them self.

We get the "countless" argument here, too. The facts are that these incidents can indeed be counted and they represent a fractionally small amount when factored per capita or even per gun owner or number of guns owned. Sad stories nonetheless but they aren't anywhere near the carnage that the gun control advocates would make them out to be.

I shall not make me an expert on american figures. But in South Africa the amount of perbs shot by private gunowners was lower that that of the mistaken shot was. It was and probably still is a sad fact. Having a gun is not the same as knowing when to use it. Even you receive the right training it still is a problem. You can take the absolute professionals as such. The troops figthing in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are hearing report after report of our guys caught in friendly fire as it is called. The same with killings of inocent civilians. I am not blaming the troops for it. As a matter of fact it was much worse in previous wars. Just pointing out if those guys gets it wrong so often, how do you think Joe Plumber is when he runs around with one and suddenly have to take that split second decision to fire or not. I am also aware of the argument "Outlaw guns and only outlaws have them" The issue is a horrible one in a country where you already have so many guns in the population. But my argument still stands. More, much more police. We need to win this fight for our countries back from the criminals. They shouldn't own our streets. I have been a tradesman all my life. When you go to do a job bring a hammer big enough. When you are going to stop the criminals have enough cops to do the job. None of us wish to live in a fortress behind barbed wire with a gun on the bedside table, behind steel gates, tre big dogs and a private security company running the streets. Believe i have tried. The government in South Africa starved the police force and the criminals took the streets. It is still the murder capital of the world. And you with your peashooter can do nothing the day you face 5 of them with an AK 47.

With all due respect none of that addresses the comment I made. I understand that you favor gun control and that is your right to hold that opinion. South Africa may be a war zone. I really wouldn't know and could care even less. I was merely commenting that the argument so often made by gun control advocates here in the USA that gun violence is at epidemic proportions really doesn't hold water.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 4:23:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I like rotties, Orion, but any decent sized dog is both an alarm and a strong deterrent...

A long time ago I had a pair of Maine Coon cats, 18-pound range. Once, a friend of mine tried to enter my apartment when I wasn't there. He had forgotten something, and I gave him the key so he could go get it while I waited. He never returned.

Finally, I walked back to the apartment to find out what the fuck. As I entered the hallway, I could see that the door was wide open. When I got a little closer, I heard a low growl coming from inside that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up and my blood run cold. I found my friend standing exactly one step inside, frozen except for his shaking, with Smoke, the larger of the two cats, crouched in a lunge position directly in front of him.

I told Smoke it was okay, and he cheerily trotted back to the kitchen for a snack after a hard morning's work. My friend took a little longer to calm down.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/6/2009 4:31:28 PM >

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 4:35:38 PM

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I'm glad your family is safe and I have no criticism whatsoever to send your way, Orion. You protected your family and you gave the intruder plenty of warnings. He took his chances when he broke into an occupied dwelling. He knew what could happen and he came armed. He lost and wound up being the one hurt. Oh well, maybe he'll think twice before invading someone else's home. Hope you all are well and that this doesn't make you inordinately paranoid or angry. It happened and you took care of business. Good for you............luci

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 4:38:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Really PS? possession of an illegal firearm, minimum sentence? On top of using it? On top of attempted murder? The Courts here would take a very dim view of these circumstances.

E

So show me some evidence. The only high profile case I can recall recently is Tony Martin, who I mentioned.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 4:39:27 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I like rotties, Orion, but any decent sized dog is both an alarm and a strong deterrent...

A long time ago I had a pair of Maine Coon cats, 18-pound range. Once, a friend of mine tried to enter my apartment when I wasn't there. He had forgotten something, and I gave him the key so he could go get it while I waited. He never returned.

You know, that was a great story. But if for some reason, you'd had some kind of computer problem and the post was cut off right there, it would have made an absolutely terrific story!

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 4:43:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Orion, I have always been against gun ownership in the UK. I realise it is different in the US due to some people living miles from nowhere.

I don't understand what relevance that would have. By far, most burglaries and home invasions happen in metropolitan areas, just minutes from the nearest police station. Even if Orion lived right across the street from a police station, he still had an armed intruder in his house, right there, right now. Miles from nowhere or in the middle of the city, he still needed that firearm to defend himself at that instant.

I take your point, but over here gun crime is relatively rare, more so in domestic burglaries. Police response times in the cities are pretty good, although some gun crime does occur. Even so, almost all home owners here are happy to be unarmed. Most gun crime here takes place between criminal gangs.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 4:46:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

Politesub,
I encourage people to think twice before owning a gun, because gun ownership is a responsibility that should not be taken lightly. Every gun owner I personally know is incredibly responsible, but, one is always reading about the other kind.
However, making gun ownership illeagal is another thing entirely. No facist goverment has everexisted on Earth, since the advent of armory, but that their first action was to collect all the guns. In the U.S., we have a history of pulling out our guns and, as a citizenry, seperating ourselves from your goverment. I relize that the citizenry can no longer win against the goverment, who owns much bigger, badder weapons, in todays world, than simple guns. However, as long as there are gun owners with the 'you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hands' attitude, the U.S. will remain, a very difficult nation to subjegate.

Just as well I didnt suggest making ownership illegal then.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 4:48:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I like rotties, Orion, but any decent sized dog is both an alarm and a strong deterrent...

A long time ago I had a pair of Maine Coon cats, 18-pound range. Once, a friend of mine tried to enter my apartment when I wasn't there. He had forgotten something, and I gave him the key so he could go get it while I waited. He never returned.

You know, that was a great story. But if for some reason, you'd had some kind of computer problem and the post was cut off right there, it would have made an absolutely terrific story!

LOL

I just Googled them, some big ass critters.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 5:26:25 PM

cpK69

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My condolences to you, for the pain caused by your losses; May you find peace in short order, and with sound mind.

My best,

Edited for rephrase.

Kim (once a proud owner of a Ruger GP 100 .357/.38)

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 12/6/2009 6:13:12 PM >

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 5:27:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Most gun crime here takes place between criminal gangs.

Here our gangs like to set up 'initiations' where they target random civilians for no reason other than they are in a certain place at a certain time, as in the case with the OP.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 6:08:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I am going to put this here as it will wind up political.

Orion, you were right. It did, and fairly quickly, too. However, it's Sunday night and things are slow so what the heck...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain
I'm not interested in learning how to use a gun because I have other things to do. I don't like risking my life because somebody wants to steal things from my garage.

That's the beauty of freedom, you don't have to. You can make the choice to trust in the goodness of humanity or the effectiveness of your local law enforcement. However, as a suggestion - not everyone who commits a crime is looking to steal. Some criminals are violent. What if instead of a 19 year-old thief it had been an armed 30 year-old sociopath?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain
I still don't want or like people having guns.

Ah. This is where things come unstuck. That's not up to you. The whole point of "rights" is that you don't get to choose for other people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain
Additionally, the police could have handled what you did. You said yourself they were there in three minutes.

In my real-life experience, the police respond amazingly faster to "shots fired" than they do to "possible breaking and entering". Three minutes is also a superb response-time. Several years ago, I had my girlfriend at the time call 911 and report shots fired and it took about ten minutes for the squad car to show up. I, personally, wouldn't rely solely on law enforcement. Even a highly capable,well-trained, and fully staffed and funded police department can't get there in time to save you if you get attacked.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rockspider
Sleeping safe in your bed is a human right, but you are not safe, when your neighbor is shooting at shadows out of his window. It is a far cry from reality that all gun owners act as calm and collected as the OP.

Home accidents with firearms are statistically very rare. Incidents of violence with a legally purchased handgun are also very rare. To repeat the old saw, there are thousands of deadly risks you blithely accept every day that are much more likely to occur than being shot with a legally owned firearm.

In my entire life I have never once had an issue with a legal gun-owner. Twice I've had incidents with armed criminals. Both times I was glad I owned a firearm.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske
I encourage people to think twice before owning a gun, because gun ownership is a responsibility that should not be taken lightly. Every gun owner I personally know is incredibly responsible, but, one is always reading about the other kind.

Way back when, I and a bunch of my friends decided to get handgun licenses. We spent a long time discussing responsibility and safety. Here in New York, when you get a license, you are required to read through the laws on the use of deadly force and sign that you have read and understood them. We spent (and still sometimes do spend) a fair amount of time discussing what is and is not justified and when you should and when you should not be using a gun. It was made very clear to all of us that owning a firearm is a serious responsibility and every gun-owner I personally know treats it that way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
I don't understand what relevance that would have. By far, most burglaries and home invasions happen in metropolitan areas, just minutes from the nearest police station.

Very true. One of the two incidents in my life happened in a very "good" neighborhood with almost no crime on a quiet dead-end street. It seems a bunch of drug dealers decided this was the perfect neighborhood to execute someone since it was so quiet and the police weren't very alert. They pushed the guy out of their car and shot him seven times with a 9 mm.

Thinking you live somewhere safe, where things like that "just don't happen" isn't a realistic assessment unless you happen to have something like the Kennedy compound.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
15 pellets of OO buckshot from 10 feet away would probably have been more than any emergency room staff could have overcome.

Most likely, I would've used the shotgun, too. The buckshot generally doesn't go through walls so there's less risk to the neighbors. It would probably make a mess, though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rockspider
And you with your peashooter can do nothing the day you face 5 of them with an AK 47.

Just to be silly...

In the unlikely event I had my .45 in hand and was up against 5 guys with AK-47s I wouldn't even attempt to throw down. I know what my limitations are. Historically however there have been some guys who, armed with a revolver, could probably have killed all five of them and walked away unscathed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Everyone in the house has settled down quite a bit, and I will be fine after a few days.

Glad to hear it. Take it easy for a few days and just unwind. I hope that from here everything is smooth sailing.

< Message edited by InvisibleBlack -- 12/6/2009 6:11:57 PM >

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 6:29:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45
Here our gangs like to set up 'initiations' where they target random civilians for no reason other than they are in a certain place at a certain time, as in the case with the OP.

So far as I know, that is largely an urban myth. Generally, gangs shoot for a reason, either revenge or business.

Snopes.com has a good catalogue of gang initiation rumors.

http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=gang+initiation&sp-a=00062d45-sp00000000&sp-advanced=1&sp-p=all&sp-w-control=1&sp-w=alike&sp-date-range=-1&sp-x=any&sp-c=100&sp-m=1&sp-s=0

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 6:56:05 PM

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I'm one of those liberal democrats that people don't understand. I'm pro-choice, believe in gay marriage, etc. etc. etc. But one thing that I'm with the conservatives 100% is that "Gun Control" is being able to hit your target and I'll be damned if I give up mine so that Hillary can sleep better at night. Thank you for being yet another person who has PROVEN that the second ammendment is a right that should never be taken away.

On a personal not, however, I'm very sorry that you and your family had to go through this. I hope this guy pulls through and pays for the anguish that you all have suffered and will no doubt be troubled by in the weeks and months to come.

Anne

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 6:58:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex
So far as I know, that is largely an urban myth. Generally, gangs shoot for a reason, either revenge or business.

Snopes.com has a good catalogue of gang initiation rumors.

Well let's ask Orion, shall we? Since the cops already confirmed that this is what this instance was.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
He was at the wrong address, street name was incorrect but house number wasn't, it was part of a gang initiation, and they will likely offer him a deal if he gives up the people that gave him the pistol, and burglary tools, and it points to someone higher up in the gang.

You can use snopes all you like. I prefer to use the news agencies as my informative sources. Here in Dallas, we had a lady get a knock at her door. She opened it....BLAM!!!.....dead. It was also a part of a gang initiation, the cops later confirmed. Myth my ass.

< Message edited by Loki45 -- 12/6/2009 6:59:02 PM >

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 6:59:38 PM

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That may well be, but the two types of intiations is usually blood in or blood out. Either you spill someone elses blood or have yours spilled. This is supposed to show your resolve and heart for the gang.

There are some books by Lou Savelli that reveals a lot of the facts about gang culture.

Other Forms of Initiation

Armed robbery - inductee(s) commit the crime of armed robbery and frequently shoot the victim(s) for no reason.

Drive-by shooting

Assault on an innocent victim

Rape an innocent victim

Blessed In - Occasionally, a prospective gang member will not have to endure any of the normal gang initiation rituals. He or she may be "blessed in." This may be the result of the prospects reputation as one who is worthy of gang membership or he may be a family member of a gang member who has vouched for his worthiness and loyalty.

"Sex in" - Female inductees are frequently "sexed in" by having intercourse with multiple members of the gang. This is sometimes used in lieu of being beaten in. It has been reported that females, on occasion, have been required to consent to sex with a person known to be HIV positive.

Murder - The inductee is required to kill an innocent victim, a rival gang member, or even a police officer.
HOAXES

The Secret Language of Sneakers

Flash Your Headlights and Die

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Gangs in Round Rock, Texas

Gangs slashing ladies ankles

Killers hiding in backseat

Gang initiates in the Memphis (TN) and DeSoto areas must kill a woman and small child in a Wal-Mart

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 7:00:20 PM

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quote:

Not to diminish what everyone else has said, but my hat is off to you for that post.

Thanks.

Does this mean you're joining my "Resident Gunslinger" petition?

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RE: Defended my home - 12/6/2009 7:00:25 PM

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Nope it must be the name "Anne" because I am a lifelong liberal, but I am also a pro gun person, and I don't discuss it with my other liberal friends, which is okay by me. Not all liberals are anti-gun. Thank god.

.

Another Annie Oakley.

.

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